Conference Realignment-Big Sky Expansion Thread

BelgradeBobcat · Post by **BelgradeBobcat** » Mon Nov 15, 2004 10:16 pm

Now for basketball (and presumably most other sports except football).

My comments are based on the following:

At the start of this thread I noted that Fullerton had stated that the Big Sky may lose two teams in the near future (I can't remember if I heard this in an interview or if he was quoted in an article, or if it was just a rumor). But he's been talking quite a bit about expansion, so that makes me think something is up.

I think Sac State is going to bolt for the Big West soon (I haven't heard or seen anything that they will, but it just makes too much sense for them to go with their fellow California schools).

I think um might have designs on going to the WAC. The WAC needs some schools to insure their automatic bid becasue half their membership parades themselves in front of other conferences like a whore on Times Square (Fresno, Boise, Hawaii etc, they all think they're better than the WAC). To me Montana is the next and probably only school that the WAC could consider. Sac is light years from 1-A football, so is Portland State.

Basketball scheduling works best with an even number of teams so everyone has a travel partner. You play 2 games a week with the exception of the week that you play your travel partner (rival). With an odd number of teams you end up with mid-week games, or a road game right before you play your rival-who maybe didn't have to play anyone, etc. It's a mess with an odd number of teams.

Fullerton is on record saying that taking in a non-football school is a possibility they are considering.

So here's some possibilites on how the Big Sky might look-teams paired up as travel partners:

10 team league:
MSU-ISU
EWU-PSU
WSU-Utah Valley State (new D-1 in Orem Utah, on MSU schedule)
NAU-Northern Colorado
SDSU-NDSU

Or-if Montana doesn't leave:
Add the University of Denver as Northern Colorado's travel partner and have a 12 team set up.

Or-if Montana does leave:

Add Southern Utah as NAU's travel partner
Add DU as UNC's travel partner

And then there's the possibility of North Dakota coming in soon. You would pair up NDSU and UND, and SDSU with UNC (no Denver).

There's lots of combinations here. I don't know much about Utah Valley. They used to be a junior college, but are now 4-year and I've heard have over 20K students. I've also heard they play in a really nice arena in Orem. MSU has a home and home with them this year in men's basketball. They are a D-1 independent.

DU also has a very nice arena (looks nice on TV), but they don't draw well. They're more known for their D-1 Hockey program that recently won a national title. MSU had a home and home with them last year and lost both games-I think both losses were by 1 point. They were a Big Sky caliber team in every way. Right now they play in the Sunbelt Conference-which seems a little out of place and makes me think they'd be interested in a more regional conference affiliation.

velochat · Post by **velochat** » Tue Nov 16, 2004 9:31 am

14 teams for football and 10 for all other sports might be pretty good. The two division football winners would almost certainly be in the playoffs. 10 basketball schools would allow some safety cushion for when someone leaves. It would all bring the conference more attention, if not stability. Such an expansion might make it more attractive for some schools to stay in the big sky, such as CSUS or PSU. Even if Cal Poly and UCD were football only members, we still might want to schedule them for basketball and volleyball (why not?).

mslacat · Post by **mslacat** » Tue Nov 16, 2004 9:46 am

At least in basketball, it would not feel right if we did not play Weber, Idaho State and NAU every year in a home and home situation. Wait a minute the trip to Flagstaff .............. OK put NAU in the other division!!

velochat · Post by **velochat** » Tue Nov 16, 2004 2:29 pm

Also, ISU and Weber are the easiest trips. Compare an hour flight to SLC vs. Brookings, or a 4 hour bus ride to ISU to a long trip to Fargo.

BelgradeBobcat · Post by **BelgradeBobcat** » Tue Nov 16, 2004 5:44 pm

I've heard that trip to Flagstaff involves a yoke of oxen, a wooden cart, and at least 6 feet of snow.

