Helena High beats Hellgate by forfeit

[HelenaCat95]

Hellgate only had 20 guys at practice on Thursday, and decided to forfeit their game with Helena High. (The Bengals were probably going to win anyway).

Does anyone know the last time a game was forfeited in MT...and specifically in the AA? I know that games have been cancelled before, for fires, or 9-11, but a forfeit? This isn't a trivia question, I'd just like to know.

[91catAlum]

I don't know the answer to your question, but this really stinks for the kids. On both sides. Especially the kids who are borderline college players - this is one less opportunity to catch a scout's eye... One less game than everyone else for stats which affects all-state voting... It just stinks.

[allcat]

I don't know the answer to your question, but this really stinks for the kids. On both sides. Especially the kids who are borderline college players - this is one less opportunity to catch a scout's eye... One less game than everyone else for stats which affects all-state voting... It just stinks.

They said they only had 14 healthy kids. It might suck, but it's the right call.

[91catAlum]

I don't know the answer to your question, but this really stinks for the kids. On both sides. Especially the kids who are borderline college players - this is one less opportunity to catch a scout's eye... One less game than everyone else for stats which affects all-state voting... It just stinks.

They said they only had 14 healthy kids. It might suck, but it's the right call.

Then Hellgate shouldn't be in AA. Or Missoula needs to change its open enrollment policy.

[LTown Cat]

I don't know the answer to your question, but this really stinks for the kids. On both sides. Especially the kids who are borderline college players - this is one less opportunity to catch a scout's eye... One less game than everyone else for stats which affects all-state voting... It just stinks.

They said they only had 14 healthy kids. It might suck, but it's the right call.

14 healthy upperclassmen. Plus 6 sophomores. Just clarifying that.

[HelenaCat95]

I agree. It stinks for the kids from both teams. The paper said that Hellgate had some injuries that caused them to have so few players this week (they don't have many kids out for FB anyway) and that they expect to get them back in time for Sentinel next week.

[Joe Bobcat]

Bummer for the kids. Not saying if this was a good or bad decision but I can't help but wonder how many class B teams participate the whole year with a roster of 20 or maybe even less, and they do it with a number of sophomores and even freshmen.
Yes I realize AA is at a different level of competition because of the number of available participants.

[LTown Cat]

Bummer for the kids. Not saying if this was a good or bad decision but I can't help but wonder how many class B teams participate the whole year with a roster of 20 or maybe even less, and they do it with a number of sophomores and even freshmen.
Yes I realize AA is at a different level of competition because of the number of available participants.

I thought the same. I'm sure it was a tough decision for the AD and coaches to make.
Maybe they should take some of their bball recruiting budget and use it for fball recruiting!

[blueandgoldblitz]

Does anyone know the last time a game was forfeited in MT...and specifically in the AA? I know that games have been cancelled before, for fires, or 9-11, but a forfeit? This isn't a trivia question, I'd just like to know.

In the middle of September, Hays Lodgepole forfeited to Wibaux. It happens more often that you'd think in Class C. I can't answer you for Class AA. That's the first I've ever heard of a AA team forfeiting.

[grizband]

Hellgate has now forfeited their season ending game against Billings Senior.

[91catAlum]

Hellgate has now forfeited their season ending game against Billings Senior.

Sorry but it's getting a bit ridiculous. I can't help but be suspicious of the fact that they manage to play all their home games, but cancel road games. Why is it only road games? Also, Hellgate has as many players as teams that play in class B and they manage to play 11 man football. I understand they don't wanna get beat by 50 every time they play... That's fine, but if they can't compete in AA then they shouldn't be allowed to schedule games next year. It's not fair to the other schools and players.

[John K]

Hellgate has now forfeited their season ending game against Billings Senior.

