5 year evaluation

CARDIAC_CATS · Post by **CARDIAC_CATS** » Mon Nov 22, 2004 3:39 pm

jagur1 wrote:Except for some reason this years team had no Gas in the tank. They felt flat Saturday. I don't understand why?

Good Question, I thought they looked flat too. EW game popped their bubble maybe. In the end, I think teams finally found a way to gameplan against us and our weaker secondary/corners. When you have corners playing 10 yards off the line of scrimmage pretty much the 75% of the game, then the off tackle runs ... quick passes out in 'trips', qb scrambles ... your pretty much going to let them do that to you. I think they tried to play zone late in the year and then it wasn't working out so they switched back to man where they struggled with the 2 Freshman. I mean how many runs off tackles/passes did they have in that game? No corners up there at all . .just open field. Griz were in 3rd and short all day. Your going to win if that happens.

Helcat72 · Post by **Helcat72** » Mon Nov 22, 2004 6:22 pm

Eastcoastgriz wrote:
Helcat72 wrote:I still say that the reason we can't recruit the depth that the friz have is because of money. There is no other difference between the two schools. There is also no other reason for Kramer not to handout partials to every highschool star who shows interest.

I can see why he doesn't make this public...he doesn't want to sound like a whiner, he doesn't want his players feel like they are playing with a big handicap, so he makes getting a scholarship an earned bonus rather than an entitlement for a great highschool career.
Are you stating the Griz give out more scholarships than the cats?? I was under the impression that the GRIZ and cats both fund the max. amount of scholarships. Only difference was GRIZ used partial's and cats didn't

I that the friz do fund more scholarships than the Cats! My reasoning is that if we don't give partials, and we are thinner than the friz we either must give more full scholarships, or we don't use all the available scholarships. My resoning tells me it's the latter.

Eastcoastgriz · Post by **Eastcoastgriz** » Mon Nov 22, 2004 6:38 pm

Helcat72 wrote:
Eastcoastgriz wrote:
Helcat72 wrote:I still say that the reason we can't recruit the depth that the friz have is because of money. There is no other difference between the two schools. There is also no other reason for Kramer not to handout partials to every highschool star who shows interest.

I can see why he doesn't make this public...he doesn't want to sound like a whiner, he doesn't want his players feel like they are playing with a big handicap, so he makes getting a scholarship an earned bonus rather than an entitlement for a great highschool career.
Are you stating the Griz give out more scholarships than the cats?? I was under the impression that the GRIZ and cats both fund the max. amount of scholarships. Only difference was GRIZ used partial's and cats didn't
I that the friz do fund more scholarships than the Cats! My reasoning is that if we don't give partials, and we are thinner than the friz we either must give more full scholarships, or we don't use all the available scholarships. My resoning tells me it's the latter.

That’s very interesting. It surprises me that the cats are not funding all scholarships. Does anyone know how many scholarships are funded??

If you guys are funding fewer scholarships, it definitely puts you at a disadvantage.

Post by **kmax** » Mon Nov 22, 2004 6:59 pm

I am pretty sure that we are funding close to all of the scholarships, with the exception of one or two that get pulled right before/during season due to grades or other issues. Some of the articles that have been coming out concerning possible Big Sky expansion have mentioned one of the barriers for some schools is the Sky requires all members to have something like 60 scholarship athletes for football. If that is true, then I think it is highly unlikely that the Cats or Griz are funding very different #'s of "full" scholarships(full rides plus all parts of partials).

BozoneCat · Post by **BozoneCat** » Mon Nov 22, 2004 7:08 pm

jagur1 wrote:Except for some reason this years team had no Gas in the tank. They felt flat Saturday. I don't understand why?

Obviously, I felt the same way. Made me think of how the Cats and griz both played in the playoffs last year - they were so spent from the previous week's game, they didn't have the gas to finish the next week as the Cats fell flat in the 4th quarter and the griz couldn't get a stop in the 4th to save their lives. Last week's game against Eastern was, for all intents and purposes, a playoff game that had to have drained every last drop out of them. Had they won, they might have been able to proceed just on momentum and energy alone, but they obviously lost the edge when they lost that game.

Eastcoastgriz · Post by **Eastcoastgriz** » Mon Nov 22, 2004 7:27 pm

Helcat72 wrote:
Eastcoastgriz wrote:
Helcat72 wrote:I still say that the reason we can't recruit the depth that the friz have is because of money. There is no other difference between the two schools. There is also no other reason for Kramer not to handout partials to every highschool star who shows interest.

I can see why he doesn't make this public...he doesn't want to sound like a whiner, he doesn't want his players feel like they are playing with a big handicap, so he makes getting a scholarship an earned bonus rather than an entitlement for a great highschool career.
Are you stating the Griz give out more scholarships than the cats?? I was under the impression that the GRIZ and cats both fund the max. amount of scholarships. Only difference was GRIZ used partial's and cats didn't
I that the friz do fund more scholarships than the Cats! My reasoning is that if we don't give partials, and we are thinner than the friz we either must give more full scholarships, or we don't use all the available scholarships. My resoning tells me it's the latter.

