Bigger than miracle on ice?

[SACCAT]

It is for the confederated Cup. The top teams from around the World play For it. Spain was 1st in the world and had not lost a international match in 38 games. Brazil is 2nd, and who we will probably play in the championship game now.

I thought the North won the Civil War and we never needed to hear about he Confederated south again.

Fu*k

Sorry...it is the Confederations cup. And what do you care, you hate soccer. Shouldn't you be putting BAC in his place over on the Poli board

[AlphaGriz1]

If you guys dont understand the difference between the Soviet team going down to the highschool/college US team in 1980 maybe you should do some research and see how utterly stupid that comparison was.

Soccer is what you go to after you find out you suck at:

Football
Baseball
Basketball
Hockey
Golf
Tennis
MMA
NASCAR driving
Swimming
Motocross Racing
Cycling
Skiing
Track & Field
Figure Skating
Boxing
The entire X-Games plethora of so called sports
Bowling
Curling
Professional fishing
Competitive Jump Rope

then

Soccer

[longhorn_22]

I'm sorry but whether one likes hockey or not, there is no way a bunch of college players upsetting a professional USSR hockey team coming off of 4 straight Olympic gold medals isn't a bigger upset.

[SonomaCat]

Would the "Miracle on Ice" have been the "Miracle on Ice" if the USSR would have been our allies instead of our cold war nemesis?

That said, in terms of upsets, I'd have to give the nod to the hockey game over the soccer game ... although I can't help but think that any game that has scores as low as hockey or (especially) soccer, you can't get too excited/shocked about the underdog winning. It seems like its bound to happen periodically as it only take one or two lucky breaks to account for 100% of the scoring in a match.

[longhorn_22]

Would the "Miracle on Ice" have been the "Miracle on Ice" if the USSR would have been our allies instead of our cold war nemesis?

That said, in terms of upsets, I'd have to give the nod to the hockey game over the soccer game ... although I can't help but think that any game that has scores as low as hockey or (especially) soccer, you can't get too excited/shocked about the underdog winning. It seems like its bound to happen periodically as it only take one or two lucky breaks to account for 100% of the scoring in a match.

In terms of actual sporting events and talent pools, yes.

[GOKATS]

Would the "Miracle on Ice" have been the "Miracle on Ice" if the USSR would have been our allies instead of our cold war nemesis?

C'mon Brad, this may rank as your absolute worst excuse to argue anything, and your propensity to argue any point is well known. The 'Miracle On Ice' was a bunch of amateur level hockey kids thrown together to represent the U.S.A. in the Winter Olympics against a government sanctioned team of professionals.

It truly was a "Miracle" against a government regime team.

I stay out of your pissing matches because you won't ever admit defeat, you just argue until everyone else says to hell with it and goes away. Sorry, bud, but it was a "Miracle" whether you saw it that way or not.

[SACCAT]

Better than M.O.I. or not, who cares, this was a HUGE win for the U.S.A. soccer team. Good luck in the finals boys.

USA USA USA USA USA

[SonomaCat]

Would the "Miracle on Ice" have been the "Miracle on Ice" if the USSR would have been our allies instead of our cold war nemesis?

C'mon Brad, this may rank as your absolute worst excuse to argue anything, and your propensity to argue any point is well known. The 'Miracle On Ice' was a bunch of amateur level hockey kids thrown together to represent the U.S.A. in the Winter Olympics against a government sanctioned team of professionals.

It truly was a "Miracle" against a government regime team.

I stay out of your pissing matches because you won't ever admit defeat, you just argue until everyone else says to hell with it and goes away. Sorry, bud, but it was a "Miracle" whether you saw it that way or not.

I ... see. I guess I was wrong to think that the Cold War had anything to do with our reaction to that game. That's why we get just as excited about Puerto Rico's basketball win over Team USA.

I agree it was a huge upset (and very exciting) ... but I think we all know it wouldn't have gotten "Miracle on Ice" legendary treatment were it not an American team defeating a team from America's arch-enemy in the Cold War. So it's impossible to compare it to any other game apples to apples without factoring in that element of the game that made it such a big deal (that was my point ... disagree if you wish -- I won't stop you).

I just think it is virtually impossible to compare any match to the "Miracle on Ice" because of the context of that game and the intense emotions surrounding that game due to the Cold War. The U.S. Little League team could beat the Mexican national baseball team stocked with MLB players, and we would note that it was a huge upset and talk about it for a day or two, but it would never attain the legendary status of that hockey game.

