Griz vs. Carroll

BozoneCat · Post by **BozoneCat** » Tue Nov 15, 2005 11:07 pm

GFGriz wrote:And not intending this to be smack (really), State without Lulay just isn't that much of a threat for humiliating Carroll. Again, remember that before Lulay, Central Washington said the Saints played them better than State did. Carroll brings the kind of discipline to the game that State only dreams of, and only makes up with speed and size. Any way you cut it, the Saints come out the good guys. And any way the Griz or State might come out of it, they look like schmucks.

It may not be intended as smack, but your post is pure idiocy. Give me a break, the Cats would absolutely annihilate the Saints, and you damn well know it. I could care less who the all-knowing Central Washington players said was better. Do you think that maybe the Bobcats really didn't get "up" for a game against a D-II team, while it was Carroll's biggest game of the year? Still not an excuse to lose, but it probably played a part in how both teams played them.

I will agree that I wish the Cats played with the discipline the Saints exhibit, if we played with the same smarts and discipline, we'd be talking about getting tickets for Bobcat Stadium the next week.

GFGriz · Post by **GFGriz** » Tue Nov 15, 2005 11:10 pm

MaZooLaGriz wrote:
GFGriz wrote:No lose situation for the Saints.
Saints do too well and their incredible achievements now seem just obvious.

Saints do poorly and all they've done appears Little League-ish.

I just don't see that. Even if they lose, they aren't going to do so playing "poorly". So they lose the game. SO WHAT? That's the nature of the game. They've been coached too well for that. If they win, they're giant slayers. So how, exactly, is this bad for the Saints? I'm not saying the Saints would win (that's improbable at best). I'm just saying this isn't going to be anything that tarnishes them.

GFGriz · Post by **GFGriz** » Tue Nov 15, 2005 11:18 pm

BozoneCat wrote:
GFGriz wrote:And not intending this to be smack (really), State without Lulay just isn't that much of a threat for humiliating Carroll. Again, remember that before Lulay, Central Washington said the Saints played them better than State did. Carroll brings the kind of discipline to the game that State only dreams of, and only makes up with speed and size. Any way you cut it, the Saints come out the good guys. And any way the Griz or State might come out of it, they look like schmucks.
It may not be intended as smack, but your post is pure idiocy. Give me a break, the Cats would absolutely annihilate the Saints, and you damn well know it. I could care less who the all-knowing Central Washington players said was better. Do you think that maybe the Bobcats really didn't get "up" for a game against a D-II team, while it was Carroll's biggest game of the year? Still not an excuse to lose, but it probably played a part in how both teams played them.

I will agree that I wish the Cats played with the discipline the Saints exhibit, if we played with the same smarts and discipline, we'd be talking about getting tickets for Bobcat Stadium the next week.

I haven't seen anything to indicate that State without Lulay would "annihilate" Carroll. And who's to say State wouldn't treat Carroll the same way they treated Central Washington, and not get "up" against an NAIA school, and that Carroll wouldn't treat such a game as its biggest of the year. I mean, State is "up" and "down" at the strangest times, and without Lulay, anything could happen. Carroll, on the other hand, is pretty much "up" all the time. I doubt Carroll would win, but they'd look like winners even if they didn't. And State? Or the Griz? Schmucks.

BozoneCat · Post by **BozoneCat** » Tue Nov 15, 2005 11:45 pm

Oh, the Cats (or the friz) would definitely be "up" for a game against Carroll, mainly because of all the people out there who think Carroll would be competitive. I doubt that either Kramer or Hauck would intentionally run up the score in a mean way, but it would be apparent to all that it could easily happen if we wanted it to.

The matchup would be akin to CMR playing Paris Junior High, for a Great Falls analogy.

GFGriz · Post by **GFGriz** » Wed Nov 16, 2005 12:13 am

BozoneCat wrote:Oh, the Cats (or the friz) would definitely be "up" for a game against Carroll, mainly because of all the people out there who think Carroll would be competitive. I doubt that either Kramer or Hauck would intentionally run up the score in a mean way, but it would be apparent to all that it could easily happen if we wanted it to.

The matchup would be akin to CMR playing Paris Junior High, for a Great Falls analogy.

I doubt that. This entire thread is a monument to the enormous capacity of State fans for underestimation of the Saints, and the like thread over at eGriz is much the same. Your analogy simply proves my point. Again, without Lulay, it's an open question as to how the game would go, but the Saints would play with poise, discipline, determination and confidence. Maybe next year's State would have some of those qualities, but I certainly haven't seen them this year aside from Lulay. I really don't have any doubt that even if the game went to State or the Griz, Mike Van Diest's team would still gain more in admiration than the bigger teams. A team playing the game well, no matter the win or loss, is its own reward, and that's what Van Diest has turned the Saints into. They are more slight than the Griz or State, and not as swift, but in ten years Montanans will look back in awe at what the Saints, Emmert and Van Diest have done these past four years. The same people will have to read old clippings to recall what State and the Griz did during the same period. The team from Carroll can play anywhere in Montana and, victorious or not, still be recognized as winners.

