serious question

Robcat · Post by **Robcat** » Thu Nov 18, 2004 10:16 am

Cardiac, Kramer knows more about defense than any coach on the team and has more experience at D than all of the coaches combined, and we did not use a man to man last weekend. It was a zone defense, much to Kramers disliking. Will we see a man to man this weekend? I do not know? A zone D is often used when you have weak secondary, which we have, and the D coach convinced Kramer that was the scheme he needed to use. I don't think Kramer was happy with the zone D and will probably change it for the Cat/Griz game. Kramer feels its defense that wins games and last weekend is a classic example of that philosphy.

CARDIAC_CATS · Post by **CARDIAC_CATS** » Thu Nov 18, 2004 3:51 pm

Robcat wrote:Cardiac, Kramer knows more about defense than any coach on the team and has more experience at D than all of the coaches combined, and we did not use a man to man last weekend. It was a zone defense, much to Kramers disliking. Will we see a man to man this weekend? I do not know? A zone D is often used when you have weak secondary, which we have, and the D coach convinced Kramer that was the scheme he needed to use. I don't think Kramer was happy with the zone D and will probably change it for the Cat/Griz game. Kramer feels its defense that wins games and last weekend is a classic example of that philosphy.

Zone defense? If that was zone, then there were huge gaps in it. It sure looked like corners man to man on their guys with 1 safety back? I may be wrong, but that didn't look like any zone I've ever seen? What does anyone else think on this? Zone defense you are passing your outside guys back into your safeties and this was definately not the case last week. The corners were running stride for stride (and many times 2-3 strides to far back) with the WR on the outside. If that was zone, then there should have been over the top safety help I would think as that would have been part of their zone to cover.

And yes, I'm sure Kramer does no a lot more about football than I do, but it sure looked like our corners were in man to man for a LOT of the game. Of course, then again ... I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express last weekend.

Robcat · Post by **Robcat** » Thu Nov 18, 2004 4:28 pm

Sorry if I sounded rude, not my intent. At this weeks QB lunch, Kramer bitched the whole time about how our kids were out of position in the zone defense, in particular the safetys. He felt that they did not understand the zone and were not in position. It was apparent that he is does not like a zone D. And from an experience standpoint, what I meant was, in terms of experience, from a coaching standpoint, its Kramer whom has the most experience with D. He was very disapointed in the zone D last Saturday.

CARDIAC_CATS · Post by **CARDIAC_CATS** » Thu Nov 18, 2004 4:32 pm

Robcat wrote:Sorry if I sounded rude, not my intent. At this weeks QB lunch, Kramer bitched the whole time about how our kids were out of position in the zone defense, in particular the safetys. He felt that they did not understand the zone and were not in position. It was apparent that he is does not like a zone D. And from an experience standpoint, what I meant was, in terms of experience, from a coaching standpoint, its Kramer whom has the most experience with D. He was very disapointed in the zone D last Saturday.

I think we were misunderstanding each other

That explains it then ... as it sure didn't look like well played zone to me

I got ya now. That almost makes me feel a little better then about this week if this is indeed the case. Definately go back to man to man then I think then. I really would like FORCE to play some more corner for us, but I guess that isn't to be now that Austin is healthy. Boy, it sure seemed like our secondary improved a lot back there when Force was moved up there???? Kramer gets to watch all the video though so I'm sure he knows where to line up the best guys talent wise so I'll just go with that.

grizhatr · Post by **grizhatr** » Thu Nov 18, 2004 4:57 pm

Your right, and that my friend is why he had some interceptions in those earlier games, and they have now ceased. Different positioning.

raincat · Post by **raincat** » Thu Nov 18, 2004 5:19 pm

Let's do it this way...if the g win Saturday, how do you feel about our season? Is Kramers job on the line next year? If he were coaching at somewhere like Michigan or USC and was coming off a couple of 7-6 seasons, goes 6-5 this year by losing the last three including to cross-state rival, I guarantee you he'd be gone this year!
But...that's not us....yet, plus I'm extremely confident 1. we'll beat the g on Saturday, 2. We have a lot of talent coming back next year (almost every offensive lineman, almost every wide reciever, every running back, every quarterback, good mix of experienced D-linemen, pretty good corps of linebackers, still young but deep and experienced secondary, pretty good kicking game prospects).
I think we broke all attendence records this year. It's looking much better.