Utah Valley State might be in the running just because of their location-flying into Salt Lake is about the easiest destination for every Big Sky school. Much easier to get to than Cedar City.

Getting to Brookings or Fargo would probably involve a flight to Minneapolis and then a connection to Fargo or Sioux Falls. From Bozeman, Northwest probably will work the best-I don't know what other airlines serve Fargo or SF.

No matter where the league goes-travel won't be for the faint of heart.

BelgradeBobcat · Post by **BelgradeBobcat** » Thu Nov 18, 2004 4:53 pm

Don Reed was interviewed on the Sports Nuts today (Hauck refused to talk them unlike every other Big Sky and Frontier coach-but that's another story).

He was asked about um going 1-A. He said right now budget wise it was impossible, and their stadium is too small. He said he thought the griz were at the right level they needed to be at. Of course it's not up to him, but I would think the AD would have some say in the matter.

He also said expansion was healthy. He said 5 schools were trying to get in. We all know NDSU, SDSU, UNC, and SUU, but I have no guess as to who the 5th school would be.

Reed is an interesting guy to listen to. I know he's the architect of the evil empire over there, but I find it impossible to not like the guy.

Cat-theotherwhitemeat · Post by **Cat-theotherwhitemeat** » Thu Nov 18, 2004 5:20 pm

BelgradeBobcat wrote:Don Reed was interviewed on the Sports Nuts today (Hauck refused to talk them unlike every other Big Sky and Frontier coach-but that's another story).

He was asked about um going 1-A. He said right now budget wise it was impossible, and their stadium is too small. He said he thought the griz were at the right level they needed to be at. Of course it's not up to him, but I would think the AD would have some say in the matter.

He also said expansion was healthy. He said 5 schools were trying to get in. We all know NDSU, SDSU, UNC, and SUU, but I have no guess as to who the 5th school would be.

Reed is an interesting guy to listen to. I know he's the architect of the evil empire over there, but I find it impossible to not like the guy.

I just heard the same thing, except I heard that the invites were all but ready to go to NDSU, SDSU, and UNC. Read is very much against a move to 1-A.

grizbeer · Post by **grizbeer** » Fri Nov 19, 2004 9:56 pm

Cat-theotherwhitemeat wrote:
BelgradeBobcat wrote:Don Reed was interviewed on the Sports Nuts today (Hauck refused to talk them unlike every other Big Sky and Frontier coach-but that's another story).

He was asked about um going 1-A. He said right now budget wise it was impossible, and their stadium is too small. He said he thought the griz were at the right level they needed to be at. Of course it's not up to him, but I would think the AD would have some say in the matter.

He also said expansion was healthy. He said 5 schools were trying to get in. We all know NDSU, SDSU, UNC, and SUU, but I have no guess as to who the 5th school would be.

Reed is an interesting guy to listen to. I know he's the architect of the evil empire over there, but I find it impossible to not like the guy.
I just heard the same thing, except I heard that the invites were all but ready to go to NDSU, SDSU, and UNC. Read is very much against a move to 1-A.

Heard Denver is the other school, as basketball only, for an even number of teams in BB with travel partners, and an even number of games in football for home/away balance.

velochat · Post by **velochat** » Mon Nov 22, 2004 9:32 am

I wonder if Denver is interested in other sports, such as volleyball. We know their basketball teams are good enough. It would be one of the easiest trips for most schools. Just 75 minutes from Bozeman. Paired with UNC, that would be very practical.

BelgradeBobcat · Post by **BelgradeBobcat** » Mon Nov 22, 2004 12:19 pm

DU has a ski team-so we wouldn't be the only Big Sky ski team anymore.

DU doesn't have indoor/outdoor track and field or cross-country. But they do have women's golf, men's and women's tennis, and women's volleyball.

