Lets Face It

[crazycat]

My only argument is that people who make more money tend to be healthier and have a higher quality of life. If you can show me where graduates of UM make more money than graduates of MSU and therefore tend to lead healthier and have a better quality of life, I'd like to see that.

Right now I'm of an opinion, based on MSU having an engineering college and graduating hundreds of engineers every year, that MSU graduates as a whole have a higher median income, are better off financially immediately upon graduating and as the years go by. Of course, Dennis Washington (I assume he's a UM grad), would skew the average considerably. This would be a good case to look at the median income.

If MSU didn't have an engineering college, I'd say the schools would be relatively even in terms of salaries beyond graduation.

[MSU Toddler]

Because those people tended to be "better thinkers", and were more well-rounded.

different topic: i'd give you more "creative", but better depends on how you define. certainly wouldn't want a creative - right brained person thinking out the details of your company (been there - see that happen/fail on a daily basis). so again - down to perspective.

more well-rounde

again different topic: recent studies have shown that engineering is one of the least stressful occupations which is directly linked to quality of lifestyle.

[crazycat]

Medical careers are the highest paying of all jobs in the US. Neither school graduates students directly into the medical field, but both send students to medical schools. So that's hard to quantify.

It's also probably difficult to quantify what people end up doing after 5-10-15 years out of college. Some make money in fields outside their degree, some make good money and invest elsewhere and make more off that than they do their degree.

MSU is dominated by its College of Engineering. It and the courses that feed into it are the theme throughout the campus. Unlike law and medicine, you can move directly into the workforce with an engineering degree.

Obviously there are instances where people have no degree or advance a liberal arts degree to great heights, but in general engineering degrees provide the most immediate financial satisfaction in general.

[GrizinWashington]

My only argument is that people who make more money tend to be healthier and have a higher quality of life. If you can show me where graduates of UM make more money than graduates of MSU and therefore tend to lead healthier and have a better quality of life, I'd like to see that.

Right now I'm of an opinion, based on MSU having an engineering college and graduating hundreds of engineers every year, that MSU graduates as a whole have a higher median income, are better off financially immediately upon graduating and as the years go by. Of course, Dennis Washington (I assume he's a UM grad), would skew the average considerably. This would be a good case to look at the median income.

If MSU didn't have an engineering college, I'd say the schools would be relatively even in terms of salaries beyond graduation.

I CAN'T show you that. Just like you can't show me where msu grads make more than UM grads over the course of their lifetimes, or how that equates to making msu a better school.

And one final point: WHEN, precisely, did it become the primary role of a university to prepare someone to make more money?? That has NEVER been the role of a university, and it never SHOULD be the role of a university. The role should be to develop well-rounded, solid-thinking members of society, who are able to tackle the kinds of problems we face in this world. What you've described is a very good techincal college, for that is what they do: job training. If you're ranking a university solely on that, it's a university I don't want to attend.

(Denny is not a UM grad; his wife is)

[Eastcoastgriz]

eastcost: you are truly an ass - by your own admission. you are frankly irrelevant.

This is the smack board, is it not?? Mine is pretty tame smack. I think the truth mixed in the smack, hit a nerve???

So far we have one person that has read the magazine.

[Eastcoastgriz]

more well-rounde

That's what you get from a liberal arts degree.

[crazycat]

My only argument is that people who make more money tend to be healthier and have a higher quality of life. If you can show me where graduates of UM make more money than graduates of MSU and therefore tend to lead healthier and have a better quality of life, I'd like to see that.

Right now I'm of an opinion, based on MSU having an engineering college and graduating hundreds of engineers every year, that MSU graduates as a whole have a higher median income, are better off financially immediately upon graduating and as the years go by. Of course, Dennis Washington (I assume he's a UM grad), would skew the average considerably. This would be a good case to look at the median income.

If MSU didn't have an engineering college, I'd say the schools would be relatively even in terms of salaries beyond graduation.

I CAN'T show you that. Just like you can't show me where msu grads make more than UM grads over the course of their lifetimes, or how that equates to making msu a better school.

And one final point: WHEN, precisely, did it become the primary role of a university to prepare someone to make more money?? That has NEVER been the role of a university, and it never SHOULD be the role of a university. The role should be to develop well-rounded, solid-thinking members of society, who are able to tackle the kinds of problems we face in this world. What you've described is a very good techincal college, for that is what they do: job training. If you're ranking a university solely on that, it's a university I don't want to attend.

(Denny is not a UM grad; his wife is)

You're getting upset and I don't know why. I don't think money is the primary role of a university, not did I say that, but that's probably the easiest/least subjective thing to measure and since it has been shown to be a good measuring stick on a person's quality of life it seems like a logical way to go in this discussion. Is there anything else to use to quantify this discussion? What do you measure this with? About all we have is income of graduates, which you say evens out over time.

