Question for Athletic trainer / Physical therepy types

mslacat · Post by **mslacat** » Fri Oct 14, 2005 8:44 pm

I have a question for anyone with a sports injury back ground. A certain team we all know and love went on a program to put significant weight on to their Basketball big men this off-season. Apparently some of these players put on up to 25 lbs of muscle in about 3-4 months. I have a few years into watching college basketball team, but i can not remember any other team that has had this much success in muscling up their big men. Now all of a sudden 2 of the four big men have come down with an acl injury and stress fractures in a leg(s). How likely or possible is it that the weight/muscle gain and these type of injuries are related? It seems to me, as an architect with a pretty good understanding of structural design,

that these are the type of injuries that would be consistant with excess stresses put on a body too, quickly.

I saw Seyfert earlier this fall and man he was huge!!!!

grizzh8r · Post by **grizzh8r** » Fri Oct 14, 2005 8:48 pm

I'm tellin ya, those damn 'roids will come back to bite ya in the ass...

BozoneCat · Post by **BozoneCat** » Fri Oct 14, 2005 8:51 pm

These injuries are definitely related. Not only that, it is very suspicious to see thin-type basketball players gain 25 lbs. of muscle in that time span. That is not normal, and the human body is not physiologically built to handle that much stress in that short of a time span. I'm not going to flat out accuse them of steroid use, but I will say it looks fishy. Steroids have been shown to decrease the strength and pliability of connective tissue and bone...

anacondagriz · Post by **anacondagriz** » Fri Oct 14, 2005 11:24 pm

BozoneCat wrote:These injuries are definitely related. Not only that, it is very suspicious to see thin-type basketball players gain 25 lbs. of muscle in that time span. That is not normal, and the human body is not physiologically built to handle that much stress in that short of a time span. I'm not going to flat out accuse them of steroid use, but I will say it looks fishy. Steroids have been shown to decrease the strength and pliability of connective tissue and bone...

Oh Jesus I have heard some whoppers Bozone but the fact that you would even hint at the Griz basketball coaches condoning steroids to bulk up the team has to be one of the all time dumbest I have heard. By the way I heard Kramer gives out meth before the games because it makes you crazy & gives you tons of energy for a while

lifeloyalsigmsu · Post by **lifeloyalsigmsu** » Sat Oct 15, 2005 12:56 am

anacondagriz wrote:
BozoneCat wrote:These injuries are definitely related. Not only that, it is very suspicious to see thin-type basketball players gain 25 lbs. of muscle in that time span. That is not normal, and the human body is not physiologically built to handle that much stress in that short of a time span. I'm not going to flat out accuse them of steroid use, but I will say it looks fishy. Steroids have been shown to decrease the strength and pliability of connective tissue and bone...
Oh Jesus I have heard some whoppers Bozone but the fact that you would even hint at the Griz basketball coaches condoning steroids to bulk up the team has to be one of the all time dumbest I have heard. By the way I heard Kramer gives out meth before the games because it makes you crazy & gives you tons of energy for a while

Anacondagriz, do you have a fluent understanding of what bozone spoke of? He's right on all accounts regarding steroid use. He never directly accused anyone of steroid use; he only said it was fishy that those players could bulk up in such a short amount of time. If you haven't noticed, it has been show to be a sign of the times. Krysko, to me, is a an upstanding coach so if there was something going on amongst the players, I highly doubt he'd be aware of it.

anacondagriz · Post by **anacondagriz** » Sat Oct 15, 2005 9:51 am

lifeloyalsigmsu wrote:
anacondagriz wrote:
BozoneCat wrote:These injuries are definitely related. Not only that, it is very suspicious to see thin-type basketball players gain 25 lbs. of muscle in that time span. That is not normal, and the human body is not physiologically built to handle that much stress in that short of a time span. I'm not going to flat out accuse them of steroid use, but I will say it looks fishy. Steroids have been shown to decrease the strength and pliability of connective tissue and bone...
Oh Jesus I have heard some whoppers Bozone but the fact that you would even hint at the Griz basketball coaches condoning steroids to bulk up the team has to be one of the all time dumbest I have heard. By the way I heard Kramer gives out meth before the games because it makes you crazy & gives you tons of energy for a while
Anacondagriz, do you have a fluent understanding of what bozone spoke of? He's right on all accounts regarding steroid use. He never directly accused anyone of steroid use; he only said it was fishy that those players could bulk up in such a short amount of time. If you haven't noticed, it has been show to be a sign of the times. Krysko, to me, is a an upstanding coach so if there was something going on amongst the players, I highly doubt he'd be aware of it.

