Big Sky to look at adding only UNC

Post by **kmax** » Mon Dec 13, 2004 5:17 pm

http://www.bigskyconf.com/article.asp?articleid=64596

This makes absolutely no sense to me and could likely be considered the worst possible thing that the Big Sky could have done in terms of possible expansion. Nothing against Northern Colorado, but adding only them is just plain stupid. We could have added two state institutions with huge followings (both would have been near the top in attendance for major sports) and instead we are going to add another regional school that is lucky if they are third or fourth fiddle in state?!?!? WHY!!!!!!!!!

HelenaCat · Post by **HelenaCat** » Mon Dec 13, 2004 5:21 pm

kmax: I agree with you. Other than travel and another supposedly big market area (close to Denver), this makes no sense to me.

Post by **SonomaCat** » Mon Dec 13, 2004 5:23 pm

Ugh! Couldn't agree more, kmax. This is a head scratcher. We added the University of No Credit (as it is fondly known by those in Colorado) and left some really good schools and athletic programs (the Dakotas) on the table.

Did we as a conference do something shameful? Are we simply committing hari-kari in order to save face by our own painful death? I can't think of any other good explanation for it.

bisonguy · Post by **bisonguy** » Mon Dec 13, 2004 5:57 pm

Write a letter to your local congressman, or better yet, the presidents of the Big Sky schools. I know your president was the most vocal supporter of NDSU/SDSU gaining admission to the Big Sky.

The "consensus" quote makes me think there was too much of a stalemate on the Dakota schools (4-4 vote?), and UNC was the only one that was close to having the needed six votes.

Oh well. I'm probably going to Bozeman next year to watch the Bison and the Bobcats.

Cat Grad · Post by **Cat Grad** » Mon Dec 13, 2004 5:59 pm

I would hope we have enough sense to pick up at least four teams before next year; with SACs recent move to the WAC for baseball (and in all probability the rest of their program) over the next couple of years and Portland State sure to follow, I fail to understand what we're waiting for. North Dakota's Board of Regents is forcing North Dokato to go with NDSU, so why wait? Geographically, it's a natural for our conference to merge with the Great West and split into East and West Divisions. But, I don't make the big bucks to make those tough decisions...

bisonguy · Post by **bisonguy** » Mon Dec 13, 2004 6:07 pm

North Dakota does not have a Board of Regents, and UND is not and cannot be forced to move up.

Matter of fact, the lack of interest from the Big Sky towards UND will probably put any in-depth look at moving to DI on the backburner.

BelgradeBobcat · Post by **BelgradeBobcat** » Mon Dec 13, 2004 6:16 pm

I think they're making a mistake if they only take UNC, but they're the bosses I guess.

Northern Colorado is probably a good school, and they're in a favorable geographical location, but they get lost in the considerable shadow of Colorado State, Colorado, Wyoming, and probably even Air Force. Not to mention Denver's pro teams.

UNC will be probably be competitive athletically, and they'll bring about the same type of fan support as Eastern Washington. If that's what the presidents want for our league that's the way it is, but it does leave me scratching my head.

89rabbit · Post by **89rabbit** » Mon Dec 13, 2004 6:28 pm

BelgradeBobcat wrote:Northern Colorado is probably a good school, and they're in a favorable geographical location, but they get lost in the considerable shadow of Colorado State, Colorado, Wyoming, and probably even Air Force. Not to mention Denver's pro teams.

You forgot the University of Denver (although no football, UNC falls behind them in media coverage for Basketball). Bummer I was looking forward to playing you guys every year.

89rabbit · Post by **89rabbit** » Mon Dec 13, 2004 6:31 pm

One more post, let's see which schools are stronger and bring more to the Big Sky.

Montana State
Montana

or

Sac State
Portland State

Well supported flagship schools or Non-flagship schools in (or around) major markets that no one seems to care about? Just wondering?

I guess the quest for major markets goes on.

BelgradeBobcat · Post by **BelgradeBobcat** » Mon Dec 13, 2004 6:36 pm

Maybe the problem is most college presidents were the kids who got picked last for kickball in grade school. Do most of them care anything at all for athletics?

The other problem-convincing 6 of 8 to to agree on a place for lunch is probably hard-convincing 6 of 8 on conference membership must be near impossible.

MSU01 · Post by **MSU01** » Mon Dec 13, 2004 6:45 pm

Big mistake IMO...NDSU and SDSU would be fabulous additions to the conference, even if it isn't easy to travel there.

89rabbit · Post by **89rabbit** » Mon Dec 13, 2004 6:48 pm

Well they didn't pick based on academics:

Here is the Great West's graduation rates students/student athletes

SDSU: 53/73
NDSU: 53/69
Cal-Poly: 65/55
Cal-Davis: 81/0 (didn't have scholarships at the time or report)
SUU: 34/57
N. Colo: 47/45

They didn't pick on support:

Here is the Great West's attendence figures:

GREAT WEST CONFERENCE Att. . . G . . . Avg
North Dakota State . . . . . 79,614 . 6 . . 13,269
South Dakota State . . . . . 39,384 . 4 . . .9,846
Cal Poly SLO . . . . . . . . . . .41,974 . 5 . . . 8,395
Cal-Davis . . . . . . . . . . . . . 29,010 . 4 . . . 7,253
Northern Colorado . . . . . .27,370 . 6 . . . 4,562
Southern Utah . . . . . . . . .19,197 . 5 . . . 3,839

So I am going to say they went with geography and geography alone.

