Durham / MSU : post how/where you stand!

AZCAT21 · Post by **AZCAT21** » Thu Jan 13, 2005 1:06 pm

I'm sorry but the reasons you guys give for some of the players are totally false. I know that Damir didn't leave because he wanted to turn pro. I had classes with him and he told me that it had to do with him not winning the conference MVP. he felt that he was cheated by Durham. Supposedly at the conference meeting the coaches put it on Durham to pick the MVP because the team was so balanced, being a former point guard he chose Jason. Obviously Damir wanted to play pro ball in Europe but you can't believe the difference in money he would have received right away had he won that award. He was upset because he led the team in points and rebounds and didn't win the award.

Post by **kmax** » Thu Jan 13, 2005 1:17 pm

AZCAT21 wrote:I'm sorry but the reasons you guys give for some of the players are totally false. I know that Damir didn't leave because he wanted to turn pro. I had classes with him and he told me that it had to do with him not winning the conference MVP. he felt that he was cheated by Durham. Supposedly at the conference meeting the coaches put it on Durham to pick the MVP because the team was so balanced, being a former point guard he chose Jason. Obviously Damir wanted to play pro ball in Europe but you can't believe the difference in money he would have received right away had he won that award. He was upset because he led the team in points and rebounds and didn't win the award.

I don't know about this. I can believe you that Damir may have left after feeling he should have won the MVP, but I don't believe the story about Durham. I could be totally wrong, it has happened once or twice before, but it is my understanding that a coach cannot vote for a player on his own team for MVP.

Post by **rtb** » Thu Jan 13, 2005 1:20 pm

AZCAT21 wrote:I'm sorry but the reasons you guys give for some of the players are totally false. I know that Damir didn't leave because he wanted to turn pro. I had classes with him and he told me that it had to do with him not winning the conference MVP. he felt that he was cheated by Durham. Supposedly at the conference meeting the coaches put it on Durham to pick the MVP because the team was so balanced, being a former point guard he chose Jason. Obviously Damir wanted to play pro ball in Europe but you can't believe the difference in money he would have received right away had he won that award. He was upset because he led the team in points and rebounds and didn't win the award.

I also had class with a few players and one of them talked to me at lengths about why Damir left....I was told his parents and grandparents were living together in a one-bedroom house because the family had no money. When Damir had a great year he was offered a great deal to go back to Europe and play. He wanted to finish out with the Cats but couldn't leave his family with no money when he had such a great opportunity. This may not be true, but I was told this story by a reliable source.

Helcat72 · Post by **Helcat72** » Thu Jan 13, 2005 1:39 pm

This latter story sounds more logical. Even if Damir was the leading scorer and rebounder, Jason still had a pretty fantastic year and had to share the MVP title anyhow. Damir was the newcomer of the year by himself!

AZCAT21 · Post by **AZCAT21** » Thu Jan 13, 2005 5:29 pm

No offense to Jason but what did he do to deserve that MVP over Damir? I don't know what statistics you usually use to determine the "Most Valuable Player" on any team but its been a long time since I have ever heard of someone winning that award and not lead their team in any individual category. And sorry but Damir would have come back, its true his family is/was poor but he would have come back had he won the award. The other thing is most families in Eastern Europe have thier entire family living under one roof, that is not unusual. I also don't know what you are talking about when you say that Jason shared the title with Damir, Jason won it by himself. Damir also got paid about 20k when he went over to Slovenia and played, think he would have gotten more had he won the award.
I am definitely not trying to take anything away from Jason with these posts, I think that he is an outstanding basketball player and a real genuine person, my feelings though are that there was some big time politics as to Jason winning and not Damir.

Post by **SonomaCat** » Thu Jan 13, 2005 5:41 pm

AZCAT21 wrote:No offense to Jason but what did he do to deserve that MVP over Damir? I don't know what statistics you usually use to determine the "Most Valuable Player" on any team but its been a long time since I have ever heard of someone winning that award and not lead their team in any individual category. And sorry but Damir would have come back, its true his family is/was poor but he would have come back had he won the award. The other thing is most families in Eastern Europe have thier entire family living under one roof, that is not unusual. I also don't know what you are talking about when you say that Jason shared the title with Damir, Jason won it by himself. Damir also got paid about 20k when he went over to Slovenia and played, think he would have gotten more had he won the award.
I am definitely not trying to take anything away from Jason with these posts, I think that he is an outstanding basketball player and a real genuine person, my feelings though are that there was some big time politics as to Jason winning and not Damir.

I am now kind of confused by the whole discussion. So he left because he didn't get the MVP award, which was apparently important because it would have gotten him more money... when he left? There's a bit of circular logic here.

I had always assumed that he had made a decent amount when he left to go pro. Did you leave off a zero, or did he really quit college to make little more than minimum wage?

It seems to me that if he did leave because he was snubbed on the MVP, that's not really a sign of a great "team" kind of guy. Of course, the only motivation I have heard for him wanting the award so bad in the first place was that it would improve his basketball resume for his jump to the pros, which suggests that he was going to leave either way.

AZCAT21 · Post by **AZCAT21** » Thu Jan 13, 2005 6:07 pm

Bay, you are right he did leave for a little more than minimum wage. He told me that the fact of the matter is if you don't have the "MVP" awards on your basketball resume you aren't going to get the big bucks until you go and prove yourself. So yeah he started at 20k his first year. The thing is I'm 80% sure he would not have left if he had won the award. Trust me I'm sure the coaches would have been able to talk him into staying had he got the award.

Post by **rtb** » Thu Jan 13, 2005 6:23 pm

I was told 75k, but who knows the truth is probably somewhere between what we have all heard.