So no matter how big of an upset a soccer game would be today, most Americans would never put it on par with the "Miracle on Ice," even if they had no idea at all the magnitude of the soccer upset. It wouldn't matter. And given our emotional responses to that hockey match, that makes perfect sense.

Apologies to GOKATS and anyone else offended by me inserting these ideas and perspectives into the discussion.

[longhorn_22]

Would the "Miracle on Ice" have been the "Miracle on Ice" if the USSR would have been our allies instead of our cold war nemesis?

C'mon Brad, this may rank as your absolute worst excuse to argue anything, and your propensity to argue any point is well known. The 'Miracle On Ice' was a bunch of amateur level hockey kids thrown together to represent the U.S.A. in the Winter Olympics against a government sanctioned team of professionals.

It truly was a "Miracle" against a government regime team.

I stay out of your pissing matches because you won't ever admit defeat, you just argue until everyone else says to hell with it and goes away. Sorry, bud, but it was a "Miracle" whether you saw it that way or not.

I ... see. I guess I was wrong to think that the Cold War had anything to do with our reaction to that game. That's why we get just as excited about Puerto Rico's basketball win over Team USA.

I agree it was a huge upset (and very exciting) ... but I think we all know it wouldn't have gotten "Miracle on Ice" legendary treatment were it not an American team defeating a team from America's arch-enemy in the Cold War. So it's impossible to compare it to any other game apples to apples without factoring in that element of the game that made it such a big deal (that was my point ... disagree if you wish -- I won't stop you).

I just think it is virtually impossible to compare any match to the "Miracle on Ice" because of the context of that game and the intense emotions surrounding that game due to the Cold War. The U.S. Little League team could beat the Mexican national baseball team stocked with MLB players, and we would note that it was a huge upset and talk about it for a day or two, but it would never attain the legendary status of that hockey game.

So no matter how big of an upset a soccer game would be today, most Americans would never put it on par with the "Miracle on Ice," even if they had no idea at all the magnitude of the soccer upset. It wouldn't matter. And given our emotional responses to that hockey match, that makes perfect sense.

Apologies to GOKATS and anyone else offended by me inserting these ideas and perspectives into the discussion.

Of course the Cold War tension added to it, but as far as the players and context involved, I will take the MOI in every discussion.
A little league team of course would only get talked about for a short time. Are they playing in the Olympics? No. But if that little league team played and beat the Mexican national team stocked with MLB players, like you said, you've got to be kidding if that wouldn't be talked about for longer than 2 days. A bunch of 12 year olds beating MLB players? I think that would get plenty of press.

And why would anyone in the USA be excited about Team Puerto Rico beating us in basketball?

*And just to reiterate, I agree. I this is a huge upset. One of the biggest the USA has ever had. But in certain contexts, it does not measure up to some.

[SonomaCat]

And why would anyone in the USA be excited about Team Puerto Rico beating us in basketball?

Yep, that question speaks to the point I was making. Patriotism/national pride was/is a HUGE part of our fondness for that hockey game ... especially since it was our arch-enemy and we were the underdog (and we had a lot of fear/anger/insecurity about the whole USSR thing and what it represented). Beating an ally today in any sport (regardless of the magnitude of the upset) will simply never have the same impact, so it's virtually impossible for us to objectively compare them ... especially since none of us is both an expert on soccer of today and hockey of the early 80s.

So I don't think it's really possible to compare any game to the MOI. It is the stuff of legend, and nothing can compete with that. It's kind of like Rudy, only without the self-promotion and money-grubbing and fraud and what-not.

As an aside, I'm not saying this soccer game is or isn't a bigger upset than the MOI -- I really have no idea and have no interest in arguing it either way. I just personally don't think one can really objectively compare the two (at least, very, very few people can) for the reasons I've outlined.

[GrizinWashington]

To ignore or even understate the national pride angle of the 1980 hockey win is ridiculous. While the upset itself was enormous (it was, after all, college kids beating long-time professionals), the lasting impact of the victory was virtually entirely due to the fact that it was the US vs. the Soviets. Frankly, in 1980, the nation had little going for it. The economy was terrible; we'd suffered through the gas shortages and felt at the mercy of the middle east; the Iran Hostage Situation was on-going and had sapped much of our national pride. Going into the Olympics, very few people cared one way or the other about our Olympic Hockey team. It was only after they had won a few games that people began to care. Suddenly they gave the people in the US hope.

