Team bashing.

[seataccat]

Thought it's time to run a poll about our Cat fans as this week will demonstrate how loyal to the institution and our team the fan base actually is. Now's when we wear our school colors, not when the team is on a roll.

You are a joke. I actually played for the Cats... Three year starter, four year letter winner and five year scholarshiped player. I saw the good and the bad. I played in front of a full house and an empty one, and during those lean years I am sure you had no problem finding an excuse to stay at home. I believe I am much more objective about the Cats than most on this site, and I have no qualms sharing my observations about our team. I didn't realize that if I wrote something perceived to be negative I would suddenly become a bandwagon or non-fan. You are the type of poster that challenges the purpose of sites like bobcatnation. This site was created to share thoughts, opinions, etc that are sometimes the same and sometimes different among fans. You have used your ability to post on this site to mute those that do not share your same opinions, and try to rally others around you to carry out your witch-hunt. This thread has one purpose- to make those that do not agree with you uncomfortable and have them quit posting their opinions. You are using this thread to silence those that do not share your opinions, and that sure the hell isn’t cool with me. If the moderators choose to implement a policy that does not allow any negative feedback about the Cats then so be it, but until then your attempts to format bobcatnation into a site that only express opinions you agree will surely meet resistance and I will be one of the first to call you out.

Good Post, now lets hear cat grad tell us that he wears his bobcat hat more than the rest of us.

[AlphaGriz1]

One more thing....I am sure you don't remember this, but when AG referred to MSU as an "average" program several months ago in here, I took great exception to that, and debated this with him at great length. I replied that over the past 5-6 years, we were in fact the 2nd best program in the BSC, and provided several stats to back that up. I probably defended our honor against AG's comments more vigorously than anyone else in BN. I am as loyal to the Cats as you or anyone else, but I am also realistic about our performance to date in 2007. I know that we have the potential to play much better for the balance of this season, but "having" potential and "reaching" your potential are two very different things.

I would be more optomistic if I felt that we had improved since the beginning of the season, when in reality, we have probably regressed, especially in certain areas such as the OL. Set aside the fact that we beat SUU by only 4 points, after we had all ridiculed the Griz for beating them by "only" 20. What really disturbed me about that game is that we let a team that was (or at least should be) clearly inferior to us, on our home field, march right down the field on that final drive. We didn't even slow them down, and they should have scored the winning TD, if not for a TERRIBLE throw by their QB, that their receiver had no chance to catch. That was when I came to the realization that maybe even our defense was not as good as everyone thought it was, because there is no way that we should have let a team like SUU move the ball that easily on a potential game-winning drive.

I know we had that horrific 3 game losing streak last season as well, but by game #6 last year, we had already turned the corner, having beaten a good NAU team on the road, and then dominating an even better PSU team the next week at home. Game #6 this year, by contrast, was our worst performance yet. I just wonder how many more weeks we will be saying "just wait until next week....I think the offense is just about ready to explode"? I was called on the carpet for referring to our 4-1 record being built upon a "cupcake" schedule, but let's review. Dixie....nuff said, WSU....perhaps slightly better than expected, but they are not a legitimate BSC title contender, ISU....clearly the 2nd worst team in the BSC, SUU....a team that had not come within 20 of anyone, until they played us. To be fair, I did see that they lost to YSU by only 1 yesterday, so they do seem to be improving, but they certainly would not finish higher than anyone in the BSC, except UNC and maybe ISU.

I accept your apology, now we can be friends again.

[AlphaGriz1]

I didn't vote since there wasn't a "none of the above" option.

Those guys are bad fans IMO.

Alpha
Your calling these guys bad fans?

You are a Griz fan right?

Are you not hoping that a 6-0 UM starts loosing so the coach will get fired and they will hire someone who'll win? I am a logical guy by nature and education but that seems illogical.

Is it because your a griz fan or do you just like to tell people "I told you so?"

Oh it's definitely because I like to say I told you so, didn't you catch my "I told you so post" that is in the smack section now?

Also, please stop with the dramatic BS. I have never and would never want the Griz to lose.

I am elated and confused that they are 6-0.

