Mike Kramer Fired...

[SenorWeezer]

the fizzles announced this morning that they too were firing Mike Kramer as he is personally responsible for the actions of all football recruits/players within a 3,000 mile radius of the state of Montana.

[old wise one]

When are the Kramer supporters going to realize that he was fired for more than the athlete/former athletes arrests?

Our Football team's academic performance was a joke, and an embarassment to our fine institution. And it wasn't getting better, it was getting worse. Our discipline on the field was a joke as well, anyone remember Chadron St? How many black eyes are you willing to put up with to keep Kramer? Me, I had one too many a few years ago.

Although I have never been a Peter guy, the right thing was done for our football program and university. We needed leadership, not a used car salesman. I just wish Peter could have made the decision a few years ago.

[Cat Pride]

When are the Kramer supporters going to realize that he was fired for more than the athlete/former athletes arrests?

Our Football team's academic performance was a joke, and an embarassment to our fine institution. And it wasn't getting better, it was getting worse. Our discipline on the field was a joke as well, anyone remember Chadron St? How many black eyes are you willing to put up with to keep Kramer? Me, I had one too many a few years ago.

Although I have never been a Peter guy, the right thing was done for our football program and university. We needed leadership, not a used car salesman. I just wish Peter could have made the decision a few years ago.

Well said, well said. Just to clarify, Kramer was fired "Without Cause" officially. However, the underlying reason was absolutely academics. Academics cannot be stressed enough, and is not stressed enough.

Kramer apologists, please move on. Mike did great job selling the program and injecting life back into the fan base (and I think most everyone respects him for that), but he seriously dropped the ball in terms of discipline and holding players accountable for their actions. If not for a win against the Griz here and there, and a playoff victory last year, Kramer would have been fired long ago.

[Billings_Griz]

Although I have never been a Peter guy,

[MSUcantouchus]

When are the Kramer supporters going to realize that he was fired for more than the athlete/former athletes arrests?

Our Football team's academic performance was a joke, and an embarassment to our fine institution. And it wasn't getting better, it was getting worse. Our discipline on the field was a joke as well, anyone remember Chadron St? How many black eyes are you willing to put up with to keep Kramer? Me, I had one too many a few years ago.

Although I have never been a Peter guy, the right thing was done for our football program and university. We needed leadership, not a used car salesman. I just wish Peter could have made the decision a few years ago.

When will people realize that Peter Feilds fired him after an arrest not after someone was suspended for academic reasons. So maybe he should have stated it was for academics also instead of what he actually said.

[Cat Pride]

When are the Kramer supporters going to realize that he was fired for more than the athlete/former athletes arrests?

Our Football team's academic performance was a joke, and an embarassment to our fine institution. And it wasn't getting better, it was getting worse. Our discipline on the field was a joke as well, anyone remember Chadron St? How many black eyes are you willing to put up with to keep Kramer? Me, I had one too many a few years ago.

Although I have never been a Peter guy, the right thing was done for our football program and university. We needed leadership, not a used car salesman. I just wish Peter could have made the decision a few years ago.

When will people realize that Peter Feilds fired him after an arrest not after someone was suspended for academic reasons. So maybe he should have stated it was for academics also instead of what he actually said.

For one, Fields and Gamble cannot state reasons why Kramer was fired after firing him under the "Without Cause" part of his contract. People may have said this was wrong with the program, and this was wrong, but I have not heard anyone say, "This is why Mike was fired".

Secondly, if anyone thinks Mike was fired solely because of Gatewood or the drugs thing... you are sorely mistaken.

[old wise one]

When are the Kramer supporters going to realize that he was fired for more than the athlete/former athletes arrests?

Our Football team's academic performance was a joke, and an embarassment to our fine institution. And it wasn't getting better, it was getting worse. Our discipline on the field was a joke as well, anyone remember Chadron St? How many black eyes are you willing to put up with to keep Kramer? Me, I had one too many a few years ago.

Although I have never been a Peter guy, the right thing was done for our football program and university. We needed leadership, not a used car salesman. I just wish Peter could have made the decision a few years ago.

When will people realize that Peter Feilds fired him after an arrest not after someone was suspended for academic reasons. So maybe he should have stated it was for academics also instead of what he actually said.

Was it coincidence that Gatewood was arrested around the same time that Spring semester grades came out? Yes. Was it conicidence that Kramer was fired around the same time as the spring semester grades came out? No.

I can tell you that the lack of discipline regarding academics was a huge reason the big human was sent packing. The Gatewood arrest just gave them the opportunity to make it look good in the public eye.

When you look at the four candidates who interviewed for the coaching position, I think we can all agree that Ash seemed to be leaps and bounds ahead of the other 3 when it came to his academic plan. Do you think it's coincidence that he was hired? I say not. All the conspiracy theorist can speculate that Lennon and Van Diest turned the job down and we were left with Ash, but I would be willing to bet a large sum of money that Ash was number one from the outset.

You can back Kramer, and that's fine, but you should really do a little checking around if you think the Gatewood arrest caused the firing.

