Recruiting For All The Sports

John Wayne · Post by **John Wayne** » Fri Apr 15, 2005 3:54 pm

Bleedinbluengold-
No since on suggesting me to change the name my parrents gave me when I was born maybe you should put your given name on here so we know just who you are. Second you suggesting that athletes that have the talent to play post hs do in state, I agree and I am glad that they have that oppertunity but not taking away from NAIA or DII i wish they could play DI-A or AA in football. There are a lot of great athletes that play DII and NAIA because they did not get the scholarship out of HS from us or UM and would be valuable assets to either school. I think that MSU misses on them because coaches doubt the talent of MT kids. you can not be certain how anyone will turn out but I wish MSU would give more in state kids a shot. Another thing I will always be loyal to MSU and if they recruited all out of state kids or every kid from canada I would not hold back and I would continue to support the athletic program at MSU. I did not explain myself well enough for people to understand what I was trying to say. I do think it is a shame that we recruit for tennis and ski the way we do. I don't care about wins or losses in either of those sports and would donate more money to get better coaches if that is what it took to develope MT kids to be able to compete at the level we do. I know you can not just win in every sport with all MT kids I just feel a lot are lost in the wash because there is not a push to get them and second people doubt their ability. How many kids from both Carrols basketball teams and the football team would you want on the MSU roster. Seems to me that the kids at Carrol sure do know how to compete and win!!

Bleedinbluengold · Post by **Bleedinbluengold** » Fri Apr 15, 2005 3:55 pm

Bay Area Cat wrote: Xenophobia?

INDEED! so noted.

John Wayne · Post by **John Wayne** » Fri Apr 15, 2005 4:11 pm

Some of you think that you are real funny and bring up xenophobia, that was not the intent!!!!!! I can not see how or where i mentioned something like this or where you got this idea. This is bull sh#$ and wrong of you to even assume that i guess you are the ones who can not be open minded about other ideas. Can any of you not and see where another person might be comming from. I am sorry to have brought this subject up and did not mean to start to bring ideas as you are suggesting I have.

Bleedinbluengold · Post by **Bleedinbluengold** » Fri Apr 15, 2005 4:17 pm

John Wayne wrote:I want MSU to be as competitive as it can in all sports but if we were not as successful because we relied on in state kids or US kids, I would rather have that then a 100 Big Sky Championships from kids that don't even speak english.

It may not be our duty to provide education past high school but I would rather give money to a in state kid vs. one from south america, canada, or LA.

So what it sounds like is that people are different from me and don't care that MT state money and donations from motana to provide scholorships and athletic oppertunities are used for kids from out of the US.

Exactly which part am I misunderstanding? Like I said, I don't really know how else to interpret your exact words.

Post by **SonomaCat** » Fri Apr 15, 2005 4:25 pm

John Wayne wrote:Some of you think that you are real funny and bring up xenophobia, that was not the intent!!!!!! I can not see how or where i mentioned something like this or where you got this idea. This is bull sh#$ and wrong of you to even assume that i guess you are the ones who can not be open minded about other ideas. Can any of you not and see where another person might be comming from. I am sorry to have brought this subject up and did not mean to start to bring ideas as you are suggesting I have.

Yeah, we are the close-minded ones because we don't believe in discriminating against people who grew up outside of the geographic lines that define the state of Montana.

Actually, your very own words are the exact definition of Xenophobia. Either you have to accept that the title fits your philosophy, or you have to change your words.

iaafan · Post by **iaafan** » Fri Apr 15, 2005 4:29 pm

Speaking of out of state. I hope no one from out of state is reading this thread. This is embarrassing. Unfortunately, world, I have to admit there are a lot of people in Montana who think this way. Perhaps something good can come from this and there will be one less when all is said and done.

Post by **SonomaCat** » Fri Apr 15, 2005 4:43 pm

iaafan wrote:Speaking of out of state. I hope no one from out of state is reading this thread. This is embarrassing. Unfortunately, world, I have to admit there are a lot of people in Montana who think this way. Perhaps something good can come from this and there will be one less when all is said and done.

