The bobcat double platinum years - the heysell years *grin*

Hell's Bells · Post by **Hell's Bells** » Tue Dec 21, 2004 7:12 pm

ok now Cliff Heysell did do some good while coach - i am interested in any opinions about him

Cat Pride · Post by **Cat Pride** » Wed Dec 22, 2004 8:28 am

By the way, it HYSELL.

Robcat · Post by **Robcat** » Wed Dec 22, 2004 10:09 am

I knew Hysell from his collega days, and I was not impressed. When MSU was looking for a new coach I kmew one of the members on the selection comittee, Everday when I would see him I would give him my 2 cents worth on why Hysell should not be selected. I lost not only the battle but the war. The rest is history.

mchammer · Post by **mchammer** » Wed Dec 22, 2004 11:15 am

I think that we should give Cliff and his staff some credit. They inherited a real challenge following The Solomonson staff. He left things a lot better than he found them.

Mike Carignan

mslacat · Post by **mslacat** » Wed Dec 22, 2004 11:28 am

Better I agree. Define "a lot"

jagur1 · Post by **jagur1** » Wed Dec 22, 2004 11:32 am

a: One or single

lot: ration, portion, share, slice, Proportion, percentage, allocation, allotment.

I have a lot in Gregory Hills. I'm going to buld a house on that lot.

velochat · Post by **velochat** » Wed Dec 22, 2004 11:47 am

I guess you have to look at the expression, rather than just the word.

definition number 8:

"a great number or amount; as we saw a lot of ducks.[Colloq.]"

from Webster's unabridged.

Why would we want to kick old Cliff around again now?

Cat Pride · Post by **Cat Pride** » Wed Dec 22, 2004 11:50 am

velochat wrote:Why would we want to kick old Cliff around again now?

Exactly!

mslacat · Post by **mslacat** » Wed Dec 22, 2004 11:50 am

jagur1 wrote:a: One or single

lot: ration, portion, share, slice, Proportion, percentage, allocation, allotment.

I have a lot in Gregory Hills. I'm going to buld a house on that lot.

Great let me know if you want me to take a look at the lot for you before you build. Generally you can save yourself a lot of heartache and money by doing so. I do not charge for a site visit. A lot of people make their first and most expensive mistake in building in the planning (or lack there of) stages of building! Fourtunately and unfortunately most people never know how much money they burned up through poor planning, and it is a lot!

raincat · Post by **raincat** » Wed Dec 22, 2004 12:38 pm

Somehow Cliff still holds a certain facination with loyal Bobcats. I've know him for years and years. Basically he's a good guy. Not everyone's cup of tea, but he'd be okay with that statement. I believe he did leave it better than he found it, and he'd be happy with that statement, too. He left on his own with friendly and understand "urging". So it's not like he's gone because Kramer forced him out. Maybe the Banzi tactics Kramer used on returning players when he first arrived made it seem he lacked respect for the work Cliff left behind. But that last team was 3-8 and clearly there was work to do. I settled my Cliff vs. Kramer thing long ago. Mike's EWU met Cliffs MSU 6 times between 1994 and 1999. EWU was 5-1. Interestingly, Mike's best group.... his 1997 team, the one that went deep into the playoffs and finished 12-2 came to Bozeman and got their a$$es handed to them by the Cats, 17-7. Both coaches have good graduation rates, both work(ed) their tails off for the Cats, both are proud to be Bobcats. I'm good with that. I don't wear rose colored glasses. I'm waiting for Kramer to deliver. If not in 2005 then I think he's headed for trouble himself.

wbtfg · Post by **wbtfg** » Wed Dec 22, 2004 12:43 pm

I'm waiting for Kramer to deliver. If not in 2005 then I think he's headed for trouble himself.

What do you mean by "deliver"? In my opinion Kramer has already delivered, and I look for him to continue to do so.

Cat Pride · Post by **Cat Pride** » Wed Dec 22, 2004 12:54 pm

To me, deliver means better record than 6-5. It means hosting playoff game(s), which means advancement in the playoffs.

That is deliver to me.

velochat · Post by **velochat** » Wed Dec 22, 2004 2:25 pm

Let's not forget Cliff's health. He might not have made it through another year. I don't know him, but I see him around town; he's a lot thinner and works out, but he's not very mobile and the years have taken their toll. There weren't a lot of hot coaches who wanted the job when Cliff was hired, but he wanted it out of intense loyalty. The facilities were sadly out of date and tradition was lost. He helped turn the ship around, when football could even have been dropped at MSU; that's good enough for me.

mchammer · Post by **mchammer** » Wed Dec 22, 2004 2:34 pm

Define a lot? I can recall changes that were needed. One thing that I think changed significantly when Cliff arrived was the integrity of the athletes and staff. I was around them every day and I noticed much less profanity, talk about getting drunk, more self respect and respect for others. They weren't perfect of course, but there was clearly more discipline. So, win or lose, I cared more about them and their efforts. As if the job wasn't difficult enough, I also recall that Cliff was in pain in his later years. I don't know how he kept it together except through the strength of his will. I also know that the program was very important to him, he cared. So maybe the win-loss record wasn't the best, but his leadership was to be admired. He pulled us up to a level that would benefit his successor, Coach Kramer.

catatac · Post by **catatac** » Wed Dec 22, 2004 2:52 pm

Cat Pride wrote:To me, deliver means better record than 6-5. It means hosting playoff game(s), which means advancement in the playoffs.