Sorry but it's getting a bit ridiculous. I can't help but be suspicious of the fact that they manage to play all their home games, but cancel road games. Why is it only road games? Also, Hellgate has as many players as teams that play in class B and they manage to play 11 man football. I understand they don't wanna get beat by 50 every time they play... That's fine, but if they can't compete in AA then they shouldn't be allowed to schedule games next year. It's not fair to the other schools and players.

This should be an embarrassment to Hellgate High School. To me, it's incomprehensible that a AA school with an enrollment of more than 1,000 can't field a football team. Fairfield has an enrollment of barely 100, and not only do they field a team, they've been one of the dominant programs in Class B for many years. Maybe they should petition the MHSA to play 8-man next year. If I was the AD or coach at Helena High or Billings Senior, I'd be pretty pissed about this.

[Joe Bobcat]

Does anyone know how many other school districts and towns have that open enrollment policy like they have over in messed-up-oula? It looks like a system prime for abuse and corruption, but that would never happen over there.

[John K]

Does anyone know how many other school districts and towns have that open enrollment policy like they have over in messed-up-oula? It looks like a system prime for abuse and corruption, but that would never happen over there.

So, by "open enrollment", does that mean that Missoula has no geographic boundaries governing which high school kids attend? Does Hellgate have a significantly lower enrollment than Big Sky and Sentinel? They must have at least 1,000 students though. Surely that should be enough to field a football team. I don't know about the other AA cities with multiple high schools, but here in GF I think it's pretty easy to get a permissive transfer, although I don't think it's all that common. I believe the enrollments at CMR and GFH are approximately the same...within a 100 or so.

Edit: I just looked up the numbers, and Hellgate actually has the largest enrollment of the three Missoula schools. They have 1,250, versus Sentinel at 1,161, and Big Sky at 1,074. Those numbers are from Fall 2014. The MHSA site didn't have the 2015 numbers. They are the three smallest AA schools. GF has the smallest differential, with CMR having only 31 more students than GFH. After GF though, Missoula has the smallest differential between their largest and smallest schools, compared to the other cities with multiple HS. So it appears that open enrollment isn't affecting overall enrollment, but I'm sure athletics is a different story.

[Joe Bobcat]

I'm not 100% sure how it's set up but read this article from the missoulian and read the comments. Maybe someone more familiar with the missoula school district could shed more light on this.
http://missoulian.com/news/local/hellga ... bb938.html

[SonomaCat]

Does anyone know how many other school districts and towns have that open enrollment policy like they have over in messed-up-oula? It looks like a system prime for abuse and corruption, but that would never happen over there.

Missoula is apparently ahead the curve in terms of "school choice" policies for parents. For academic purposes, I could see some upside to that kind of system (different academic/program strengths of different schools). For sports, though, where the focus is on creating parity by limiting the pool of talent at any particular school, it does appear to be something that could be abused.

[JDoub]

Does anyone know how many other school districts and towns have that open enrollment policy like they have over in messed-up-oula? It looks like a system prime for abuse and corruption, but that would never happen over there.

Missoula is apparently ahead the curve in terms of "school choice" policies for parents. For academic purposes, I could see some upside to that kind of system (different academic/program strengths of different schools). For sports, though, where the focus is on creating parity by limiting the pool of talent at any particular school, it does appear to be something that could be abused.

Too bad for all the kids (and parents, and supporters). Hellgate had a tough football and basketball team back in the day when we faced them.

I live in Utah, where state law mandates parental school choice (always has). It does seem to work here, but does have its' issues related to athletics. Students who transfer schools for athletic reasons must sit out a year before competing. But they are allowed to transfer for academic reasons. It is difficult for UHSAA to discern between reasons of transfer, but they do hold hearings and make eligibility rulings.
http://fox13now.com/2012/10/18/east-hig ... e-players/

