Kramer leaving?

Post by **SonomaCat** » Thu Dec 16, 2004 5:42 pm

Bleedinbluengold wrote:
BCATbread wrote:Remember, the class of '03, largly responsable for both BSC championships and griz beatings were not recruited by Kramer but by Cliff and his staff. Im not going for a complete Kramer bashing here but so many in here constantly have there nose burried in his ass so far they fail to see that the program really hasn't accomplished jack. The overall losing record speaks for itself.
yaaa, the Cats haven't done jacksh!t under Kramer...Not 3 winning seasons in a row, not more fans in the stands, not more money into the ASA, not beating um, not winning the conference, and not going to the playoffs...pretty much a below-average accomplishment compared to the previous 15 years back to 1984.

Where're my tar and feathers!!!

This is hilarious.

Yeah... I'm sure our new poster has no hidden agenda or unspoken allegiances. In fact, he/she kind of reminds me of a similar poster from back in the ESPN days of a couple years ago.

badasscat · Post by **badasscat** » Thu Dec 16, 2004 5:59 pm

Buttealum wrote:Hysell sucked. The only reason he looked even half-assed good is because he wouldn't leave and stuck around enough to have a few wins. Toooooo long. Toooooo old. Toooooo much chew in his mouth whenever he was interviewed. :-&

You need to check your facts, and show the old guy some respect. I played under both Hys and Krams. If you know your history you would know that the Cats were on the rise at the end of the Hys era and played the jizz for the conf. title two of his last three yrs. The only reason the team started to decline can be directly attributed to Hys' poor health his final season. The guy could hardly stand for more than 30 seconds at a time, seeing that strong man in such a terrible conditon had adverse effects on the team. That and the fact that we went from having Rob Compson at the helm to having two unexperienced guys at QB. Hys was a great coach who had mediocore assistants and Krams is a good coach (who yes has great public speaking skills) with great assistants.

Helcat72 · Post by **Helcat72** » Thu Dec 16, 2004 6:55 pm

Hell's Bells wrote:lets give heysell his props - he built up the cats to the point where at least they won every other week - kramer kinda exploded that to 2 straight wins over the griz.

also - i expect him to leave - any good coach is crazy to stick around in the Big Sky (Pig sty??? lol) I say again - him and bobby hauck are going to be coaching in D1A schools in a couple of years - i just pray that kramer gives us a good trained replacement - the d - coordinator would be a good person.

Kwiatkowski is another Hysell type of coach...he's almost a genius with putting together a defense...but ask him to talk to a group of people?....Well..don't ask him!

Buttealum · Post by **Buttealum** » Thu Dec 16, 2004 9:25 pm

Lets see...how many years was Hysell coaching??? You must have been on drugs to think we did well. How many people actually went to see you and continued to support the athletic team financially? Did you? I am thrilled to see him gone, he was worthless.

Buttealum · Post by **Buttealum** » Thu Dec 16, 2004 9:37 pm

I am glad you thought Hysell was a great coach. Hope I didn't help pay for your tuition, because the team was awful. We lost to the Griz too many times because of extremely poor coaching. He was there too long, nobody cared about the team. Why would he allow an assistant (salo) to have his kid play, when he was terrible? Glad is is out, should have been gone six years before he was asked to quit.

mjc · Post by **mjc** » Thu Dec 16, 2004 11:26 pm

I would much rather have Coach Hysell then Kramer any day. With Cliff - a spade was a spade every day of the week. With my expericene with Kramer a spade was one day, a club the next, a heart the next, then a spade, then a diamond..... Get my drift. It would all depend on the day and what had happened in the minues/hours/ or days preceding.

I'll admit that Cliff was/is rough around the edges but ONE could always believe every word that came out of his mouth. Mike does travel around and talk, talk, talk and may people love it. Not everyone but many.

Steve Salo was not the "fastest" kid playing on the football field, BUT he knows/knew football and could really "see" the field. He was an asset to the stars as they relied on Steve to tell them what was coming and what they should do.

I'm tired of the Cliff and MIke comparisons. Mike was able to "coach" many, many players that Cliff and his coaches had recruited. But Mike was able to bring in some good players on his own. Jr. Adams & Aaron Hill (on the tail of Tyler Thomas), Brian Choi, Bo Espinoza, the nephews Wolfe, Beau Clark, David Smith, Jeff Bolton, and Nick Marudas just to name a few. Then the infamous MARCEL DUNN. Who really cares - it's water over the bridge. It's over and in the past. I just wanted to give one last post on this subject and then not again.