I understand that they out-athlete most teams because of the situations the coaching staff puts them in.

I want a coach at UM that improves the team each year instead of the mediocre approach we have now. We haven't exactly been blowing people away the last few years.

I think this team with the right coach would be intimidating and almost unbeatable.

After all that if you didn't get the sarcasm in my original post, what can I say?

[CPACAT]

I voted for JohnK because I know he will be wearing his Cat gear and supporting his team and I will bet all of the others will as well. I think this poll was in poor taste. Just because someone has an opinion that doesn't agree with your opinion is no reason to question their loyalty.

While I agree that their posts have been more negative than I would like, I think it is better to post your disagreement and reasons rather than resort to name calling.

I'll bet come Saturday every Cat fan on this board will be rooting for the Cats and wearing their gear even though we may not agree with where we are at as a team.

[AlphaGriz1]

That is what is cool about this board, you guys bitch and complain and usually don't call names and bash people on a personal level.

Much nicer than other boards where the drama queens rule the day.

[Weltercat]

I didn't vote since there wasn't a "none of the above" option.

Those guys are bad fans IMO.

Alpha
Your calling these guys bad fans?

You are a Griz fan right?

Are you not hoping that a 6-0 UM starts loosing so the coach will get fired and they will hire someone who'll win? I am a logical guy by nature and education but that seems illogical.

Is it because your a griz fan or do you just like to tell people "I told you so?"

Oh it's definitely because I like to say I told you so, didn't you catch my "I told you so post" that is in the smack section now?

Also, please stop with the dramatic BS. I have never and would never want the Griz to lose.

I am elated and confused that they are 6-0.

I understand that they out-athlete most teams because of the situations the coaching staff puts them in.

I want a coach at UM that improves the team each year instead of the mediocre approach we have now. We haven't exactly been blowing people away the last few years.

I think this team with the right coach would be intimidating and almost unbeatable.

After all that if you didn't get the sarcasm in my original post, what can I say?

Just jerkin' your chain alpha.

[AlphaGriz1]

It's all good Welter!

[John K]

I also feel Bailey/Kramer took so much abuse from fans for "unimaginative" play calling and "vanilla" offensive schemes, but at least in my view, our offense has not performed any better this season than last, at least so far.

So, just to clarify your comments ... if Kramer was still the coach and the team was in the exact same position as it is right now, would you be as proactive in your voicing of concerns about the team as you are now?

No...because despite the early season stumbles that we often had under Kramer, by this point in the season (game #6) we had always gotten it turned around already. Please refer to my earlier comment about the NAU/PSU games last year. I gritted my teeth as much as anyone when we stumbled out of the gate so often during Kramer's tenure, but I always tried to be patient, because we ALWAYS turned it around, BEFORE the halfway point of the season. Ash may get them turned around for the final 5 games this year as well, but we are now to a point in the season where it better happen sooner rather than later....like THIS week against Sac, which seems to be much improved over the past couple of years, and is by no means a "gimme", even at home.

So because the team hasn't already imploded this season and lost games it should have won in embarassing fashion, you are more concerned as opposed to the scenario that the team is 4-2 at this point in the season?

You seem to be manufacturing quite an elaborate theory under which to favorably compare Kramer/Bailey to Ash. I'm not really sure the situations are apples to apples comparisons.

It doesn't seem at all elaborate to me. We have scored 1 offensive TD in 4 of our 6 games this season. I don't believe that Bailey/Kramer's offense was ever that inept, and yet they were constantly criticized, while Ash/Ploessl seem to be getting a pass for results that are, at least in my view, completely unacceptable.

[El_Gato]

John K,

Please don't forget that Kramer got a season-long pass his first year as well (as do ALL new coaches).

I said it last spring when it was announced that Saucedo & DeCock were going to miss the season: Offensive line is probably THE most important unit on the field and we lost experience & depth before Ash ever even heard of MSU.

No offensive gameplan is going to be consistently effective if the Oline doesn't perform well. EWU really exploited our lack of experience up front and I fear PSU and the Griz will also pose significant tests for our front 5.