I like that way of thinking -- this isn't a debate, it's an intervention!

badasscat · Post by **badasscat** » Fri Apr 15, 2005 5:06 pm

Well this "john wayne" guy has one hell of a way of looking at things. I happen to be one of those out af state scholly kids he speaks so eloquently about, I also happen to be African American. So what I have to say about his comments should not surprise anyone. I have never in my life heard more racist comments come from one person, at one time, disguised as concern for the "poor underserved" MT HS athletes. This guy is a joke. Honestly when I was being recruited to play a MSU the only reservations that I had were that I would hear trash like john wayne is spoutting. I loved and love MT, and although I don't live there now, I will be living there this summer. Anyone who thinks that MT would not be a better place by being more diverse is an IDIOT. Sorry about rambling and flying off the rocker a bit but this guy has pissed me off. By the way I donate to MSU every year and am happy to see that my money is going to deserving kids from all over the globe.

John Wayne · Post by **John Wayne** » Fri Apr 15, 2005 5:11 pm

I am not a racist or do I hold grudges for those that are different color, speak different languages, or come from different places. I just wish that MSU would give a better look at mt kids. I know that we need out of state kids to win in the big sky and I am all for that. However I don't think that MT kids get a fair shake at playing at MSU. I believe that certain coaches think that kids from different geographic regions are better then kids from MT cause of where they are from. Everyone knows that MSU football does not give kids from California 1/2 scholorships and none walk on to stay but a lot of MT kids get 1/2 or nothing to start and stick it out. Why do we get those MT kids cause that have a dream to be a bobcat and they love this state. They are bobcats to the fullest of what being a bobcat stands for. So I was not intending their to be race issues or geographic blindness for other kids, I just wondered how people felt about this. I feel that MT kids are the ones who get the discrimination of being white, slow, and not athletic, where if you are from callifornia you must be gods gift to MSU football. Also we are the ag school and a good one so why not give the kids from the ag state a chance. I was just pulling for a few more MT kids to get the oppertunity to play at MSU that is all.

Post by **SonomaCat** » Fri Apr 15, 2005 5:56 pm

John Wayne wrote:I am not a racist or do I hold grudges for those that are different color, speak different languages, or come from different places. I just wish that MSU would give a better look at mt kids. I know that we need out of state kids to win in the big sky and I am all for that. However I don't think that MT kids get a fair shake at playing at MSU. I believe that certain coaches think that kids from different geographic regions are better then kids from MT cause of where they are from. Everyone knows that MSU football does not give kids from California 1/2 scholorships and none walk on to stay but a lot of MT kids get 1/2 or nothing to start and stick it out. Why do we get those MT kids cause that have a dream to be a bobcat and they love this state. They are bobcats to the fullest of what being a bobcat stands for. So I was not intending their to be race issues or geographic blindness for other kids, I just wondered how people felt about this. I feel that MT kids are the ones who get the discrimination of being white, slow, and not athletic, where if you are from callifornia you must be gods gift to MSU football. Also we are the ag school and a good one so why not give the kids from the ag state a chance. I was just pulling for a few more MT kids to get the oppertunity to play at MSU that is all.

The more you talk, the more you reinforce what everyone is accusing you of.

Nobody is discriminating against Montana kids. As I clearly stated before, they already get preferential treatment during the recruitment process as it is cheaper and easier for coaches to recruit them. That gives MT kids an automatic leg up in the process. Coaches are paid to do as much as they can with the budgets they have. As a result, they are going to get the best athletes they can with their limited dollars. This itself guarantees that the only basis upon which an athlete from MT will be discriminated against is their talent level. And that is a form of discrimination that is proper and completely appropriate.

Nothing makes me prouder than to hear of MSU signing a quality foreign student-athlete. That tells me that my alma mater and home state are appealing enough to a person from around a globe that they want to spend their precious college years contributing to the success of that University and adding to the diversity of ideas and cultures that makes Bozeman one of the brightest spots in Montana (although it still needs much, much more). That is a very cool thing.