Shakermaker · Post by **Shakermaker** » Wed Nov 16, 2005 4:35 am

grizband wrote:The rumor originally came from the Helena IR. My thoughts are this is a no win for Cats/Griz, and no lose for the Saints. Saints will probably make money on the game, and there is a slim chance of pulling off an upset (I won't rule anything out after NDSU in 2003). The game could hurt playoff chances for the I-AA team, as the game woudn't count towards 7 total wins.

NDSU played Montana Tech last year in Fargo. I was at that game and it wasn't pretty. Tatanka rose from the ashes and trampled the Ore Diggers.

GFGriz · Post by **GFGriz** » Wed Nov 16, 2005 8:43 am

Shakermaker wrote:
grizband wrote:The rumor originally came from the Helena IR. My thoughts are this is a no win for Cats/Griz, and no lose for the Saints. Saints will probably make money on the game, and there is a slim chance of pulling off an upset (I won't rule anything out after NDSU in 2003). The game could hurt playoff chances for the I-AA team, as the game woudn't count towards 7 total wins.
NDSU played Montana Tech last year in Fargo. I was at that game and it wasn't pretty. Tatanka rose from the ashes and trampled the Ore Diggers.

Is there a story out there that Tech might play the Griz or State? If not, so what? Carroll ain't Tech. As for "pretty", what does that mean? Both Hauck and Kramer have been winning in ways that even they say aren't pretty. We chalk these games up as "W"s and then try to forget them. Penalties, including personal fouls, galore. Virtually falling down dead for half a game to lesser teams and having to pull a win out through last minute heroics of a few players. Mike Van Diest's Saints don't do any of that. They play with heart, discipline, conviction and poise. Even if Carroll were to lose, they would show the crowd what football is supposed to be like. Again, my bottom line is that neither the Griz nor State would get ANY credit for playing and even beating the Saints, and the Saints would come off as the gutsy little guys. Montana or State would have to be insane to take this deal.

suckitgriz · Post by **suckitgriz** » Wed Nov 16, 2005 10:23 am

I agree that neither team should play them, but Tech almost beat Carroll this year and did, in fact, beat them last year. I believe that Emmert does have a clear chance for the NFL, he did break the all-time NAIA record- held by Chad Kitna (NFL Backup and Previous Starter). Can we please move on though- it is Cat-jizz week...we all have bigger things to worry about this week.

Brick · Post by **Brick** » Wed Nov 16, 2005 11:57 am

GFgriz To bad you don't know ****** about real football ! Saints would have alot to loose like an injury. You play Um or MSU and I promise you players will get hurt. Quit speaking from your heart. The saints are great in NAIA but not a shot in The Big Sky period!

GFGriz · Post by **GFGriz** » Wed Nov 16, 2005 6:29 pm

Brick wrote:GFgriz To bad you don't know ****** about real football ! Saints would have alot to loose like an injury. You play Um or MSU and I promise you players will get hurt. Quit speaking from your heart. The saints are great in NAIA but not a shot in The Big Sky period!

Brick. Too bad you don't know about real football. Players get hurt and injured. Do you know so little about the game that that has escaped your attention? And if it were a game between the Saints and State without Lulay, I wouldn't be surprised if the Saints wouldn't give them a run for it. A little history is instructive. Just before Lulay began starting in 2002, Division II Central Washington beat the Saints one week and State soon after, with the Wildcat coach saying they had a harder time against the Saints than against State. Carroll beat Central Washington each of the next two years; I hear the Wildcats vowed not to schedule Carroll again. The Griz scheduled Central Washington for this year, but dropped the game. If both UM and State can schedule games with a Division II team Carroll has met thrice and beaten twice (and played better against than State in the year the Saints lost), then a Saints game with UM or State has no foregone conclusion. Carroll apparently isn't running away from such a challenge. I suspect State might, however. Some of its players might be hurt or injured.

Shakermaker · Post by **Shakermaker** » Wed Nov 16, 2005 6:32 pm

Brick wrote:GFgriz To bad you don't know ****** about real football ! Saints would have alot to loose like an injury. You play Um or MSU and I promise you players will get hurt. Quit speaking from your heart. The saints are great in NAIA but not a shot in The Big Sky period!