Given the lack of experience/depth of the Oline, I really have a hard time laying all or even much of our offensive struggles on Ash and/or Ploessl.

[grizzh8r]

I also feel Bailey/Kramer took so much abuse from fans for "unimaginative" play calling and "vanilla" offensive schemes, but at least in my view, our offense has not performed any better this season than last, at least so far.

So, just to clarify your comments ... if Kramer was still the coach and the team was in the exact same position as it is right now, would you be as proactive in your voicing of concerns about the team as you are now?

No...because despite the early season stumbles that we often had under Kramer, by this point in the season (game #6) we had always gotten it turned around already. Please refer to my earlier comment about the NAU/PSU games last year. I gritted my teeth as much as anyone when we stumbled out of the gate so often during Kramer's tenure, but I always tried to be patient, because we ALWAYS turned it around, BEFORE the halfway point of the season. Ash may get them turned around for the final 5 games this year as well, but we are now to a point in the season where it better happen sooner rather than later....like THIS week against Sac, which seems to be much improved over the past couple of years, and is by no means a "gimme", even at home.

So because the team hasn't already imploded this season and lost games it should have won in embarassing fashion, you are more concerned as opposed to the scenario that the team is 4-2 at this point in the season?

You seem to be manufacturing quite an elaborate theory under which to favorably compare Kramer/Bailey to Ash. I'm not really sure the situations are apples to apples comparisons.

... not to mention the fact that under Kramer in 2004 we started out 6-2, only to lose our last 3 in a row. My 2 cents.

[John K]

I also feel Bailey/Kramer took so much abuse from fans for "unimaginative" play calling and "vanilla" offensive schemes, but at least in my view, our offense has not performed any better this season than last, at least so far.

So, just to clarify your comments ... if Kramer was still the coach and the team was in the exact same position as it is right now, would you be as proactive in your voicing of concerns about the team as you are now?

No...because despite the early season stumbles that we often had under Kramer, by this point in the season (game #6) we had always gotten it turned around already. Please refer to my earlier comment about the NAU/PSU games last year. I gritted my teeth as much as anyone when we stumbled out of the gate so often during Kramer's tenure, but I always tried to be patient, because we ALWAYS turned it around, BEFORE the halfway point of the season. Ash may get them turned around for the final 5 games this year as well, but we are now to a point in the season where it better happen sooner rather than later....like THIS week against Sac, which seems to be much improved over the past couple of years, and is by no means a "gimme", even at home.

So because the team hasn't already imploded this season and lost games it should have won in embarassing fashion, you are more concerned as opposed to the scenario that the team is 4-2 at this point in the season?

You seem to be manufacturing quite an elaborate theory under which to favorably compare Kramer/Bailey to Ash. I'm not really sure the situations are apples to apples comparisons.

... not to mention the fact that under Kramer in 2004 we started out 6-2, only to lose our last 3 in a row. My 2 cents.

OK....OK....I should have said ALMOST always, because you are of course right about 2004. But how about 2002....ended with 4 straight wins including ending the streak against the Griz. 2003....Won 5 of last 6, including 2nd straight over UM. 2005 was mixed....bad loss to EWU followed by dominating victory over Griz. 2006....won 6 straight before very close loss in Missoula followed by 1st playoff victory in 22 years. Overall many more strong finishes than poor ones.

Look....I am not meaning to be negative towards Coach Ash and his staff, nor do I mean to imply that Kramer was the greatest coach since Vince Lombardi. I just expected more out of the Cats this season, than what I have seen thus far, and I find it somewhat ironic to be reading so many of the exact same comments/criticisms about the game planning and play calling this season, that I heard for so many years about Bailey/Kramer.

There is no doubt that we have the talent to finish strong again this year though, and here's hoping that it starts on Saturday against Sac. By the way, I have been at a meeting in Chicago all week, and have not kept up with news/weather back home. What is the forecast for Bozeman on Saturday?

[John K]

John K,

Please don't forget that Kramer got a season-long pass his first year as well (as do ALL new coaches).

I said it last spring when it was announced that Saucedo & DeCock were going to miss the season: Offensive line is probably THE most important unit on the field and we lost experience & depth before Ash ever even heard of MSU.