I've described a good technological college, not a technical college. MSU, like all colleges, trains students for jobs. They rarely do that solely, nor could they, because it isn't part of human nature to be so singularly focused. Whenever you bring together 10,000 students from a variety of backgrounds and cultures the palette of experiences abounds no matter how focused a college is toward one particular degree. Engineering isn't overwhelming the MSU campus, but it is very noticeable.

This is an good line and one I'm sure most universities buy into, including both MSU and UM.

The role should be to develop well-rounded, solid-thinking members of society, who are able to tackle the kinds of problems we face in this world.

[grizatwork]

Medical careers are the highest paying of all jobs in the US. Neither school graduates students directly into the medical field, but both send students to medical schools. So that's hard to quantify.

It's also probably difficult to quantify what people end up doing after 5-10-15 years out of college. Some make money in fields outside their degree, some make good money and invest elsewhere and make more off that than they do their degree.

MSU is dominated by its College of Engineering. It and the courses that feed into it are the theme throughout the campus. Unlike law and medicine, you can move directly into the workforce with an engineering degree.

Obviously there are instances where people have no degree or advance a liberal arts degree to great heights, but in general engineering degrees provide the most immediate financial satisfaction in general.

As a graduate of the University of Montana School of Physical Therapy, I am pretty sure I work in the medical field. I am pretty sure the Pharmacy graduates work in the medical field. I believe the nurses that graduate from MSU also work in the medical field as well.

[crazycat]

Medical careers are the highest paying of all jobs in the US. Neither school graduates students directly into the medical field, but both send students to medical schools. So that's hard to quantify.

It's also probably difficult to quantify what people end up doing after 5-10-15 years out of college. Some make money in fields outside their degree, some make good money and invest elsewhere and make more off that than they do their degree.

MSU is dominated by its College of Engineering. It and the courses that feed into it are the theme throughout the campus. Unlike law and medicine, you can move directly into the workforce with an engineering degree.

Obviously there are instances where people have no degree or advance a liberal arts degree to great heights, but in general engineering degrees provide the most immediate financial satisfaction in general.

As a graduate of the University of Montana School of Physical Therapy, I am pretty sure I work in the medical field. I am pretty sure the Pharmacy graduates work in the medical field. I believe the nurses that graduate from MSU also work in the medical field as well.

Right, but of all the professions within the medical field, especially the highest paying ones relative to that field, most need to go to medical school, do they not? I wasn't trying to degrade all profession within medicine. I should've been more clear.

Here's a list of the highest paying jobs, which is partly what I'm basing that statement on.

http://www.acinet.org/acinet/oview5.asp?Level=Overall

I realize this is the smack forum, but no need to get snippy. This thread has developed into a civil conversation about what makes a school a good one and what the measureables are to determine which provides an education that leads to the higher quality of lifestyle.

[GrizinWashington]

My dad can beat up your dad.

Now. Can we stop? PLLLLEEEEEEEEEAAAAAAASSSSSSSEEEEEE?

[crazycat]

My dad can beat up your dad.

Now. Can we stop? PLLLLEEEEEEEEEAAAAAAASSSSSSSEEEEEE?

My Dad is an old, decrepit man. So I'm sure your Dad could beat him up and if you're going to threaten me in this way, I guess I have no choice but to let you have your way and cease with what was once an attempt at a civil conversation.

[AlphaGriz1]

My only argument is that people who make more money tend to be healthier and have a higher quality of life. If you can show me where graduates of UM make more money than graduates of MSU and therefore tend to lead healthier and have a better quality of life, I'd like to see that.

Right now I'm of an opinion, based on MSU having an engineering college and graduating hundreds of engineers every year, that MSU graduates as a whole have a higher median income, are better off financially immediately upon graduating and as the years go by. Of course, Dennis Washington (I assume he's a UM grad), would skew the average considerably. This would be a good case to look at the median income.

If MSU didn't have an engineering college, I'd say the schools would be relatively even in terms of salaries beyond graduation.

So engineers and nurses make more than lawyers and pharmacists?

[MSU Toddler]

This is the smack board, is it not?? Mine is pretty tame smack. I think the truth mixed in the smack, hit a nerve???

So far we have one person that has read the magazine.

no nerve hit. i think that since you like to be an ass, no one can really take anything you say at face value - thus you are irrelevant.

besides, the same stuff can be said of the magazines that grizinwa quoted from. the difference between you and i is that i believe both universities are of great quality - where you are only posting / responding in an effort to discredit one . . . MSU. by doing so, you only make yourself look stupid and once again - irrelevant. hope that doesn't strike a nerve....

[GrizinWashington]

grizinwa quoted from

Well, Toddler, you and I certainly agree both universities are strong. But I've got to take exception about the credibility of the sources in post. The Princeton Review is THE ranking systems for colleges and universities.