[bobcatmaniac]

The more I read and discuss, the more I agree with you.

[Cat Pride]

When are the Kramer supporters going to realize that he was fired for more than the athlete/former athletes arrests?

Our Football team's academic performance was a joke, and an embarassment to our fine institution. And it wasn't getting better, it was getting worse. Our discipline on the field was a joke as well, anyone remember Chadron St? How many black eyes are you willing to put up with to keep Kramer? Me, I had one too many a few years ago.

Although I have never been a Peter guy, the right thing was done for our football program and university. We needed leadership, not a used car salesman. I just wish Peter could have made the decision a few years ago.

When will people realize that Peter Feilds fired him after an arrest not after someone was suspended for academic reasons. So maybe he should have stated it was for academics also instead of what he actually said.

Was it coincidence that Gatewood was arrested around the same time that Spring semester grades came out? Yes. Was it conicidence that Kramer was fired around the same time as the spring semester grades came out? No.

I can tell you that the lack of discipline regarding academics was a huge reason the big human was sent packing. The Gatewood arrest just gave them the opportunity to make it look good in the public eye.

When you look at the four candidates who interviewed for the coaching position, I think we can all agree that Ash seemed to be leaps and bounds ahead of the other 3 when it came to his academic plan. Do you think it's coincidence that he was hired? I say not. All the conspiracy theorist can speculate that Lennon and Van Diest turned the job down and we were left with Ash, but I would be willing to bet a large sum of money that Ash was number one from the outset.

You can back Kramer, and that's fine, but you should really do a little checking around if you think the Gatewood arrest caused the firing.

Old wise one... as your name states, you are wise beyond your years. People need to hear this message, because even though Kramer was fired "Without Cause" this is numero uno reason why Kramer was let go.

After all, what are these kids here for? To graduate with a top notch education, or beat the Griz, win a national championship? Obviously everyone wants to win football games, but not at the expense of kids flunking out of school. Academics and character are not supposed to take a back seat to results on the grid iron.

[MSUcantouchus]

It seems that he was really fired for several reasons, but, and this is a big but, no one can deny the tone and terms Feilds used in the press conference were in relation to what had happened crime wise.

from chronicle

MSU athletic director Peter Fields said he made the decision Friday morning to fire Kramer, after consulting with MSU President Geoff Gamble and vice president for student affairs Allen Yarnell. Fields said Gamble and Yarnell agreed that the cumulative effects of the football program's troubles pointed to a "crisis in leadership."

"There is something broken with our football program, and we need to take decisive steps to fix it," Fields said during a hastily called news conference Friday afternoon.

"What's been happening is a black cloud over all our kids," Fields said. "You feel bad for the athletes. You feel bad for the staff that has worked so hard. They get painted with a brush that they're part of a drug university, when it's far from the truth. But that is the perception that is out there, so we need to change that perception."

Kramer could not be reached for comment Friday.

But five of his former players have been arrested on drug charges and another has been charged with murder in the past year.

"Whatever these problems are, we can't stay in this trajectory," Gamble said Friday. "These problems are linked directly to our university in people's minds. Perception is reality."

The general tone speaks to the drug problems not academics. Now in hindsight you can try and put academics in to some of their general statements but you would never pull that out of their just by what they said and what they were referring too.

Academics seem to be the most logical way to present the firing as justified right now.

My point is this I don't want the administration to tell me they fired Kramer for academics when the firing came only after these charges against Gatewood and they made no comments in the press conference or to the papers about academics.

-Lets move on, but lets remember what really happened.

[SonomaCat]

When are the Kramer supporters going to realize that he was fired for more than the athlete/former athletes arrests?

Our Football team's academic performance was a joke, and an embarassment to our fine institution. And it wasn't getting better, it was getting worse. Our discipline on the field was a joke as well, anyone remember Chadron St? How many black eyes are you willing to put up with to keep Kramer? Me, I had one too many a few years ago.

Although I have never been a Peter guy, the right thing was done for our football program and university. We needed leadership, not a used car salesman. I just wish Peter could have made the decision a few years ago.

When will people realize that Peter Feilds fired him after an arrest not after someone was suspended for academic reasons. So maybe he should have stated it was for academics also instead of what he actually said.

It was also shortly after the NCAA announced the most recent scholarships losses as well as immediately after grades came in for the spring.

Bad timing all around, but certainly the confluence of SEVERAL embarassing developments for MSU.

[Cat Pride]

My point is this I don't want the administration to tell me they fired Kramer for academics when the firing came only after these charges against Gatewood and they made no comments in the press conference or to the papers about academics.

-Lets move on, but lets remember what really happened.

Agree that it is time to move on... but please, and I cant stress this enough, your perception of why Kramer was fired, and the real reason he was fired are not the same. Drugs were the press headline, but academics is the undertoe which sucked him in. Administration cannot comment on the firing because of the "without cause" other than to state things that are fundamentally wrong with the program. Also, Fields/Gamble are not the people to drag Kramer's name through the mud - may have to happen if this lawsuit comes around though. And nobody on here is saying the entire PR portion of the firing was handled correctly.