WYOBISONMAN · Post by **WYOBISONMAN** » Mon Dec 13, 2004 6:58 pm

It sounded like there was considerable support for the Dakotas, but they presidents decided they wanted a concesus on it and ONLY UNC was agreed on by all 8. I suspect that the Dakotas may have won a 6 of 8 vote, but they didn't want to fragment the conference. I also suspect the "fragments" were Sac State and Portland State.

BelgradeBobcat · Post by **BelgradeBobcat** » Mon Dec 13, 2004 7:05 pm

WYOBISONMAN wrote:It sounded like there was considerable support for the Dakotas, but they presidents decided they wanted a concesus on it and ONLY UNC was agreed on by all 8. I suspect that the Dakotas may have won a 6 of 8 vote, but they didn't want to fragment the conference. I also suspect the "fragments" were Sac State and Portland State.

That makes sense to me. Fullerton did mention many times over the last few months that they wouldn't take somebody that would cause somebody else to leave.

Cat Grad · Post by **Cat Grad** » Mon Dec 13, 2004 8:52 pm

http://www.billingsgazette.com/index.ph ... 65-und.inc

I have a hard time finding relevant articles when I'm supposed to be working; I know I read where one of North Dakota's influential lawmakers was going to force the schools to be joined at the hip like we are in Montana and assumed they were representing the same type of regulating group of ....... as we have in Montana...

WYOBISONMAN · Post by **WYOBISONMAN** » Mon Dec 13, 2004 10:11 pm

UND won't even think about jumping to D1 for a while since the Big Sky didn't even mention them in the press release.....NDSU got left at home, but at least we got a mention!

velochat · Post by **velochat** » Tue Dec 14, 2004 8:50 am

Consensus means all 8 presidents in agreement. I can see the rationale for the decision made, as UNC is far more accessible, through the Denver airport, than the other schools mentioned. I'd be curious about SUU's problem, but it may well be travel as well as other academic issues. Cedar City is a long haul even from Ogden. It's not too far from Flagstaff, but that area is so snowy that road travel would be unreliable.

I actually think it would be a good thing for the new 1-AA conference to solidify, so that we will have plenty of good regional 1-AA opponents to schedule in the future. I can understand the disappointment of the Dakotas, but UNC had a big edge, location wise, as the center of the Big Sky conference would be somewhere between the Rockies and Sierras.

More schools could always be added in the future, should the need arise.

What would be best, IMHO, would be for a new 1-AA equivalent of the North Central conference to emerge, with UND and USD joining their land grant counterparts.

Of course, UNC has not been actually invited, but I would think it's a pretty good bet they will join the Big Sky in the end. You can fly to Denver from Bozeman several times a day in 75 minutes, while Fargo or Brookings would take the better part of a day by air.

WYOBISONMAN · Post by **WYOBISONMAN** » Tue Dec 14, 2004 9:05 am

......and in Fargo you land 5 minutes from the University instead of 45 minutes like at UNC.

velochat · Post by **velochat** » Tue Dec 14, 2004 9:23 am

I have nothing against NDSU. You have great sports and a fine school and city. I think there are other things than travel. Your comment reminds me that it takes probably more than an hour to go to Boulder from the Denver airport, when I take the bus.

The other factor I'm thinking of is that with a Colorado school in the Sky, we have a major population base. It would lead to Colorado players at Big Sky schools, opportunities for Denver area alumnus of Big Sky schools to see their teams, opportunities for Colorado recruits to be seen by their parents, etc., as is the case with the California schools. MSU recruits a large percentage of players from the West coast, now, and with UNC in the conference, that might apply to the Denver area.

I'm not saying the Dakota schools shouldn't have been invited, but I understand the decision made, looking from Flagstaff or Sacramento or Cheney, which are full members and have equal rights in the decision. The decision seems rational, particularly if the idea of a split league wasn't popular.

I hope MSU starts scheduling NDSU and SDSU in basketball, as that would be a win-win situation. It must be frustrating to not have a home for all sports -- good luck.

WYOBISONMAN · Post by **WYOBISONMAN** » Tue Dec 14, 2004 9:28 am

...And as far as media coverage.....NDSU was prominently featured on the front of the Sunday, November 28th Minneapolis Star Tribune (That would be right underneath the Minnesota Timberwolves). In that samr sports section the AD from the University of Minnesota said that Minnesota was going to get NDSU on the schedule playing the Golden Gophers. Geez.....imagine that.....NDSU playing a BCS school. Guess we are good enough for the Gophers, but not for Sac State and PSU.....

Here are the links for the Star-Tribune articles. Major coverage in a major metropolitain media market.....a market much bigger than Denver....and more coverage than UNC has ever seen in Denver.....Not ripping on UNC, but just stating the facts....

Note......you will need to register to veiw the articles. Registration is easy, and the Star-Trib doesn't send out junk mail to your email account.

http://www.startribune.com/stories/513/5106810.html

http://www.startribune.com/stories/503/5106821.html

http://www.startribune.com/stories/503/5106835.html

That my freinds is major market media coverage......probably some of the best that all of DI-AA has had all year. Compliments of the Big Sky rejects.....