AZCAT21 · Post by **AZCAT21** » Thu Jan 13, 2005 6:31 pm

75k in slovenia, no. Quadre was making triple digits in Germany and Spain. Those are big markets, Slovenia is not. Who told you 75k?

Post by **SonomaCat** » Thu Jan 13, 2005 6:40 pm

AZCAT21 wrote:Bay, you are right he did leave for a little more than minimum wage. He told me that the fact of the matter is if you don't have the "MVP" awards on your basketball resume you aren't going to get the big bucks until you go and prove yourself. So yeah he started at 20k his first year. The thing is I'm 80% sure he would not have left if he had won the award. Trust me I'm sure the coaches would have been able to talk him into staying had he got the award.

Ugh. I guess I had always assumed that the pay day was a bit more lucrative than that, even if a country like that. If taking care of his family financially was the aim, it sounds like he would have been MUCH better off staying here, getting a degree, and getting a job with better long term potential. That's too bad.

AZCAT21 · Post by **AZCAT21** » Thu Jan 13, 2005 6:44 pm

The thing is that in those poor countries 20k American does go a long way. And he didn't have any expenses (food, car, apartment). I'm sure by now he is making good money and enjoying what he is doing. But you are right a degree would have been something very very beneficial for him. Once again though he had to start off small and try to move up to a country where basketball is bigger.

farmcats · Post by **farmcats** » Thu Jan 13, 2005 6:47 pm

I heard from a very reliable source Damir wished he hadn’t turned pro. Once he made the decision there was no trying back

Helcat72 · Post by **Helcat72** » Thu Jan 13, 2005 6:55 pm

AZCAT21 wrote:No offense to Jason but what did he do to deserve that MVP over Damir? I don't know what statistics you usually use to determine the "Most Valuable Player" on any team but its been a long time since I have ever heard of someone winning that award and not lead their team in any individual category. And sorry but Damir would have come back, its true his family is/was poor but he would have come back had he won the award. The other thing is most families in Eastern Europe have thier entire family living under one roof, that is not unusual. I also don't know what you are talking about when you say that Jason shared the title with Damir, Jason won it by himself. Damir also got paid about 20k when he went over to Slovenia and played, think he would have gotten more had he won the award.
I am definitely not trying to take anything away from Jason with these posts, I think that he is an outstanding basketball player and a real genuine person, my feelings though are that there was some big time politics as to Jason winning and not Damir.

I believe he shared the award with a Weber Player. He also was named All american Honorable Mention or 2nd team. the conference probably figured they couldn't have the only all american in the league not the MVP.

Post by **SonomaCat** » Thu Jan 13, 2005 7:04 pm

Google rocks. There is a Quadre reference in the second article and a Damir mention in the article titled "A2: Day 11...."

That's current as of this week. It appears that you can sign up to drill down into their player profiles, etc., which I haven't done yet. You have to pay to use it.

http://www.eurobasket.com/gre/gre.asp?NewsNo=13

Post by **rtb** » Fri Jan 14, 2005 9:31 am

I heard an interesting discussion on ESPN radio the other day about why Manning should not have be the NFL's Most Valuable Player. The show's host made a great point.....The Most Valuable Player is not always the best player. He is the player that the team could not function without. When you think about that team Jason was by far the most valuable player. I remember he hardly sat during any games that year or any year he was at MSU. He was the leader and remained on the floor at all times to keep the team going. When MSU needed a big shot who did they look to? Jason. So I think that even though Damir was the leading scorer and rebounder he wasn't the Most Valuable Player in the Big Sky. He was one of the best for sure, just not the most valuable.

Ok, now that I got that off my chest I will get to updating the news section.

AZCAT21 · Post by **AZCAT21** » Fri Jan 14, 2005 10:59 am

Just curious-can you name 2 or more "MVP's" that haven't been the best player. Not sure I can agree with ESPN if they are saying that Payton didn't deserve the award, he did have the most prolific season of any quarterback in the history of the NFL. I think sometimes broadcasters talk just to talk.

Post by **rtb** » Fri Jan 14, 2005 11:25 am

The best example they gave on ESPN Radio was the year UNLV was so great that Greg Anthony was the MVP even though Larry Johnson and Stacey Augmon were better players with better stats etc.

The host was not saying that Peyton didn't have the best season but that when it comes to being the Most VALUABLE Player to the team he wasn't the guy. I agree the most of the time the MVP turns out to be the guy with the best season statistically, which that is fine, but the award should be called Player of the Year then. If you use the terms Most Valuable Player then the award should be based on who is the most valuable to their team, not who puts up the biggest numbers. So using that logic I think it is fair Jason won. Just made sense to me, that's all.

jagur1 · Post by **jagur1** » Fri Jan 14, 2005 11:30 am

So who's more important to his team then Peyton? Anyteam? Did they mention anyone on ESPN RTB?

Post by **rtb** » Fri Jan 14, 2005 12:36 pm

jagur1 wrote:So who's more important to his team then Peyton? Anyteam? Did they mention anyone on ESPN RTB?

Yeah they gave Michael Vick as an example. Comparing the Falcons record last year when Vick was hurt to this year when Vick was healthy along with the fact that Atlanta didn't make many offseason changes to the team.

Sorry we have gotten so far off the topic of this thread, but this message board provides great discussion on many topics!

Post by **kmax** » Fri Jan 14, 2005 12:37 pm

Or for an even better example with a pretty good direct comparison to the Damir/Jason is look at Steve Nash of the Phoenix Suns this year. There is early season talk that he could be the league MVP(no not a consensus by any means) but he by no means has the best stats. If only looking at stats, Amare Stoudemire would take it easily, but he is not really even being talked about for League MVP honors. As rtb says it is called Most Valuable Player, not Player of the Year or Offensive Player of the Year.