Good Luck Bobcats! Go to DennyLand and kick some tail!!

raincat · Post by **raincat** » Thu Nov 18, 2004 6:32 pm

Let's do it this way...if the g win Saturday, how do you feel about our season? Is Kramers job on the line next year? If he were coaching at somewhere like Michigan or USC and was coming off a couple of 7-6 seasons, goes 6-5 this year by losing the last three including to cross-state rival, I guarantee you he'd be gone this year!
But...that's not us....yet, plus I'm extremely confident 1. we'll beat the g on Saturday, 2. We have a lot of talent coming back next year (almost every offensive lineman, almost every wide reciever, every running back, every quarterback, good mix of experienced D-linemen, pretty good corps of linebackers, still young but deep and experienced secondary, pretty good kicking game prospects).
I think we broke all attendence records this year. It's looking much better.

Good Luck Bobcats! Go to DennyLand and kick some tail!!

badasscat · Post by **badasscat** » Thu Nov 18, 2004 10:51 pm

BAC wrote,

To some people, if you say that any season that doesn't end with a national championship was a success, they will claim that you have a loser attitude.

Is that still bugging you? I just want to say that I don't think anything short of a NC is a failed season. However when we beat the jizz it will not make the season a success. The Cats goals are to make it to the playoffs, which we did not do. Beating the jizz will just add a little sparkle to a mediocore season.

BozoneCat · Post by **BozoneCat** » Thu Nov 18, 2004 11:26 pm

Badass~

I see what you are saying, maybe I just look at things a little differently. I still remember where we were only 4 short years ago, so right now, I try to measure "success" on whether I think the football program as a whole has made progress that year. You don't build Rome overnight. I agree that we did not meet our goals for the year, and in that sense the season was not a success. I try to look at the whole picture. Our offense made huge, huge strides this year - finally! Our defense regressed a bit, but I attribute that mostly to the loss of some of the best defensive players Montana State has ever seen combined with the loss of our entire retooled starting cornerbacks. We set records for attendence this season - that is a huge thing! Excitement and energy for Bobcat Football is at an all-time high, and we have still yet to accomplish more than a first-round playoff performance... imagine what will happen when we start to regularly win playoff games. A very intelligent and reasoned griz poster over at grizzlyboards.com said a while back that Bozeman is starting to remind him of the energy that existed fifteen or so years ago in Missoula when the griz were starting to become a dominant team - I think that is a great compliment, because not too long ago, the city of Bozeman was for the most part complacent when it came to Bobcat Football. Donations are at an all-time high, tickets are beginning to be in demand, the tailgates have improved by about 1000% - simply put, Bobcat Football is a fun and exciting experience! I think that is great progress. We lose some really great players, as is the cycle in college athletics, but we also return a hell of a lot of great talent that will undoubtedly be very hungry next year, and hopefully will play with a purpose and a chip on their shoulders. This season will be a success not because we beat the grizzlies, but all these other factors point to great strides being made in the program as a whole. I don't measure success by beating the grizzlies - I expect it. This season wasn't a complete success, but it will be a success, and beating the grizzlies will just be icing on the day-old cake - and we will be left with a positive flow into the beginning of next year!

Bcat · Post by **Bcat** » Fri Nov 19, 2004 12:25 am

Concur Bozone. An aspect of success I noticed this year is that local TV news coverage and newspaper coverage seemed to be about equal in most cities between the Cat and the jizzer programs. Another aspect I measure is jizzer attention time, it appears we are getting more mental attention from jizzer fans(although mentally challenged). In years past it seemed only the Cat/jizz game was when the hippies gave us any of those limited brain cells. While the W/L record was not a success, there were some off the field successess. Hopefully the W/L record this year will not diminish those off field successess. This may be the best reason for a W this weekend, not to salvage the season, but to keep the moment, and attention drawn to the Cat program.

Bleedinbluengold · Post by **Bleedinbluengold** » Fri Nov 19, 2004 8:59 am

Bozone - well put...

And let's not forget another exciting improvement this year...No coaches implicated in a crime, no coaches accused of a crime, and no coaches arrested for a crime. Next year, we're going for, "no former coaches guilty of a crime and sent to prison."

El_Gato · Post by **El_Gato** » Fri Nov 19, 2004 9:07 am

Yes, that was a big "off-the-field" accomplishment...

Now if the griz can only get their team to stop beating their girlfriends, er, "partners"....