In reality, what I have seen here is covert recruiting, especially in football, and to a lesser extent basketball. I've coached one of my sons' football teams for 5 years now, he's in 8th grade -- the final season before deciding on a high school program if he wants to switch from Brighton HS (district in which we live). We won our championship last year (we are in a 5A district, the largest classification in Utah) and have already lost 3 players to the "it" HS program of the moment -- Bingham, a nationally ranked HS team for the past 10 years. My son (QB/S, 115 lbs), last week played against a DL of 12 and 13 year olds, all Polys, the smallest of which was 215 lbs, largest was 6'2" and 265, and the fastest kid on the field (and I guarantee this 7th grader could play on any AA varsity team right now!). His older brother plays for the Utes. He, and 3 other kids in our league, have been actively recruited by Bingham supporters (mostly other Polys, selling points are enticing).
http://www.sltrib.com/sports/1995120-15 ... m-loses-in

If Missoula has a similar school choice, I see that as being MORE disruptive that the system we have in Utah. Simply because you only have what -- 3 schools (AA anyway, leave Loyola out of the discussion) to choose from. To me, this could easily lead to collusion to create an "all-city" team -- especially in basketball -- if all the best decide to band together and make a super-team. That seems to be an uneven playing field with Billings, GF, Kalispell. Here in the Salt Lake Valley, there are over 30 5A schools to choose from, and many other 4A, 3A, and 2A high schools -- at least that diffuses the potential and effect of "all star" HS teams.

If there is to be competitive recruiting in HS, at least it should be fair competition with a level playing field.

I personally vacillate on the issue. I will admit, it's pretty cool seeing the Bingham Miners play nationally televised football games on ESPN. I know they would not be there if it weren't for Utah's parental school choice. If Montana had a state parental choice policy, it would not surprise me at all to see a Missoula, GF, Billings, or Kalispell high school team start to gain regional or national recognition. But would that be the best for all Montana? Hard for me to say, but I lean toward "yes."

[WeedKillinCat]

I'm not 100% sure how it's set up but read this article from the missoulian and read the comments. Maybe someone more familiar with the missoula school district could shed more light on this.
http://missoulian.com/news/local/hellga ... bb938.html

What a train wreck. Sounds like open enrollment is an option there. Hellgate has only won 6 games since 2006? Wow!! Also it seems that the AA schools in Missoula are not very competitive? Loyola does well in Class B....

[John K]

I'm not 100% sure how it's set up but read this article from the missoulian and read the comments. Maybe someone more familiar with the missoula school district could shed more light on this.
http://missoulian.com/news/local/hellga ... bb938.html

What a train wreck. Sounds like open enrollment is an option there. Hellgate has only won 6 games since 2006? Wow!! Also it seems that the AA schools in Missoula are not very competitive? Loyola does well in Class B....

That may be at least partially due to enrollment. The Missoula schools are the three smallest in Class AA. None of them made the playoffs this year.

[Cat Grad]

Most of my educational career was in Georgia where zones are strictly enforced for obvious reasons that will remain unsaid. It always amazed me how small high schools enrollment wise could play up two divisions and routinely beat those schools so thoroughly. Lincoln County, Washington County, Buford and now Calhoun can play up two classifications and stomp the living daylights out of the larger schools and the enrollment disparity just blew me away. When a school with 150 to 350 kids would put a beatdown on a school with 2500 kids I always thought about what goes on out here in Montana. I'm trying to think of the Montana kids in the NFL right now and it seems to me the majority of them are from the smaller schools enrollment wise. Anderson and Carpenter are the only AA kids I can think of off the top of my head. I was raised during the Big 32 and looking at just the single A football playoffs this year has me in absolute disgust. Sidney travels to Whitefish (557 miles), Columbia Falls travels to Havre (more than 250 miles), Butte Central to Miles City (370 miles) and Billings Central to Dillon (250 miles) for the quarterfinals!!!! As there are more than a few snarky comments to the line of reasoning "How can a big school forfeit?" all I can say is to me it looks like there's one school in this state with administrators with just a bit of common sense. Gawd, what a joke the MHSA has become.