I know for a fact that Bozone forgets more about physical therapy & such everyday then I could ever hope to know. I just don't think he should have brought up the STEROIDS issue. It just seemed to me like he was trying to open a can of worms, maybe he wasn't.

gtapp · Post by **gtapp** » Sat Oct 15, 2005 10:43 am

25lbs in that amount of time is rare but possible. 15lbs of muscle with 10 lbs of fat would be more reasonable. The only way to get those gains in that time frame (without steroids) is to work the larger muscle groups (Squats, Deadlifts and Bench) hard. If you do these excercises without working the small support muscles you can have these types of injuries. I work out with guys who bench over 700 lbs and they also have to work those small muscle groups to minimize injury. The weakest link in the chain theory comes to mind. I don't know what training was used so it could just be coincidental that these injuries occured. Most BB players avoid bulk because of the negative impact on speed and quickness. You have to realize that at their age they will have more impressive gains than someone over 30 (due to all that Testosterone). Now if you told me that a 40 year old gained 25 lbs of muscle in 4-5 months then we would be talking "Juice".

gtapp · Post by **gtapp** » Sat Oct 15, 2005 10:56 am

Follow-up Point:

Look at our Football Players. Most aspire for bulk. Some (OL and DL) can gain 20-30 lbs in one year. Some have trouble. Look at Clive Lowe. He came to MSU 210 lbs. They wanted him at about 250 eventually. He did everything he could and yet he gained 10-15 lbs the first year and another 5-10 since. Cogley only gained about 10-15 lbs his first couple of years and then about 20-25 last year. It depends on five things.

1. What you eat and how much.
2. How you work out and how hard you work out.
3. How much aerobics you do (this minimizes gains)
4. Your body (metabolism, testosterone levels, etc)
5. What supplements you take (other than steroids)

It is also difficult to gain muscle without gaining fat. Look at the top bodybuilders. 2 months before a big meet they look almost fat. Then they add aerobics, start taking ephedrine, cut calories to 1200 per day with no more than 50 grams of carbs and they therefore drop all of their water weight and about 30-40 lbs and thus the "Cut" look.

BozoneCat · Post by **BozoneCat** » Sat Oct 15, 2005 11:05 am

anacondagriz wrote:I know for a fact that Bozone forgets more about physical therapy & such everyday then I could ever hope to know. I just don't think he should have brought up the STEROIDS issue. It just seemed to me like he was trying to open a can of worms, maybe he wasn't.

Hmmm, that's funny. I was unaware that we were good pals. I guess the doctorate degree I will receive in May really doesn't mean anything.

Don't try to argue facts with people who know much more than you do. It just makes you look ignorant. I wasn't trying to open a can of worms, but I did intimate that the situation smells a little fishy. If you have seen any of my posts regarding Coach Krystkowiak, you would know that I hold the man in the highest esteem, and I would certainly never suggest that he is putting his kids on the juice. In fact, I believe there would be serious consequences if he ever found out someone was juicing. Facts are facts, and the additional information provided by lifeloyalsig (another man with a doctorate, BTW) and gtapp is also entirely factual.

coachouert · Post by **coachouert** » Sat Oct 15, 2005 11:11 am

I guess the doctorate degree I will receive in May really doesn't mean anything.

Dr. Bozone....that has a nice ring if you ask me!

BozoneCat · Post by **BozoneCat** » Sat Oct 15, 2005 11:30 am

coachouert wrote:Dr. Bozone....that has a nice ring if you ask me!

Can't say I disagree!

Lots of work to do before then, though...