I'd have to agree for the most part... injuries are a bizzo. I remember when the Griz played Washington State back in 95' they, along with WSU, made ESPN highlight clip for a huge hit... the huge hit was on one of our guys who went out with a concussion (he got rocked), one of a series that ended his season early. Correct me if I'm wrong Griz fans, or Cat fans who know what I'm talking about. I can't remember his name though.

GFGriz · Post by **GFGriz** » Wed Nov 16, 2005 6:34 pm

Brick wrote:GFgriz To bad you don't know ****** about real football ! Saints would have alot to loose like an injury. You play Um or MSU and I promise you players will get hurt. Quit speaking from your heart. The saints are great in NAIA but not a shot in The Big Sky period!

Oh, and since you mentioned injuries, Carroll's Emmert was injured in the 2002 playoffs and couldn't complete the series. His backup, Rob Latrielle, stepped up and played the rest of the playoff games and guided the Saints to their first National Championship. Injuries happen, and yet Mike Van Diest's teams survive and prevail.

suckitgriz · Post by **suckitgriz** » Wed Nov 16, 2005 6:40 pm

Rob was an all-state QB out of Missoula and a damn fine kid. He actually was the starter and Emmert beat him out...next!

BozoneCat · Post by **BozoneCat** » Wed Nov 16, 2005 6:57 pm

GFGriz wrote:Brick. Too bad you don't know about real football. Players get hurt and injured. Do you know so little about the game that that has escaped your attention? And if it were a game between the Saints and State without Lulay, I wouldn't be surprised if the Saints wouldn't give them a run for it. A little history is instructive. Just before Lulay began starting in 2002, Division II Central Washington beat the Saints one week and State soon after, with the Wildcat coach saying they had a harder time against the Saints than against State. Carroll beat Central Washington each of the next two years; I hear the Wildcats vowed not to schedule Carroll again. The Griz scheduled Central Washington for this year, but dropped the game. If both UM and State can schedule games with a Division II team Carroll has met thrice and beaten twice (and played better against than State in the year the Saints lost), then a Saints game with UM or State has no foregone conclusion. Carroll apparently isn't running away from such a challenge. I suspect State might, however. Some of its players might be hurt or injured.

God, you are an idiot.

GFGriz · Post by **GFGriz** » Wed Nov 16, 2005 11:19 pm

BozoneCat wrote:
GFGriz wrote:Brick. Too bad you don't know about real football. Players get hurt and injured. Do you know so little about the game that that has escaped your attention? And if it were a game between the Saints and State without Lulay, I wouldn't be surprised if the Saints wouldn't give them a run for it. A little history is instructive. Just before Lulay began starting in 2002, Division II Central Washington beat the Saints one week and State soon after, with the Wildcat coach saying they had a harder time against the Saints than against State. Carroll beat Central Washington each of the next two years; I hear the Wildcats vowed not to schedule Carroll again. The Griz scheduled Central Washington for this year, but dropped the game. If both UM and State can schedule games with a Division II team Carroll has met thrice and beaten twice (and played better against than State in the year the Saints lost), then a Saints game with UM or State has no foregone conclusion. Carroll apparently isn't running away from such a challenge. I suspect State might, however. Some of its players might be hurt or injured.
God, you are an idiot.

Do you have anything to say of substance? No? I didn't think so.

Ponycat · Post by **Ponycat** » Thu Nov 17, 2005 10:05 am

GFGriz wrote: I hear the Wildcats vowed not to schedule Carroll again. .

Are your sure they "vowed" I heard they swore.

grizband · Post by **grizband** » Thu Nov 17, 2005 10:24 am

AZCAT21 wrote:Please Emmert will not be going to the NFL, he is about 6'0" 170lbs....Not saying he is a bad player but look at Lulay on TV and then compare him to Emmert. This size difference is really noticeable. Arm strength is another huge huge difference, Emmert doesn't throw many deep passes. Carroll's team is so much better than every other team that all he has to do is dump off a 5 yard pass and watch every player miss on the tackle. And please if anyone thinks that Carroll would keep the game close is straight up smoking some wacky tobacky!! I think the reference to a "Glorified High School" team is meant by the fact that the lineman for Carroll are all 5'10" and weigh 265. All one has to do is go to a Cat/Griz game and then go to a Carroll team and notice the size difference, then ask yourselves if they would stand a chance.

This post is by no means trying to down play Emmert or Carroll because he is spectacular at his position and anyone would love to have his stats for a career, but lets not get foolish on this board.

According to the Carroll website, Emmert is 6'2" 204. They do have some good size at O-line too. Their starting left tackle is 6'4" 295 lbs. Most of their players are between 6' and 6'4", and weigh between 260-290.