Back to one of your comments from before, exactly what athletes are you aware of that don't speak English? It seems like it would be pretty hard to pass many classes with that disposition. In all likelihood, I bet most of the foreign students have a stronger mastery of the English language than most Americans. We're the freaks who can only speak one language (myself humbly included).

BTW, out tennis team rocks this season, which is great, and yes, some of those players are foreign-born players. The cool thing is, they are OUR foreign-born players. Once they come to MSU, they are no longer really foreigners, or out-of-staters, or Montanans, or black or white or green or purple ... they are BOBCATS!!!!

DCC2MSU · Post by **DCC2MSU** » Sat Apr 16, 2005 7:06 pm

The question I have is do you feel that Montanans don't have the right to accept scholarships (athletic or academic) in other states? I know a lot of people who play sports in ND from Montana on scholarship. What about baseball players who are good enough to play at Stanford or Wichita State (2 great baseball schools) - and Billings/Huntley have had a few. Should they be forced to give up baseball or play at a JUCO in-state? Until recently you didn't even have the option of playing at a JUCO. MSU-Billings will be the first 4-year baseball program but I really don't think they will be on the same level as Stanford any time soon. It can't be a double standard, if you are going to ban nonresidents from participating here - we wouldn't have any options in other states either.

Post by **SonomaCat** » Sun Apr 17, 2005 5:15 pm

I assume the author of this letter is familiar with this thread:

http://bozemandailychronicle.com/articl ... s/logo.txt

MSU01 · Post by **MSU01** » Sun Apr 17, 2005 7:11 pm

I get rather annoyed at the criticism of the tennis team for having too many international players and not "enough" Montana kids on the rosters. If you aren't familiar with how collegiate tennis works, look at a few team rosters on this site. Virtually all teams rely heavily on international players to fill out their roster. If you want a MSU tennis team that consistently finishes at the bottom of the conference instead of one that is currently in the national rankings, then by all means give all the scholarships to Montana players. Also, the comment about international athletes "not being able to speak English" is absurd, as international students are required to take a test to prove that they are proficient in English before even being admitted into the school.

I love seeing as many Montana athletes as possible on MSU sports teams, but this is a very small state population-wise. If we want our teams to be competitive, in most cases there is no alternative but to supplement the best Montana athletes with ones from out of the state or out of the country.

kfrog · Post by **kfrog** » Sun Apr 17, 2005 7:51 pm

I watch both the cats and the Saints, there are a lot of montana kids on the Saints, many of them are D-1 dropdowns, they have a lot of success at their level, but in the whole frontier confrence, due to size and speed there are very few that could be competative at the Big Sky level on a consitant level. And as for sports such as tennis, i can only think of one montana player that was competitive at the national level in the last 3 years.

Cat Grad · Post by **Cat Grad** » Sun Apr 17, 2005 11:04 pm

Oh well...I'd like to take Johnny to Georgia and let him run a stopwatch at one of the high school combines, measure the verticals, how many benches the kid does...and then get pizzed because the kid has to go the j.c. route or is just a partial qualifier. Damn, I can't believe I was stupid enough to respond to such B.S. again

Has Johnny said whether or not he lives in N.W. Montana or not...I'm not in the mood to read all of the threads

spike · Post by **spike** » Tue Apr 19, 2005 10:34 am

I am sure that every school in the nation and around the world has the same concern....are we giving our own students a chance at our own scholarships? The answer in my mind is yes and that every school also wants the best bang for their buck. If the local athlete is worthy, he or she will receive the scholarship...but possibly the local athlete does not want to attend a homestate school. I personally do not think that Montana athletes are purposely being overlooked. Another twist to this concern are the coaches and AD...look who is doing the recruiting. MSU just lost a very good coach, who by the way was a home grown Montana product, in Jerry Wagner.

Recruiting For All The Sports

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