welsch banishment please

bobcatbeliever · Post by **bobcatbeliever** » Sun Aug 28, 2005 9:18 pm

Please, someone take this guy under their wing and teach him. The article about Bobby Hauk a few weeks ago made me cringe, but this has put me over the top. This article states the Bobcats would take second in the conference and host a playoff game, BUT anyone that reads it and has watched I-AA football EVER knows that according to the article the Bobcats would be 3rd in the conference and not even make the playoffs. Does the Chronicle have an editor?
http://bozemandailychronicle.com/articl ... welsch.txt

MSU01 · Post by **MSU01** » Sun Aug 28, 2005 9:21 pm

He has EWU winning the conference at 7-0, with MSU and PSU tied for second at 5-2. Then he seems to pick MSU to win a playoff game and lose in the Quarterfinals for a final record of 9-4...I don't see where the mistake is.

PapaG · Post by **PapaG** » Sun Aug 28, 2005 10:31 pm

The mistake is he says that PSU should win all of their home BSC games. MSU plays at PGE Park in October. If PSU wins all of their home games, and if MSU ends up tied with PSU for second, then PSU would technically get the 2nd spot because they would have beaten MSU in this scenario.

Really, though, this is much ado about nothing. Officially both teams would be in 2nd place, and since there is no auto berth for second, the original post seems to be an example of looking for a reason to criticize Welsch.

MSU01 · Post by **MSU01** » Sun Aug 28, 2005 10:40 pm

PapaG wrote:The mistake is he says that PSU should win all of their home BSC games. MSU plays at PGE Park in October. If PSU wins all of their home games, and if MSU ends up tied with PSU for second, then PSU would technically get the 2nd spot because they would have beaten MSU in this scenario.

Really, though, this is much ado about nothing. Officially both teams would be in 2nd place, and since there is no auto berth for second, the original post seems to be an example of looking for a reason to criticize Welsch.

Exactly...head to head results don't have to affect at-large playoff bids. Nice to know I'm not the only one who's missing Welsch's huge mistake.

El_Gato · Post by **El_Gato** » Mon Aug 29, 2005 8:20 am

Personally, I prefer my "hometown" sports guy to be a bit more sympathetic TOWARDS the hometown team & fans, not paint them in the way he has. Even if his claims are true, he essentially lumps all of us in the same category and I, for one, don't care for that. Do we like to razz the griz fans here & on egriz? Obviously. But aren't most of us just as likely to invite said griz fans to share an adult beverage with us at our tailgate party this November? I think so.

I couldn't care less if he picked the Griz ahead of us; the so-called experts picked us dead last in the conference in 1984, if I remember correctly. But to take shots at the Bobcat faithful shows me that Jeff has taken NO "ownership" of Bozeman, MSU, or the Bobcats. The more I read his writing, the more I see a guy who thinks this is just another resume-building stop and doesn't care how he portrays the local sports scene.

Post by **kmax** » Mon Aug 29, 2005 9:42 am

Something tells me that you guys would be all over Welsch whether he picked the Cats to go 11-0 or 0-11. Come on guys, when was the last time you remember having the entire sports page devoted to Bobcat Football...when the season hadn't even started yet?!? There were some great features and information there and it got me ready for some Bobcat football(as if I wasn't already). If you want the rah rah crap, get the print edition and read the "14 Reasons the Cats Will Win the Big Sky" article above Welsch's. There was enough blue n' gold colored homerism there for anybody.

Edit to add, I guess that one is online also, MSU football: 14 reasons why Bobcats will win Big Sky title

El_Gato · Post by **El_Gato** » Mon Aug 29, 2005 9:53 am

Yes, and the author of that particular one? Tim Dumas.

Bottom line for me is that with this commentary plus the Hauck interview (both of which struck me as having a # of subtle yet deragatory shots at Cat fans) plus several others, JW is more AMUSED by the Cat/Griz rivalry than he is interested in it, let alone caring if the Cats win or lose. The "mistaken identity" issue from the first day of camp shows me that JW isn't really all that in-tune with Bobcat football and like it or not, it IS the biggest game (and story) in town...

Post by **SonomaCat** » Mon Aug 29, 2005 9:57 am

And we wonder why sports writers make tongue-in-cheek comments about some members of the Bobcat fanbase.

wbtfg · Post by **wbtfg** » Mon Aug 29, 2005 10:01 am

I think that the sports staff has done a great job the past week or two. There have been at least one article a day on bobcat footbal in the chronicle for the past week. I am really enjoying all of the stories so early in the season.