[MSU Toddler]

The Princeton Review is THE ranking systems for colleges and universities.

agreed on the princeton review, but do you know the criteria on this particular survey / award? i would argue that this are NOT entirely academically based and are NOT based on independent assessment:

http://www.princetonreview.com/college/ ... nkings.asp

note: um is not on 2008 list - fyi

[GrizinWashington]

Actually, they are. But they're under "T " The Univ of Montana", not U for University or M for Montana. Not sure why they alphabetized as they did.

Here is the press release. I've highlighted key sections showing the schools were chosen primarily for academics.

Only about 15 percent of four-year colleges in the United States are listed in the Princeton Review’s “Best 366 Colleges,” and The University of Montana made the grade.

The rankings in the new 2008 edition are based on Princeton Review’s survey of 120,000 students. The top schools earn a two-page profile with student comments.

A summary of the UM survey said students are friendly and love Missoula, students are happy, everyone loves the Grizzlies, there is great off-campus food and the athletic facilities are great. One student wrote, “Missoula is like nowhere else in the world.”

Others wrote, “You can enjoy both ‘the outdoors and a great education’ at UM, a school that ‘is whatever you want it to be. It can be hiking and fishing, tailgating at Griz games and dancing at the Foresters’ Ball, earning a great education and experiencing new cultures abroad, or it can be a little bit of everything.’”

“The professors who ‘come to Missoula to give up the city and enjoy the mountains and outdoors’ are ‘available to students outside of class,’” another student commented. “‘They are amazing.’”

Two Montana schools made the list: UM and Montana Tech of UM.


“We chose schools for this book primarily for their outstanding academics,” said Robert Franek, Princeton Review’s vice president for publishing. “We evaluated them based on institutional data we collect about the schools, feedback from students attending them and our visits to schools over the years.”

UM also was named to Princeton Review’s lists of Best Western Colleges and Colleges With a Conscience.

Complete listings are online at http://princetonreview.com.

[cats2506]

Actually, they are. But they're under "M" for Montana, not U for University.

Here is the press release. I've highlighted key sections showing the schools were chosen primarily for academics.

Only about 15 percent of four-year colleges in the United States are listed in the Princeton Review’s “Best 366 Colleges,” and The University of Montana made the grade.

The rankings in the new 2008 edition are based on Princeton Review’s survey of 120,000 students. The top schools earn a two-page profile with student comments.

A summary of the UM survey said students are friendly and love Missoula, students are happy, everyone loves the Grizzlies, there is great off-campus food and the athletic facilities are great. One student wrote, “Missoula is like nowhere else in the world.”

Others wrote, “You can enjoy both ‘the outdoors and a great education’ at UM, a school that ‘is whatever you want it to be. It can be hiking and fishing, tailgating at Griz games and dancing at the Foresters’ Ball, earning a great education and experiencing new cultures abroad, or it can be a little bit of everything.’”

“The professors who ‘come to Missoula to give up the city and enjoy the mountains and outdoors’ are ‘available to students outside of class,’” another student commented. “‘They are amazing.’”

Two Montana schools made the list: UM and Montana Tech of UM.


“We chose schools for this book primarily for their outstanding academics,” said Robert Franek, Princeton Review’s vice president for publishing. “We evaluated them based on institutional data we collect about the schools, feedback from students attending them and our visits to schools over the years.”

UM also was named to Princeton Review’s lists of Best Western Colleges and Colleges With a Conscience.

Complete listings are online at http://princetonreview.com.

These are the best 366 schools out of how many, some deals like this are based on paying a registration or membership fee. How many schools were looked at to be brought down to top 366? I looked at the site and it really says nothing there. Usually a quality listing will show that these are the top 366 of x number of schools in the survey.

[Eastcoastgriz]

This is the smack board, is it not?? Mine is pretty tame smack. I think the truth mixed in the smack, hit a nerve???

So far we have one person that has read the magazine.

no nerve hit. i think that since you like to be an ass, no one can really take anything you say at face value - thus you are irrelevant.

besides, the same stuff can be said of the magazines that grizinwa quoted from. the difference between you and i is that i believe both universities are of great quality - where you are only posting / responding in an effort to discredit one . . . MSU. by doing so, you only make yourself look stupid and once again - irrelevant. hope that doesn't strike a nerve....

It didn't strick a nerve. I absolute agree both Universities are of Great Qualitiy. What I dont agree with is the notion that msu is a better university.

And speaking of being an ass, I'm not the one calling other posters names.

[GrizinWashington]

2506, if you question the validity of the Princeton Review, there is nothing I can do to help you. But I could perhaps suggest either a little knowledge or a little research PRIOR to posting.

[cats2506]

2506, if you question the validity of the Princeton Review, there is nothing I can do to help you. But I could perhaps suggest either a little knowledge or a little research PRIOR to posting.

I did look it over but I am not going to spend all night to not find and have you say the same thing, If its there show me.

HOW MANY SCHOOLS WERE CONSIDERED, AND IS THERE A MEMBERSHIP REQUIRMENT TO BE CONSIDERED?

If you cant give the info, conceed defeat.