Yes, if you consider it purely from a sports standpoint, the upset over the USSR was huge. But the indelible mark made by that team -- the reason we can all remember that day as if it was yesterday -- is because it gave us something to be proud of. Our boys had just beaten the professionals from the Soviet Union. Trust me, if the best hockey team in the world in 1980 had been France, and the US had upset them rather than the Soviets, no one today would remember, "Five seconds, four, three...Do you believe in Miracles? YEEEESSSS!".

[longhorn_22]

*Deleted post. Misread your post, BAC.*

[Billings_Griz]

No way was it bigger than the Miracle on Ice. HUGE win against Spain in soccer but nothing compared to that one hockey game.

Where were you when the USA beat the USSR? I was at a divisional bb tourney in Wolf Point when it was announced the the USA had won. The place (packed) went nuts. Still gives me goose bumps just thinking about it.

Oh, FWIW, Wolf Point, or NE MT in general, was not really a hot-bed for hockey back then.

[BelgradeBobcat]

I'm pretty excited about the US beating Spain. It is a significant accomplishment.

It's impossible to compare this to the Miracle on Ice though. However, one would wonder how the hockey team would have fared at a neutral venue? I think the home ice advantage in that situation was huge-I think the team was lifted by entire nation embracing them. But the upset over the USSR and going on the win the gold medal was on a whole different level.

The soccer team did win this game at a neutral venue against a Spanish team that hadn't lost in about 3 years. But our soccer players are all professionals now, and pretty much home grown-unlike our national teams in the 80's and most of the 90's that were made up of a bunch of college players and a few naturalized citizens (mostly aging veterans).

The Confederation's Cup is a tournament made up of the winners of each of the world's regions-plus the host nation South Africa. So it's a very exclusive tournament. We qualified by winning our region's title (the Gold Cup) with a 2-1 win over Mexico in Chicago in 2007. It's also kind of a dress rehearsal for the World Cup which will be in South Africa next summer.

The real excitement for me is world cup qualifying. So far the US is doing very well and should qualify easily barring a complete collapse. Our next world cup qualifier is on August 12 against Mexico at Azteca Stadium (seats about 105,000). Mexico almost never loses at Azteca, but they've been struggling mightily in qualifying so far this year-with a revolving door of head coaches, so this might be our year to beat them down there.

[Old Skool Cat]

I could give a rat's arse about either sport, hockey or soccer. They both bore me to tears. That said, the Miracle on Ice was definitely the greatest highlight in American sport. All the circumstances that played into it: the Olympics, amateurs vs. professionals, U.S. v. USSR, made that moment unrepeatable. The latest soccer victory for the U.S. is a great moment, but the odds of it happening again are much greater than the odds of the MOI ever taking place again.

[WORM]

i guess it is impossible to seperate the game itself from what it meant to people. this match probably wont be the most memorable win this year in the US. it was mearly an unbelievable upset. i did do a little research on the 80 hockey team as some1 hinted at doing. 13 of the players on the US team went on to play in the NHL. and there were 0 highschool players. 1 of the US players on the soccer team plays over seas professionally. every player on the spanish team plays professionally. now that my research is done i will leave this thread to be blasted again. i once again realize that this win means nothing and that no one cares. is this win bigger than appalacian state over michigan? i guess i should have started there so the responses wouldnt have got a heated us vs them mentality that everyone associates with the 80 olympics.

[AlphaGriz1]

Would the "Miracle on Ice" have been the "Miracle on Ice" if the USSR would have been our allies instead of our cold war nemesis?

C'mon Brad, this may rank as your absolute worst excuse to argue anything, and your propensity to argue any point is well known. The 'Miracle On Ice' was a bunch of amateur level hockey kids thrown together to represent the U.S.A. in the Winter Olympics against a government sanctioned team of professionals.

It truly was a "Miracle" against a government regime team.

I stay out of your pissing matches because you won't ever admit defeat, you just argue until everyone else says to hell with it and goes away. Sorry, bud, but it was a "Miracle" whether you saw it that way or not.

I ... see. I guess I was wrong to think that the Cold War had anything to do with our reaction to that game. That's why we get just as excited about Puerto Rico's basketball win over Team USA.

I agree it was a huge upset (and very exciting) ... but I think we all know it wouldn't have gotten "Miracle on Ice" legendary treatment were it not an American team defeating a team from America's arch-enemy in the Cold War. So it's impossible to compare it to any other game apples to apples without factoring in that element of the game that made it such a big deal (that was my point ... disagree if you wish -- I won't stop you).

