MSU Football

inside guy · Post by **inside guy** » Tue Dec 28, 2004 8:00 pm

Whats going on with the football program? They just cut atleast 5 decent athletes. In my honest opinion, some of those guys should not have been cut, it's not there fault if they don't perform as well as Kramer would like them too. If you have to cut any scholarship player that has to say something about you not the player, It's just saying that your not that good at judging talent. I wont get into names but Kellen Allen, and Jimmy Beal should not have been sliced just to name a few...

BozoneCat · Post by **BozoneCat** » Tue Dec 28, 2004 8:24 pm

I don't know about Alley, but you have GOT to be kidding about Beal!!! Him leaving school was the best thing that will happen to the Bobcat Football program this off-season. Hell, I'd have been willing to buy the plane ticket.

Also, to clarify - these players weren't exactly "cut" per se, I think that the coaches basically tell the kids that they aren't cutting it and most likely won't see the playing field, and maybe they would want to think about going somewhere that they could play. From what I gather, Alley and Sherman in particular are both good kids and students, and the coaches have been working hard to find them a good school to transfer to, possibly Carroll or another Frontier school. Like it or not, college football is a business, and these things happen. If you were working on a year-to-year contract, you would probably do everything you could to better your chances of success. Face it, if Kramer has another bad year, especially next year, he will be fired. If these kids aren't going to earn playing time, I would just as soon see the scholarships go to some kids who have a chance to play.

94VegasCat · Post by **94VegasCat** » Wed Dec 29, 2004 1:09 pm

Alley, Sherman, Beal, and who else? Wasn't there an earlier thread about these guys? I would have helped BozoneCat with the plane ticket for Beal, but I always thought that Alley was an athlete! Must not have been able to please Kramers in some way I guess. Let's get some kids that can play, I am all for that.

wbtfg · Post by **wbtfg** » Wed Dec 29, 2004 1:14 pm

I think Mike Williams was in there.

Helcat72 · Post by **Helcat72** » Wed Dec 29, 2004 2:24 pm

In this pressure cooker of coaches jobs depending on won/loss records it has become a very cold hearted situation. Scholarships are a bonus for performing on the field rather than a right earned by graduating from high school and being named all state. It has come down to: "what have you done for me lately"

If Mike Kramer had a 5 year contract, a stadium that gets filled every game like UM, and a steady stream of 3 star recruits coming to him to make his "pick of the litter" every year...he could afford to be a nice guy every once in a while to a kid who "really tries"...however if he doesn't get a certain performance out of his players...he's the one who might be asked to "transfer".

This college coaching business is not for nice guys!

CARDIAC_CATS · Post by **CARDIAC_CATS** » Wed Dec 29, 2004 2:54 pm

inside guy wrote:Whats going on with the football program? They just cut atleast 5 decent athletes. In my honest opinion, some of those guys should not have been cut, it's not there fault if they don't perform as well as Kramer would like them too. If you have to cut any scholarship player that has to say something about you not the player, It's just saying that your not that good at judging talent. I wont get into names but Kellen Allen, and Jimmy Beal should not have been sliced just to name a few...

Kellen Alley I agree with, but Beal just flat out was not a very good player. Yeah, he was fast, but never caught onto the system/made dumb plays/penalties. Every college has some players that don't work out or are willing to transfer. At least Kramer is probably being fare and saying these guys won't see the field much this year with the new guys coming in and giving them a choice to transfer if they want to.

94VegasCat · Post by **94VegasCat** » Wed Dec 29, 2004 4:31 pm

Helcat72 wrote:In this pressure cooker of coaches jobs depending on won/loss records it has become a very cold hearted situation. Scholarships are a bonus for performing on the field rather than a right earned by graduating from high school and being named all state. It has come down to: "what have you done for me lately"

If Mike Kramer had a 5 year contract, a stadium that gets filled every game like UM, and a steady stream of 3 star recruits coming to him to make his "pick of the litter" every year...he could afford to be a nice guy every once in a while to a kid who "really tries"...however if he doesn't get a certain performance out of his players...he's the one who might be asked to "transfer".

This college coaching business is not for nice guys!

Oh, I agree wholeheartedly with you Helcat72. Just like anyone in the world of LIFE, we need to protect number 1. If people aren't performing for you and are being a detriment, you need to cut them loose or be cut loose yourself. I totatlly agree.

If MSU can get some better kids to come in and give us a leg up, then we should be all over it. Keep up the good work Coach Kramer!! (just get the damn griz)

catloya · Post by **catloya** » Mon Jan 03, 2005 5:26 pm

i dont know about you guys but this is college football.not high school.alley and beak been here for what three years....i think thats alot of time to show their "potential".why should we keep them and waste their time stayin here if they arent going to produce.soo there,stop your whining.its done their gone and its time to look ahead.my goodness its like they were role players.and dont want to here that they can provide depth or be a rising star...because where were they this year..huh?

94VegasCat · Post by **94VegasCat** » Tue Jan 04, 2005 1:57 am

catloya wrote:i dont know about you guys but this is college football.not high school.alley and beak been here for what three years....i think thats alot of time to show their "potential".why should we keep them and waste their time stayin here if they arent going to produce.soo there,stop your whining.its done their gone and its time to look ahead.my goodness its like they were role players.and dont want to here that they can provide depth or be a rising star...because where were they this year..huh?