Cat-theotherwhitemeat · Post by **Cat-theotherwhitemeat** » Fri Nov 19, 2004 9:23 am

Any Griz fan should be able to see that the Cats program is doing very well and getting even better. It's admitting it that some have a problem with. As if giving MSU props would make them a bad Griz fan. I'm a huge Griz fan, have been since my sister played ball for them in the early 80's. But I also cheer the Bobcats when not playing the Griz. In some people's eyes this is wrong and they can't understand it. I could care less. I hope the Bobcat program catches up with the Griz in all aspects exept the last conference game of every season. And judging by the strides made in the last few years, it's going to happen. And to be honest, if it didn't happen the rivalry would suffer. I loved that 16 game winning streak but it wasn't doing much for the rivalry. Whether Griz fans like to admit it or not, the Cats are on the rise.

Good luck tomorrow (but not too much).

El_Gato · Post by **El_Gato** » Fri Nov 19, 2004 9:28 am

Meat,

You must have gotten a good night's sleep.

I have stated it time & again: I like Kramer's attitude and stance regarding the griz: They have what we want. Them (the griz) losing their status or their tradition is NOT NEARLY as important as us (the Cats) achieving similar goals. My dream is to win the BSC championship by defeating them on the final Saturday of the season and then beating them again 3 weeks later in the semifinals on the way to the National Championship, EVERY YEAR!!! This would be a success for the griz, as well, because making the playoffs seems to be what most of them are bragging about these days...

I will admit my 'hatred' is more aimed at the obnoxious, arrogant, and childish griz fans more than it is at their football team...

BWahlberg · Post by **BWahlberg** » Fri Nov 19, 2004 10:05 am

Hey El Gato,

Shut up, you guys at State SUCK! We're the greatest fans alive, see ya bobkitties!!

(Dripping with Sarcasm)

Being a life long Griz fan, many obnoxious Griz fans piss me off too. Being a successful football program for many years straight, you tend to get some bandwagon fans. Sorry you feel this way about some of our fans (or most of them). We've got some good people, you just need to look in the right places.

Good luck to both teams tomorrow, but better luck to the Griz!

WYCAT · Post by **WYCAT** » Fri Nov 19, 2004 10:14 am

Being a successful football program for many years straight, you tend to get some bandwagon fans. Sorry you feel this way about some of our fans (or most of them). We've got some good people, you just need to look in the right places.

Well said Re/Max. I wouldn't be able to venture a guess at the percentage of griz fans we could label bandwagoners but I would bet it is pretty high. If the went 0-11 or 5-6 for 3 straight years I would bet they would be jumping ship like they did off the Titanic. As far as finding some good people on you side, I will keep looking

(more of the sarcasm)

BelgradeBobcat · Post by **BelgradeBobcat** » Fri Nov 19, 2004 11:18 am

http://deseretnews.com/dn/view/0,1249,595106177,00.html

I think the above link can be instructive to both Bobcat and griz fans.

CARDIAC_CATS · Post by **CARDIAC_CATS** » Fri Nov 19, 2004 11:34 am

Real fans "know it would be foolish to pray to God to help their team win," Pedersen says. "They can see past the winning and losing." Well-adjusted fans, he says, don't get depressed if their team loses.

This one says it all as I'm sure there will be 1000's of Griz fans praying to God tomorrow that they win

BWahlberg · Post by **BWahlberg** » Fri Nov 19, 2004 12:50 pm

You guys probably see this on egriz, bandwagon fans fall off as soon as we loose one game. Esp after the PSU game we had handfuls of people jumping ship. Its one of the things you get to deal with when you have a program that people can easily latch onto with their winning record. Those fans are the most annoying. And they're usually incredibly rude to other teams and other teams fans (at least thats what I see)

El_Gato · Post by **El_Gato** » Fri Nov 19, 2004 1:20 pm

Ree,

The problem is, I'm NOT LOOKING for griz fans. It just seems that the "average" one I encounter is a bit too arrogant to ignore.

I KNOW there are way more "good" griz fans than bad; they just get obscured by idiots like dUMbass2002.

The ones I can least tolerate are those who never even attended UM; every time I see someone wearing the griz colors I ask them when they attended. I would estimate over the last 5 years that I've been doing this roughly 25% of the people I've polled (there's that damn El Gato and his stupid polls again!) never attended UM and around half of them never got a degree from there...

If that's not a bandwagon fan, I'm not sure there is such a thing...

If you're a griz alum, I've always said, be PROUD of your football program and send Don Read as much $$$ as you can afford because HE has given you and your entire university the only identity it has...