No offensive gameplan is going to be consistently effective if the Oline doesn't perform well. EWU really exploited our lack of experience up front and I fear PSU and the Griz will also pose significant tests for our front 5.

Given the lack of experience/depth of the Oline, I really have a hard time laying all or even much of our offensive struggles on Ash and/or Ploessl.

Yes, Kramer got a pass during his 0-11 first season, but remember that he played that season with at least 8 freshman in his starting lineup, and even more than that in the final few games. This year, on the other hand, we have so much more talent, experience, and depth than we did in 2000, that comparing these 2 seasons is definitely not "apples to apples".

I agree with your comments about the O-line for the most part, but wouldn't you agree that they performed admirably against TAM, and have not improved....maybe even regressed, since then? That is what bothers me the most....and yes, I am aware that the O-line is coached by a holdover from Kramer's staff. And I didn't necessarily expect the offense to be the BSC version of Brady-Moss and the NE Patriots, but I did expect them to score more than the 1 TD per game that they have managed in 4 of 6 games so far. I still believe that the talent is there to finish the season strong, but I agree with you that PSU and UM (I would probably add NAU to your list) will be difficult games for us to win, without significant improvement on both sides of the ball.

[grizzh8r]

I also feel Bailey/Kramer took so much abuse from fans for "unimaginative" play calling and "vanilla" offensive schemes, but at least in my view, our offense has not performed any better this season than last, at least so far.

So, just to clarify your comments ... if Kramer was still the coach and the team was in the exact same position as it is right now, would you be as proactive in your voicing of concerns about the team as you are now?

No...because despite the early season stumbles that we often had under Kramer, by this point in the season (game #6) we had always gotten it turned around already. Please refer to my earlier comment about the NAU/PSU games last year. I gritted my teeth as much as anyone when we stumbled out of the gate so often during Kramer's tenure, but I always tried to be patient, because we ALWAYS turned it around, BEFORE the halfway point of the season. Ash may get them turned around for the final 5 games this year as well, but we are now to a point in the season where it better happen sooner rather than later....like THIS week against Sac, which seems to be much improved over the past couple of years, and is by no means a "gimme", even at home.

So because the team hasn't already imploded this season and lost games it should have won in embarassing fashion, you are more concerned as opposed to the scenario that the team is 4-2 at this point in the season?

You seem to be manufacturing quite an elaborate theory under which to favorably compare Kramer/Bailey to Ash. I'm not really sure the situations are apples to apples comparisons.

... not to mention the fact that under Kramer in 2004 we started out 6-2, only to lose our last 3 in a row. My 2 cents.

OK....OK....I should have said ALMOST always, because you are of course right about 2004. But how about 2002....ended with 4 straight wins including ending the streak against the Griz. 2003....Won 5 of last 6, including 2nd straight over UM. 2005 was mixed....bad loss to EWU followed by dominating victory over Griz. 2006....won 6 straight before very close loss in Missoula followed by 1st playoff victory in 22 years. Overall many more strong finishes than poor ones.

Look....I am not meaning to be negative towards Coach Ash and his staff, nor do I mean to imply that Kramer was the greatest coach since Vince Lombardi. I just expected more out of the Cats this season, than what I have seen thus far, and I find it somewhat ironic to be reading so many of the exact same comments/criticisms about the game planning and play calling this season, that I heard for so many years about Bailey/Kramer.

There is no doubt that we have the talent to finish strong again this year though, and here's hoping that it starts on Saturday against Sac. By the way, I have been at a meeting in Chicago all week, and have not kept up with news/weather back home. What is the forecast for Bozeman on Saturday?

I can see what you mean - I know I complained about the lack of a running game the last few years, but the only consistent threat at RB Kramer ever had was Ryan Johnson and to some extent Bruce Molock. I think Demitrius Crawford is the closest thing we have had to a consistent running threat since 2003, and could be a star for us. However, in order for that to happen, he has got to see the field.

As for the weather this weekend, the latest I have heard is low 40's and rain (what else is new - another wet, sloppy game... )