Batted down passes

BleedsBlue&Gold · Post by **BleedsBlue&Gold** » Mon Jun 13, 2005 1:06 pm

Was anyone else concerned with the # of Lulay's passes that were batted down at the line in the EWU and UM games last Nov?

I don't think Lulay was doing anything different. Good defense or ? ? ? ?

wbtfg · Post by **wbtfg** » Mon Jun 13, 2005 1:11 pm

BleedsBlue&Gold wrote:Was anyone else concerned with the # of Lulay's passes that were batted down at the line in the EWU and UM games last Nov?

I don't think Lulay was doing anything different. Good defense or ? ? ? ?

That's a good question...I noticed the same thing. He actually had quite a few passes batted down throughout the season. I'm not sure if he has a low release or if he's staring down his receivers or it may be a receiver/oline problem. It is definitely a problem that needs to be corrected.

CARDIAC_CATS · Post by **CARDIAC_CATS** » Mon Jun 13, 2005 1:13 pm

BleedsBlue&Gold wrote:Was anyone else concerned with the # of Lulay's passes that were batted down at the line in the EWU and UM games last Nov?

I don't think Lulay was doing anything different. Good defense or ? ? ? ?

When you go 4-5 wide and pass that much the defensive lineman are going to be ready to bat down balls at the line. They know its coming. However, if you are a balanced offense and use the bruising running game along with play action .. suddenly those defensive lineman are back on there heals reacting to the run/keeping their center of gravity low. They could afford to take chances last year and jump for the ball as they knew it was coming. We ran more in 2002/2003 and I don't recall as many tips as I did last year. That is why it's important we can run the ball this year and be balanced! I think we will be.

WYCAT · Post by **WYCAT** » Mon Jun 13, 2005 1:16 pm

I hope you are correct Cardiac. It did seem to become more of a problem later in the season as we totally abandoned the running game so maybe you are right.

CARDIAC_CATS · Post by **CARDIAC_CATS** » Mon Jun 13, 2005 1:18 pm

wbtfg wrote:
BleedsBlue&Gold wrote:Was anyone else concerned with the # of Lulay's passes that were batted down at the line in the EWU and UM games last Nov?

I don't think Lulay was doing anything different. Good defense or ? ? ? ?
That's a good question...I noticed the same thing. He actually had quite a few passes batted down throughout the season. I'm not sure if he has a low release or if he's staring down his receivers or it may be a receiver/oline problem. It is definitely a problem that needs to be corrected.

Lulay does have a low release. If you watch, a 5-10 yard pass and a 20 yard pass all have the same SNAP to his throwing motion. He throws each one as hard as the other and on a line. However, like I said above .. when you pass that many times, the odds that you are going to get 2-3 tipped a game is going to go up a lot. We passed the stitches off the ball last year. That is going to happen. I would like to see him learn to feather his passes a little more in his intermediate range. My bet is they coach him to throw that way as part of their ball control (no turnover) scheme. They want the ball to be crisp from 5-20 yards no matter how far out the receiver is as the reaction time to get to the ball by the CB is diminished. So either our receiver catches it, it gets tipped or no one catches it. I really think some of the tips will be diminished with a better all around running game. 1) less attempts passing and 2) the DL will have to keep their center of gravity or be blown off the ball on a fake quick pass over the middle and then a quick draw to the RB. If the DL goes for the tip/fake our OL should mow him down and create a huge hole for the RB. Stuff like that. I think later in the year people just knew the ball was going to be in the air so why wouldn't you if you were a DL not jump up and try and tip the ball. I know I would.

mquast53000 · Post by **mquast53000** » Mon Jun 13, 2005 1:20 pm

BleedsBlue&Gold wrote:Was anyone else concerned with the # of Lulay's passes that were batted down at the line in the EWU and UM games last Nov?

I don't think Lulay was doing anything different. Good defense or ? ? ? ?

You know as well as I do that if a d-lineman puts his hands up you punish him. You need some o-linemen that will punch the d-linemen in the guts a couple of times, and they will keep their hands down.

CARDIAC_CATS · Post by **CARDIAC_CATS** » Mon Jun 13, 2005 1:22 pm

mquast53000 wrote:
BleedsBlue&Gold wrote:Was anyone else concerned with the # of Lulay's passes that were batted down at the line in the EWU and UM games last Nov?

I don't think Lulay was doing anything different. Good defense or ? ? ? ?
You know as well as I do that if a d-lineman puts his hands up you punish him. You need some o-linemen that will punch the d-linemen in the guts a couple of times, and they will keep their hands down.

My thoughts exactly on this. This is just another thing they should really empasize to our OL this year since teams will have the tips on film. The OL should be coached to punish the DL if they try and jump in air to get to those. And if it's a fake pass/draw and they see a DL going to tip, DESTROY/PANCAKE them to the ground immediately.

CelticCat · Post by **CelticCat** » Mon Jun 13, 2005 2:02 pm

Well if I were a D coordinator guarding against Lulay, I wouldn't send the DL blitzing all that often. I'd tell them to push a little, then just sit there and try and deflect the pass... not only does this disrupt the passing lanes, but has a less chance of causing Lulay to scramble... so you can keep more LBs hovering around the middle waiting for the pick.

I've seen it many times on different levels... their job is to block the pass and against Lulay it is a good strategy. One that will be weakened if we have a better running game.

BobcatLionFan · Post by **BobcatLionFan** » Mon Jun 13, 2005 3:19 pm

Lulay at times holds the ball a long time, especially last year. There were very few quick tempo passes where the OL cut blocked. It was mostly drop back and wait, wait, wait, then pass or run (which Lulay did well).