Hell's Bells · Post by **Hell's Bells** » Fri Dec 17, 2004 12:23 am

the real question is where was the msu football program before heysell, then after? the 1998 team was a damn fun team to watch - i remember compson rolling up 300 yards against portland state. heysel was not a good public speaker and did his fair share to advertise copenhagen, but not better then Chris Ledux/Toby Keith. Heysell did recruit a lot of quality kids, ryno, compson, hobbs, grey, turnquist...ect. Both coaches had their fair share of bad recruits...anyone watch frank green play?!?! And how about Azimi's quarterbacking skills? So good that he was a backup safety his senior year after a 0-11 year *me thinks this is the main reason the cats went 0-11* Irregardless of how kramer does or how many of us cats fans remember the heysel years longingly *i do - that 1998 team was fun to watch!* I do, however love the kramer years and I hope he picks wisley when a D1 A team wants him for his services in a couple of years - lets face it cats fans - kramer is eventually leaving

Hell's Bells · Post by **Hell's Bells** » Fri Dec 17, 2004 12:24 am

just dont shoot the messanger - i want him to stay as much if not more then any y'all

Bcat · Post by **Bcat** » Fri Dec 17, 2004 12:40 am

I hate to change the subject, but what do you think this season does for Hauck? Expedite his opportunities? Obviously the pressure is on for next year. Early in the coaches program, still ridding on the momentum and recruits from previous staff. Just a thought for discussion since we all agree K has been good, and most likely will be leaving in 2-5.

mslacat · Post by **mslacat** » Fri Dec 17, 2004 9:28 am

Could we kill this thread it seems to keeping alive the rumor that Kramer is looking to move on, which is not helpful during recruiting season! How about starting a new Thread to carry on this conversation like...

The Bobcat golden years: The Hysell / Solmonson era

El_Gato · Post by **El_Gato** » Fri Dec 17, 2004 2:12 pm

My biggest beef is how little mileage we got out of the 1984 championship. The Grizzlies parlayed the 95 title into continued, CONSTANT success as well as 2 more NC's; we win one and immediately go in the crapper for 15 years...

You have to fault the coaches and the administration 99% for the fact that we got NOTHING out of a National Championship. The coaches should have had a recruiting "feeding frenzy" following 84 and the AD should have been able to raise money with his eyes closed! Neither of those things happened we ended up with the Solomonson/Hysell era; aka the Dark Ages...

mjc wrote:I'll admit that Cliff was/is rough around the edges but ONE could always believe every word that came out of his mouth.

And ONE is generally the number of words that came out of Cliff's mouth when he was asked a question...

El_Gato · Post by **El_Gato** » Fri Dec 17, 2004 2:20 pm

Also wanted to comment on Hauck. Obviously, his stock goes up when they win tonight...

BUT, if you're a D1 AD, here's what you see on his resume:

Career special teams coordinator; at high profile schools, yes, but a relatively minor job.

2 years, Head Coach at UM; 1 National Championship, 1 first round playoff loss AT WaGriz, SHARED 7 game conference title BOTH years...

If I have any candidates that have been O or D Coordinators at a D1 school(s) for any length of time & are well-regarded there, those guys will get the nod over Hauck.

If he goes deep into the playoffs the next 2 years? THEN maybe a second-tier D1 school will offer him 200-300k for a few years to see how he does.

Bottom line: The one thing BH CAN'T say at this point is that he can rebuild a team; he simply hasn't had to. Most likely, any D1 school interested will be in the rebuilding mode, so they'd be taking a chance hiring Hauck. Just look at Dennehy; didn't rebuild UM, COULDN'T rebuild USU...

Bottom line #2: Right now, he has similar credentials to what Earl Solomonson did when we hired him in 86, only at the 1AA level rather than DII; and we all know how Earl turned out...

jagur1 · Post by **jagur1** » Fri Dec 17, 2004 2:36 pm

A rich guy in Colorado?

El_Gato · Post by **El_Gato** » Fri Dec 17, 2004 3:24 pm

Good for him! I'm just sorry that he had to flush our program down the toilet before he found his TRUE calling. Too bad for us he didn't start sooner...

BTW (and yes, I've posted this before), I heard that Earl is rich because football fans all over the country started an endowment for him; he's received millions under 1 stipulation: THAT HE NEVER COACH A FOOTBALL TEAM AT ANY LEVEL EVER AGAIN!!!

BozoneCat · Post by **BozoneCat** » Sat Dec 18, 2004 1:25 pm

Maybe he should throw some of that money our way as reparations for what he did to our program...

gtapp · Post by **gtapp** » Sat Dec 18, 2004 6:42 pm

How about the coach at Carrol College? I could see him walking the MSU sideline once Kramer leaves.

Post by **rtb** » Sat Dec 18, 2004 8:25 pm

gtapp wrote:How about the coach at Carrol College? I could see him walking the MSU sideline once Kramer leaves.

I would love it but one of two things will happen. He will have moved on before Kramer leaves or he won't move on at all. I have been told he doesn't want to leave Helena, but money can motivate like nothing else so we will see. If he is willing to leave Helena it wouldn't surprise me if he leaves this year or next, which doesn't give MSU time. I would love to see what he could do at MSU, but I don't think it will happen.

Helcat72 · Post by **Helcat72** » Sun Dec 19, 2004 8:14 pm

Mike took the Carroll job partly because his parents lived in East Helena and he wanted to be close to them. His mom died a while ago, but his dad still lives there and he and Heidi take care of him. Mike would probabaly move on if his dad passed away...but would probably look more toward Missoula rather than Bozeman since he coached there once and has a lot of contacts there.

I did hear that he may have been a little annoyed that they wouldn't wait for him to finish the year at Carroll the year that they hired Hauck...but my information may be erroneous too!

Since it looks like Kramer will be in Bozeman for a few more years and Hauck may be the first to leave...I think the friz job may be the one he takes, but beyond that I wouldn't doubt that he may also succeed Joe Glenn at Wyoming because that's where his coaching roots are. This of course would only be if he no longer had ties in Helena.