I didn't realize that we were whining. I'll quit "whining" when you get a spelling lesson. Thanks for the tip on the difference between high school and college.

MSU88 · Post by **MSU88** » Tue Jan 04, 2005 9:20 am

inside guy wrote:Whats going on with the football program? They just cut atleast 5 decent athletes. In my honest opinion, some of those guys should not have been cut, it's not there fault if they don't perform as well as Kramer would like them too. If you have to cut any scholarship player that has to say something about you not the player, It's just saying that your not that good at judging talent. I wont get into names but Kellen Allen, and Jimmy Beal should not have been sliced just to name a few...

Their job is to perform up to the expectations of the head coach. That is why they are on scholarship! It is not an intramural program they are playing in.

CARDIAC_CATS · Post by **CARDIAC_CATS** » Tue Jan 04, 2005 10:26 am

MSU88 wrote:
inside guy wrote:Whats going on with the football program? They just cut atleast 5 decent athletes. In my honest opinion, some of those guys should not have been cut, it's not there fault if they don't perform as well as Kramer would like them too. If you have to cut any scholarship player that has to say something about you not the player, It's just saying that your not that good at judging talent. I wont get into names but Kellen Allen, and Jimmy Beal should not have been sliced just to name a few...
Their job is to perform up to the expectations of the head coach. That is why they are on scholarship! It is not an intramural program they are playing in.

There are NO FREE RIDES. You work hard/play smart and things will come. Kramer expects his players to excell in all areas ... academics/weight room/conditioning/preparation before you go on the field. If the player doesn't live up to those expectation (which by the way is all in their own power) then the coach has the right to replace them. Its not like he didn't give Beal a chance, he just never 'got it' on the field ... I've never seen so many stupid 'head' type mistakes in a game the past 2 years with Beal. You get 5-6 players doing those things and the team can go down like the Titanic in a hurry. PLAYERS HAVE TO BE ACCOUNTEABLE and be expected to WORK for their Scholarship.

catloya · Post by **catloya** » Tue Jan 04, 2005 11:44 am

thank you.i thought i was the only one thinking that.but to all you beal, alley,williams,etc fans out there....sorry but they arent going to be missed.and they could transfer or they can decide to stay and be a walk on....or they go home and do nothing.but lets talk about the good things next year in the program instead about the non-performers.so any news on recruiting??? anyways im done for now. ta ta.

wbtfg · Post by **wbtfg** » Tue Jan 04, 2005 11:48 am

This is just a general question: Can a coach just yank a scholarship anytime he/she pleases or is there a procedure that they have to follow?
What happens if they suffer a career ending injury while playing/training? I was just wondering how the process works and if there are any rules as to how you cut scholarship players.

mslacat · Post by **mslacat** » Tue Jan 04, 2005 12:58 pm

I can not say that things have not changed, but as of about 8 years ago, this is how it works. If you sign a letter
of intent you are guaranteed your scholarship and amount for the length identified on the
LOI. Now the minimum period of time is , one school year i.e. 2 semesters or 3 quarters,
as long as you meet conditions out lined in the LOI. Typically this is, you graduate from
high, and meet minimum grade standard while at school. So this generally means you
can not cut a Freshman, he is guaranteed that first year. After that coaches need provide
a list of scholarship players w/ type of ride (full ride, 1/2 ride etc.) in June to the NCAA, for the up
coming year. Any senior (by NCAA eligibility) on that list is guaranteed his scholarship
for his entire senior year (again by NCAA eligibility). A coach can cut a player, though, at any
time other time. Mid season,or from year to year as far as the NCAA is concerned. Many
schools though have there own policy that supplement these rules that protect the student athletes.

MSU88 · Post by **MSU88** » Tue Jan 04, 2005 4:54 pm

CARDIAC_CATS wrote:
MSU88 wrote:
inside guy wrote:Whats going on with the football program? They just cut atleast 5 decent athletes. In my honest opinion, some of those guys should not have been cut, it's not there fault if they don't perform as well as Kramer would like them too. If you have to cut any scholarship player that has to say something about you not the player, It's just saying that your not that good at judging talent. I wont get into names but Kellen Allen, and Jimmy Beal should not have been sliced just to name a few...
Their job is to perform up to the expectations of the head coach. That is why they are on scholarship! It is not an intramural program they are playing in.
There are NO FREE RIDES. You work hard/play smart and things will come. Kramer expects his players to excell in all areas ... academics/weight room/conditioning/preparation before you go on the field. If the player doesn't live up to those expectation (which by the way is all in their own power) then the coach has the right to replace them. Its not like he didn't give Beal a chance, he just never 'got it' on the field ... I've never seen so many stupid 'head' type mistakes in a game the past 2 years with Beal. You get 5-6 players doing those things and the team can go down like the Titanic in a hurry. PLAYERS HAVE TO BE ACCOUNTEABLE and be expected to WORK for their Scholarship.

Amen......excellent post!

MSU Football

MSU Football

Re: MSU Football

Re: MSU Football

Re: MSU Football

Re: MSU Football