At times like that, it's obvious it's not a run and if the DL isn't getting to the QB, they are waiting for the pass also. You can't punish a DL man if it is taking more than 5 seconds to get off the pass.

PDXKat · Post by **PDXKat** » Mon Jun 13, 2005 4:16 pm

BobcatLionFan wrote:Lulay at times holds the ball a long time, especially last year. There were very few quick tempo passes where the OL cut blocked. It was mostly drop back and wait, wait, wait, then pass or run (which Lulay did well).

At times like that, it's obvious it's not a run and if the DL isn't getting to the QB, they are waiting for the pass also. You can't punish a DL man if it is taking more than 5 seconds to get off the pass.

He never held the ball for 5 seconds. If you noticed, most of the batted passes came at the end of games when both sides of the ball are 1) too tired to rush the passer and 2) too tired to make the rusher pay for jumping. It won't be a problem guys. Hopefully we have more play action to make the dline think for just a second.

G.W.Bush · Post by **G.W.Bush** » Mon Jun 13, 2005 5:13 pm

SACCAT · Post by **SACCAT** » Mon Jun 13, 2005 5:43 pm

This was prob. already been said, but could it be that we through the ball 40 or so times a game. There is a very good chance that on any play we run, if the D-Line jumps they will have a better that average chance to tip the ball.

BobcatLionFan · Post by **BobcatLionFan** » Mon Jun 13, 2005 6:54 pm

PDXKat wrote: He never held the ball for 5 seconds. If you noticed, most of the batted passes came at the end of games when both sides of the ball are 1) too tired to rush the passer and 2) too tired to make the rusher pay for jumping. It won't be a problem guys. Hopefully we have more play action to make the dline think for just a second.

I don't remember the ball being batted down at all at the end of the games. Actually that was typically when all the passing yards started to accumulate because of being behind and having to come back (which they did so well). In those cases, the passing was great even though the Defence knew what was going to happen "PASS". If that is what you are worry able, then don't.
I do remember the QB had lots of time, went back to some of the threads and they noted the time he was getting was huge. Especially through the middle of the season. I think you might be a little off on the memory??

In either case, BUSH is off on Bailey again. About the only thing he cares about writing about. Should focus on the price of oil first, then worry about Bailey.

PDXKat · Post by **PDXKat** » Mon Jun 13, 2005 7:03 pm

BobcatLionFan wrote:
PDXKat wrote: He never held the ball for 5 seconds. If you noticed, most of the batted passes came at the end of games when both sides of the ball are 1) too tired to rush the passer and 2) too tired to make the rusher pay for jumping. It won't be a problem guys. Hopefully we have more play action to make the dline think for just a second.
I don't remember the ball being batted down at all at the end of the games. Actually that was typically when all the passing yards started to accumulate because of being behind and having to come back (which they did so well). In those cases, the passing was great even though the Defence knew what was going to happen "PASS". If that is what you are worry able, then don't.
I do remember the QB had lots of time, went back to some of the threads and they noted the time he was getting was huge. Especially through the middle of the season. I think you might be a little off on the memory??

My last post on this subject because I'm not much concerned but think about EWU.

BobcatLionFan · Post by **BobcatLionFan** » Mon Jun 13, 2005 10:58 pm

PDXKat wrote: My last post on this subject because I'm not much concerned but think about EWU.

Awww, understand now. The OL was a little different in that game. Jensen had just broken his leg and Hirst started playing (wasn't 100%) and Bolton had moved out to LT, where he played OK, but was a little slow.

In the middle games, didn't see it as much as I said (especially late in the game). But understand you thought now.

But I STILL feel BUSH should fix the price of OIL and Gas before he brings up BAILEY again.

G.W.Bush · Post by **G.W.Bush** » Tue Jun 14, 2005 11:50 am

CARDIAC_CATS · Post by **CARDIAC_CATS** » Tue Jun 14, 2005 12:59 pm

G.W.Bush wrote:
In either case, BUSH is off on Bailey again. About the only thing he cares about writing about. Should focus on the price of oil first, then worry about Bailey.
Well I am currently in the process of “Good Offensive Play Calling for Oil” program. Hopefully we can get something worked out.

How did Bailey trick all of you bobcats into thinking that mediocrity is acceptable?

Hey, that gives me a new idea for another Bobcat poster this year. It could be WMD 2005 .. and have our whole offense pictured on it.

However, MSU may then be invaded and occupied

BobcatLionFan · Post by **BobcatLionFan** » Tue Jun 14, 2005 2:57 pm

G.W.Bush wrote:
Well I am currently in the process of “Good Offensive Play Calling for Oil” program. Hopefully we can get something worked out.

You will need the offensive calls to be predicable so you can keep the Oil prices consistent. Good to see you coming around.

Platinumcat · Post by **Platinumcat** » Tue Jun 14, 2005 8:04 pm

I agree with Quast on this topic. Back in the day I suited up, there was one sure fire way of keeping the guy acrossed from you from jumping; two quick fists to the gut! I guarantee you after this happens a few times to the defender, he re-thinks his strategy.

BobcatLionFan · Post by **BobcatLionFan** » Tue Jun 14, 2005 8:39 pm

You know, thinking about this over again, I just don't see it was, or is, that big of a problem with this team.
I think they suit up and do a great job whether punching the opposing DL or whatever.

In fact, I have the impression that McEndo is one of the better coaches of a very good coaching staff and the OL knows probably better than we do what they should do through that coaching. There are all-conference players all over that OL, so it must be doing something right.

If you pass for over 400 yards and over 300 consistently, then there is not a major problem there of getting the ball away.

If anything, a give-away take-away ratio is probably more important to consider. Last year, did we cause fumbles and get interceptions as much as we should of as a great team?

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