That is deliver to me.

There are 119 1-AA teams out there who all want to host a 1st round home playoff game. Only 8 will succeed. So we're asking Kramer to be in the top 6.7 percentile for all of 1-AA. Pretty demanding. Don't get me wrong, I want the same exact thing out of the Bobcats but I also realize it's easy for us to get caught up in the trap of comparing ourselves to our brothers down the interstate. Think about how difficult that would be. 119 coaches are being asked by their fans to host a home playoff game. 111 won't get er done...

Sorry for rambling here, but obviously we all WANT this to happen, but is it fair for us to EXPECT if from Kramer?

Cat Pride · Post by **Cat Pride** » Wed Dec 22, 2004 3:24 pm

catatac wrote:There are 119 1-AA teams out there who all want to host a 1st round home playoff game. Only 8 will succeed. So we're asking Kramer to be in the top 6.7 percentile for all of 1-AA. Pretty demanding. Don't get me wrong, I want the same exact thing out of the Bobcats but I also realize it's easy for us to get caught up in the trap of comparing ourselves to our brothers down the interstate. Think about how difficult that would be. 119 coaches are being asked by their fans to host a home playoff game. 111 won't get er done...

Sorry for rambling here, but obviously we all WANT this to happen, but is it fair for us to EXPECT if from Kramer?

Honestly catatac....for 2005, yes, it is a reasonable request. With the talent and leadership coming back I fully expect to be hosting playoff game(s). And if for some reason the 2005 Cats fail to make the playoffs...I will be livid! Yes the players are the ones who perform and are responsible for their play, but the head coach is also needed to be held accountable.

So what I am saying is at this point in Kramer's tenure at Bozeman, a hosted playoff game is attainable and possibly expected, but to miss the playoffs with this returning team, that is inexcusable. IMHO.

Cat Pride · Post by **Cat Pride** » Wed Dec 22, 2004 3:31 pm

We've seen Kramer raise this program up, but now its time to take it to the next level. We've heard the hype, now its time to live up to it.

If Kramer cant take this team past 6-5, and also the same with kids the likes of Ioane, Montoya, RJ, Cooper, and now Lulay and all the studs on his back...then maybe Kramer will never elevate this team any higher than 6-5.

I might get in trouble for comparing, but you cant tell me there is that big of difference anymore between UM and MSU or EWU or NAU 2 years ago. Why can they host playoff games and be expected to advance through the playoffs and we cant hold our team to the same standards?

El_Gato · Post by **El_Gato** » Wed Dec 22, 2004 4:09 pm

Kramer's already accomplished more in 5 seasons than Cliff did in 8. In my book, the job is Kramers until he decides to move on...

catatac · Post by **catatac** » Wed Dec 22, 2004 4:53 pm

Pride - I’m with you and I fully expect the same results and I do have a feeling that 2005 WILL be the year it all comes together. I just sometimes question peoples’ attitudes, (Including my own!) towards their teams. For example, there are some Grizzly fans that literally expect them to win EVERY GAME and after every loss they’re calling for the coaches’ head. I’ve never met or heard of a Bobcat fan pulling that bs, but why do we realistically think the Bobcats should be better than 90+% of the other 1-AA teams out there? Do we possess some type of magical edge that should make us better than 110 or so other teams out there? Do we have the right to expect a home playoff game every year or are you mainly just saying, “We’ve paid our dues and it’s about our turn now…” I lean towards the latter philosophy. Sorry, I know I’m way overthinking all this fan expectations thing but if you think about it, everything being equal, fans really only have the right to EXPECT their team to win roughly half their games on a regular basis. That’s my opinion anyway…

raincat · Post by **raincat** » Wed Dec 22, 2004 5:11 pm

wbgft let's look at it this way...and I know this opens up a whole different discussion, but when the g* hired Glenn if he had promptly gone 6-5, 7-6, 6-5, etc., took them to two playoffs in five years and lost in the first round both times, beat the Bobcats twice in five years, tied for the conference championship twice in five years he would have been fired. Ask Ty Willingham. That's what happens to coaches at institutions who expect high end results. For our part, largely because of where we'd been for all those years that level of performance is judged as "having delivered". Well sorry, but suddenly that's not good enough for us either. And if you're being recruited by the Bobcats and happen to be reading this please take note. We expect to win here. If you don't want to help take us to the next level please go some place else.
Hi Curmba, was this thread supposed to be about Hysell?

The bobcat double platinum years - the heysell years grin

The bobcat double platinum years - the heysell years grin