I just think it is virtually impossible to compare any match to the "Miracle on Ice" because of the context of that game and the intense emotions surrounding that game due to the Cold War. The U.S. Little League team could beat the Mexican national baseball team stocked with MLB players, and we would note that it was a huge upset and talk about it for a day or two, but it would never attain the legendary status of that hockey game.

So no matter how big of an upset a soccer game would be today, most Americans would never put it on par with the "Miracle on Ice," even if they had no idea at all the magnitude of the soccer upset. It wouldn't matter. And given our emotional responses to that hockey match, that makes perfect sense.

Apologies to GOKATS and anyone else offended by me inserting these ideas and perspectives into the discussion.

Actually the cold war had absolutely nothing to do with the Miracle on Ice. It was a sporting event at the Olympics which are supposed to be a time of peace for all participating.

The USSR was the most dominating International hockey team of all time.

They won 21 International titles and Olympic titles from 1954-1991.

In 79 and 87 they beat the NHL-All star teams. (They won game 3 in 79, 6-0 over the NHL's best)

From the 56-88 Olympic games the Soviet team won 7 Gold medals (The USA beat them in 1960-1980,USSR won all the rest)

In 2008, the IIHF picked the Miracle on Ice as the top international hockey story of the past 100 years.

You dont even have to make an argument that this was the most dominating team in any sport over 30 years, they won almost everything they played in.

Then a bunch of college kids (who lost to the USSR team a few weeks earlier 10-3) beat a professional team of hockey players that rarely lose and had been playing together longer than most of the US players had been alive.

This was a HUGE upset because of the USSR dominance on hockey not because of the cold war.


There is just no comparison

Plus it is soccer a sport that if given the choice between the three, 100% of MEN would rather watch Family Feud or Judge Judy.

[AlphaGriz1]

i guess it is impossible to seperate the game itself from what it meant to people. this match probably wont be the most memorable win this year in the US. it was mearly an unbelievable upset. i did do a little research on the 80 hockey team as some1 hinted at doing. 13 of the players on the US team went on to play in the NHL. and there were 0 highschool players. 1 of the US players on the soccer team plays over seas professionally. every player on the spanish team plays professionally. now that my research is done i will leave this thread to be blasted again. i once again realize that this win means nothing and that no one cares. is this win bigger than appalacian state over michigan? i guess i should have started there so the responses wouldnt have got a heated us vs them mentality that everyone associates with the 80 olympics.

I forgot about whatever you were talking about in your first post in this thread about 2 sentences in.

It is not impossible to separate these games it is incredibly easy.

Our professional soccer team beat another team of professionals that are not dominating in soccer now let alone for the last 30 years.

College kids (AMATEURS) beat a professional juggernaut that had dominated the best professionals in the world for over 30 years won tournament after tournament, Olympics after Olympics.

USA beat the Soviets in Hockey in 1980 then beat Sweden to win the Gold medal.

We have a soccer team?

No comparison



Since you are hell bent on making a comparison try this one:

This win is comparable to whoever won between the Sham WOW guy and the hooker that bit his tongue.

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[CelticCat]

There is a big correlation between how memorable the Miracle on Ice was/is, and the fact that it was played during a very tense period in U.S. history against the country that caused much of this tension. Frankly ignoring this whole fact and trying to seperate the hockey game itself from the historical events surrounding the hockey game is just ignorant. If Britian would have been the 30 year hockey power that the USSR was, and we had beaten them, yes it would have been hugely memorable and significant. But what truly elevated it to legendary status was the patriotism displayed by the country for the hockey team. The team gave the country hope in a time when they had none. I think you severely underestimate how important sports are to this country; they give you something to root for when there is nothing else to root for.

Sports fans will remember the victory over Spain yesterday for years, decades. Americans will remember the victory over the USSR forever, sports fans or not.

Trust me I've slammed soccer as much as the next guy in the past, except I have respect for soccer players whereas Alpha has none. They are great athletes, and to think that a professional soccer player is only playing soccer because he couldn't make the curling team is an absolute joke. The only sport that Americans come close to rivaling Europe in fandom for "football" is indeed our football. They are absolutely insane for it over there. It bores the crap out of me, but I respect the sport. But then again I'm a respectful person, not a well-disguised troll.

[BelgradeBobcat]

1 of the US players on the soccer team plays over seas professionally.

Actually, most of the first choice national team starters play professionally overseas now-a-days-with noteable exceptions such as Landon Donovan who plays for the Los Angeles Galaxy. Quite a few started their pro career in Major League Soccer here in the US. One of the interesting things to watch is if any our national team players move on to bigger clubs/leagues as a result of the their peformance in the Confed Cup.

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