BelgradeBobcat · Post by **BelgradeBobcat** » Tue Nov 30, 2004 10:35 am

Got this off the North Dakota State Board:

Greeley Tribune-UNC a good fit for the Big Sky

mslacat · Post by **mslacat** » Tue Nov 30, 2004 11:15 am

OK, I vote lets bring in UNC! Go Tarheels!!

velochat · Post by **velochat** » Tue Nov 30, 2004 11:18 am

I'd guess there's a 99% chance that UNC will be offered a spot in the conference. It would be one of the easier trips for most schools, financially and time wise, since teams could fly to Denver, non-stop.

mslacat · Post by **mslacat** » Tue Nov 30, 2004 11:23 am

oh you are talking the "Northern Colorado" UNC,............. damn!!

velochat · Post by **velochat** » Tue Nov 30, 2004 11:30 am

Is there another UNC? North Chugach?

mslacat · Post by **mslacat** » Tue Nov 30, 2004 11:34 am

I will take your comment Velo as humor, and forgive the over sight of my University of North Carolina Tarheel, but don't do it again!

velochat · Post by **velochat** » Tue Nov 30, 2004 11:41 am

I've actually visited schools in Raleigh and Durham; never heard of that other one. Is it in Charlotte?

BelgradeBobcat · Post by **BelgradeBobcat** » Thu Dec 02, 2004 10:40 am

Sounds like the University of North Dakota may throw their hat into the ring as well-this after statements by their President a couple of months ago that made it sound like they were not going D-I/I-AA anytime soon.

The following story in the Fargo Forum says UND (that's North Dakota-not Notre Dame Mslacat!) is looking at the Big Sky and vise/versa. You have to register to get the article, but if you're at all interested in this stuff, registering for the Forum's website is well worth your while as they have been most proactive for a long time in pursuing this story.

Fargo Forum re: UND Mulls D-1 move

The link below is to the North Dakota message board. The above story is included in the thread (I'll let them break copyright laws).

North Dakota Message Board

If UND is indeed brought along with NDSU I wonder if South Dakota State is screwed? The are suddenly out there by themselves a bit, with no travel partner. I personally hope not-I'd like to see the Jackrabbits in the Big Sky.

BelgradeBobcat · Post by **BelgradeBobcat** » Fri Dec 03, 2004 11:24 am

Grand Forks Herald (no registration required)

More stuff from the Dakotas. Fullerton is quoted as looking at a 2 division format.

Big meeting of Big Sky Presidents set for December 13.

Getting the Bison/Sioux rivalry in the Big Sky would be a real shot in the arm for our league.

bisonguy · Post by **bisonguy** » Sat Dec 04, 2004 1:50 am

Here's an interesting addition to the North Dakota story:

Letter by Kupchella to UND football letterman on Division I issue

This is a letter from the president of UND to some of the UND football players about moving to DI. I wouldn't mind seeing UND moving to DI, but not if it's for the reasoning they seem to be giving from this quote from the president (from above link):

I want you to know that I hate the idea that NDSU even appears to be making a move ahead of us in any way whatsoever, perhaps as much as you do - even for a little while. I, too, miss playing NDSU - especially when we win. Pride and emotion are powerful enough sometimes even to overwhelm logic and other considerations. I recognize that we may have to make this move even though, ultimately it may make no otherwise logical or financial sense to do so ...

Doesn't sound like the most solid reason to move to DI.

I sure wouldn't want to be the president or AD at UND right now. The UND president was publicly lambasted this week for trying to start a UND campus up in Fargo, and taking over the funding for one of NDSU's major Pharmacy projects. Both of these underhanded manuevers are strictly prohibited by the State Board of Higher Education. Now this letter is made public by the Fargo Forum, and he looks like an even bigger sourpuss. The AD is currently one of two finalists for the NCC commissioner position (UND's current DII conference), and it sure would be in his best interest to keep UND in the NCC and DII if he gets the job. He interviews on Dec. 16th, while the Big Sky wants an answer if UND is interested in DI by Dec. 13th. Two guys stuck between a rock and a hard place.....