Just as Old Wise One stated, Gatewood being arrested the day before the firing is complete coincidence, and administration knew since December that more was to come with the drugs - although they may not have known it was to be this big - but they knew more was to come and more may still come.

And again, as Old Wise One stated, it is NOT a coincidence that grades came out a week or so before Mike was fired. APR was recalculated, more kids flunk out and are ineligible, if 2 more years of this crap goes on, the ENTIRE athletic department could be in jeopardy of losing its Division I status if Kramer stayed on this path of win at all costs.

Kramer was fired due to lack of discipline in the program, and complete failure in the classroom by a growing number of kids each year.

[Au Blue]

My point is this I don't want the administration to tell me they fired Kramer for academics when the firing came only after these charges against Gatewood and they made no comments in the press conference or to the papers about academics.

-Lets move on, but lets remember what really happened.

Agree that it is time to move on... but please, and I cant stress this enough, your perception of why Kramer was fired, and the real reason he was fired are not the same. Drugs were the press headline, but academics is the undertoe which sucked him in. Administration cannot comment on the firing because of the "without cause" other than to state things that are fundamentally wrong with the program. Also, Fields/Gamble are not the people to drag Kramer's name through the mud - may have to happen if this lawsuit comes around though. And nobody on here is saying the entire PR portion of the firing was handled correctly.

Just as Old Wise One stated, Gatewood being arrested the day before the firing is complete coincidence, and administration knew since December that more was to come with the drugs - although they may not have known it was to be this big - but they knew more was to come and more may still come.

And again, as Old Wise One stated, it is NOT a coincidence that grades came out a week or so before Mike was fired. APR was recalculated, more kids flunk out and are ineligible, if 2 more years of this crap goes on, the ENTIRE athletic department could be in jeopardy of losing its Division I status if Kramer stayed on this path of win at all costs.

Kramer was fired due to lack of discipline in the program, and complete failure in the classroom by a growing number of kids each year.

Then why didn't Fields just say it boiled down to academics? Plain and simple, he should have said Kramer was being fired for lack of academic leadership. It's not that hard to do.

[Cat Pride]

Then why didn't Fields just say it boiled down to academics? Plain and simple, he should have said Kramer was being fired for lack of academic leadership. It's not that hard to do.

He couldnt because of the "without cause" part of Kramer's contract. Because Mike was fired under this cause, the administration cannot give reason for the firing. Now, they stated plenty of ways what was wrong with the program, but have never said, "Mike was fired because .... "

Fields wont say academics to the press because he is not going to drag Kramer through the mud. Everyone knows about the drugs already, Fields felt compelled to leave it at that. But for those who sit down with Peter or have gone to any of the booster functions over the last month will know the undertones of the firing.

True, this is not hard to do, to justify the firing and communicate that to MSU fan base... Peter did not do a good job in communicating this event, nor has he done a very good job handling it. But it is what it is, and Peter flat out is simply not a great communicator.

[MSUcantouchus]

If it was for a bunch of things, which it seems to be, then they should have said so. They made it seem like it was only for the players crimes.

[Cat Pride]

If it was for a bunch of things, which it seems to be, then they should have said so. They made it seem like it was only for the players crimes.

Again, they couldnt and cant say anything more out of contractual obligation. (or at least this is how its been explained to me, not being a lawyer)

They wouldnt say anything more out of respect for Kramer. (directly told to me by Dr. Gamble and Peter Fields)

What's done is done... we need to move on. But what we all need to understand is that this was more an academic issue than anything else. The press is the main culprit for making this look like players crimes and not academic failures.

[DriftCat]

Then why didn't Fields just say it boiled down to academics? Plain and simple, he should have said Kramer was being fired for lack of academic leadership. It's not that hard to do.

He couldnt because of the "without cause" part of Kramer's contract. Because Mike was fired under this cause, the administration cannot give reason for the firing. Now, they stated plenty of ways what was wrong with the program, but have never said, "Mike was fired because .... "

Fields wont say academics to the press because he is not going to drag Kramer through the mud. Everyone knows about the drugs already, Fields felt compelled to leave it at that. But for those who sit down with Peter or have gone to any of the booster functions over the last month will know the undertones of the firing.

True, this is not hard to do, to justify the firing and communicate that to MSU fan base... Peter did not do a good job in communicating this event, nor has he done a very good job handling it. But it is what it is, and Peter flat out is simply not a great communicator.

And that is exactly the reason MSU is being sued. You cannot fire a person "without cause" and then turn to the media and say there is a "crisis in leadership" and "there is something broken with our football program." If it was academics, say he was fired because of academic problems. If it was because of the drug problems, say as much. It probably was the right decision to fire Kramer, but it was handle is an extremely poor manner and that is what upsets most people.

[old wise one]

What do you think the statement "crisis in leadership" pertains to?

Kramer was hired to provide leadership on the football field, in the class room and in the community. If he was fired for a lack of leadership, we should be able to deduce that he was negligent in all of the above.