So if the cats and the Griz are funding the same number of scholarships, what is this extra money that we have to spend???? I believe xmax is correct, with the exception of any fall out, cats and GRIZ fund 100% of available scholarships.

wbtfg · Post by **wbtfg** » Mon Nov 22, 2004 7:40 pm

So if the cats and the Griz are funding the same number of scholarships, what is this extra money that we have to spend???? I believe xmax is correct, with the exception of any fall out, cats and GRIZ fund 100% of available scholarships.

I think what he was trying to say is that the griz give some partials and the cats don't. So the cats will have roughly 60 players on full scholarships, where the griz may have 50 players on fully schollies and 20 players on partials. So therefore the griz would have more scholarship players. I assume that both teams have and use roughly the same amount of money to fund scholarships, but Hauk and Kramer just choose to use the money differently.

Eastcoastgriz · Post by **Eastcoastgriz** » Mon Nov 22, 2004 7:43 pm

wbtfg wrote:
So if the cats and the Griz are funding the same number of scholarships, what is this extra money that we have to spend???? I believe xmax is correct, with the exception of any fall out, cats and GRIZ fund 100% of available scholarships.
I think what he was trying to say is that the griz give some partials and the cats don't. So the cats will have roughly 60 players on full scholarships, where the griz may have 50 players on fully schollies and 20 players on partials. So therefore the griz would have more scholarship players. I assume that both teams have and use roughly the same amount of money to fund scholarships, but Hauk and Kramer just choose to use the money differently.

Thanks, I wasnt sure what he/she was trying to get at.

wbtfg · Post by **wbtfg** » Tue Nov 23, 2004 9:58 am

which players would those be?

Bleedinbluengold · Post by **Bleedinbluengold** » Fri Nov 26, 2004 6:03 pm

El G is right on the money.

The other thing I would say that if it wasn't for the depth at certain positions this year, this team would maybe have won 2 games. Don't mistake inexperience with lack of talent. The guys that got reps this year are well on their way to becoming All Conference. Anyone remember how bad Jay Hackett and Kane Ione would get beat as a freshman? Brutal! Our young corners will be just fine, and they will challenge for playing time next season, IMHO. The same can be said about our OL and RBs.

I have all the respect in the world for Hys. He brought the program back from the grave. Krames has actually taken it out of the graveyard.

By any measure, the program is better now under Krames....donations up, game attendance up, wins up, wins over griz up, conference championships up, playoff appearances up, revenues up.

BozoneCat · Post by **BozoneCat** » Fri Nov 26, 2004 9:53 pm

Just to clarify any misconceptions, Kramer does give partials - just not as freely as some other schools. I think that Mike's position is that it is kind of a slap in the face to a kid, telling him, "well, you're not good enough to warrant a full scholarhship, but I'll placate you and give you a little money..." I disagree, though. Giving a kid a shot and a partial is better than letting that kid go to Carroll or UM. On top of that, you have to figure you only have a 50% shot on any kid turning out good, by giving partials you just up your odds. Bottom line, Kramer does indeed give partials, just not near as many - and I personally feel he would be well-served to offer more.

BobcatDad · Post by **BobcatDad** » Sat Nov 27, 2004 9:45 am

I think offering a partial scholarship to a walk on as an incentive/reward is fine........But, if I was a kid who was interested in playing for MSU and Kramer offered me a partial scholarship while EWU or UM offered me a full ride...............My response to Kramer would be...........SEE YA!!!

Now on the other hand......if I had not been offered anywhere else, I would probably jump on the offer of getting part of my education payed for and being able to play ball at the next level.

It's a crap shoot every time a coach makes an offer to a prospect.

BozoneCat · Post by **BozoneCat** » Sun Nov 28, 2004 2:39 am

Name one, sh*t-for-brains.

Helcat72 · Post by **Helcat72** » Sun Nov 28, 2004 9:56 pm

Actually it happens a lot! I remember T. J. Olkers was affered a half scholarship to MSU and chose to walk on with the friz. I think Seamus Molloy was another one. This happened during cliff's tenure, but this might be another reason Kramer doesn't want to offer a lot of partials. He may figure that if you want to be Bobcat you can prove it for a year before we commit to you. If you don't...you can go ahead an be a friz!

I, as a coach, wouldn't want to keep offering a "marginal players", marginal player money and have them walk on somewhere else! I would instead tell them all if they want to play football, they have to prove it! Meanwhile the top players are offered scholarships up front. They know who they are... and the others do too!

BobcatLionFan · Post by **BobcatLionFan** » Mon Nov 29, 2004 12:54 pm

You just are not going to get any California kids with Partials, or the option of coming as a walk-on and then getting one later if you do well. They will say thanks, but no thanks.

11 of the 22 starters were California Kids. Also several others from Washiington and Oregon would not come for partials (i.e. Lulay, Cooper, Hirst, etc). (this is not counting these same location players that Red-Shirted or were hurt, i.e. Groves, Gathing, Lulay, ..........) you have a lot of full scholarships.

Given you have all these that need full scholarships to attact them to Montana, you have a choice that I believe the coaches made in saying OK, let's give them (including Montana kids) all Full Scholarships since they are all players that we want.

On the other hand, if you offer mostly partials, you end up with very few California/Oregon/Washington kids.

FootballFan · Post by **FootballFan** » Mon Nov 29, 2004 2:45 pm

S. Malloy wasn't offered anything by the Cats. He committed to the Griz early in the recruiting period (never officially visited MSU), and while Kramer was the head coach not Hysell.