Post by **kmax** » Mon Aug 29, 2005 10:05 am

Yes, thank you I can read bylines and understand that Welsch didn't write that particular piece. My point is that he is the Sports editor and he has directed the Chronicle in the last year into actually being something worth reading on Saturday and Sunday of football season, rather than having to go read the Great Falls Tribune(which I still do though).

I don't know Welsch personally, just saying for all the years Cat fans have complained about the (lack of) coverage by the Comical, it is amazing how much people bitch when someone comes in and tries to improve it. Constructive criticism is one thing, but coming on here and bitching about tiny errors and calling for his head does nothing.

grizbeer · Post by **grizbeer** » Mon Aug 29, 2005 10:10 am

MSU01 wrote:
PapaG wrote:The mistake is he says that PSU should win all of their home BSC games. MSU plays at PGE Park in October. If PSU wins all of their home games, and if MSU ends up tied with PSU for second, then PSU would technically get the 2nd spot because they would have beaten MSU in this scenario.

Really, though, this is much ado about nothing. Officially both teams would be in 2nd place, and since there is no auto berth for second, the original post seems to be an example of looking for a reason to criticize Welsch.
Exactly...head to head results don't have to affect at-large playoff bids. Nice to know I'm not the only one who's missing Welsch's huge mistake.

He also predicts PSU @ 6-5, so they would not meet the eligibility requirements of 7 wins to get an at-large bid. The big question is which other non-conf game he expects MSU to lose?

Post by **kmax** » Mon Aug 29, 2005 10:13 am

grizbeer wrote:
MSU01 wrote:
PapaG wrote:The mistake is he says that PSU should win all of their home BSC games. MSU plays at PGE Park in October. If PSU wins all of their home games, and if MSU ends up tied with PSU for second, then PSU would technically get the 2nd spot because they would have beaten MSU in this scenario.

Really, though, this is much ado about nothing. Officially both teams would be in 2nd place, and since there is no auto berth for second, the original post seems to be an example of looking for a reason to criticize Welsch.
Exactly...head to head results don't have to affect at-large playoff bids. Nice to know I'm not the only one who's missing Welsch's huge mistake.
He also predicts PSU @ 6-5, so they would not meet the eligibility requirements of 7 wins to get an at-large bid. The big question is which other non-conf game he expects MSU to lose?

My guess would be EWU since he has them finishing 7-0 in conference play.

MSU01 · Post by **MSU01** » Mon Aug 29, 2005 10:22 am

kmax wrote: I don't know Welsch personally, just saying for all the years Cat fans have complained about the (lack of) coverage by the Comical, it is amazing how much people bitch when someone comes in and tries to improve it. Constructive criticism is one thing, but coming on here and bitching about tiny errors and calling for his head does nothing.

I agree completely...as Welsch has surely discovered by now, you can't please everyone regardless of how well you do. I, for one, am more than satisfied with the significant improvements Welsch and his staff have made over what we had before he got here.

El_Gato · Post by **El_Gato** » Mon Aug 29, 2005 10:30 am

My last NOTE on this subject: I didn't call for his head. Personally, I just don't think the "local" sports editor should take as many "shots" at the local sports fans as often as I feel he does. And this is an opinion board, not a newspaper that people pay money to read, before JW or anyone else tries to call this kettle black...

As I stated earlier, in reading his "stuff", it simply strikes me that Bozeman is just another stop on JW's career tour; I'll take your word for the fact that he's significantly increased the quality of the Chronicle's sports page since I don't read it except when it town for Bobcat sports events (hint, hint); it really goes without saying that if he's looking to "move up", he'd have to have something to show for it. My point is that if he had any kind of "emotional investment" in the Cats, the way, say, Rial does for the Griz, I don't think we'd have ever seen several of the articles that have been referenced here.

I'm not personally attacking JW; I actually like his wit and sarcasm; I just think it should be pointed AWAY from MSU and Cat fans; when I cover the Braves, I can be a bit too brutally honest (read: analytical) at times about what I see on the field or the court, but I never take shots at them or their fans personally, because I am one of them.

Post by **kmax** » Mon Aug 29, 2005 10:37 am

El_Gato wrote:My last NOTE on this subject: I didn't call for his head. Personally, I just don't think the "local" sports editor should take as many "shots" at the local sports fans as often as I feel he does. And this is an opinion board, not a newspaper that people pay money to read, before JW or anyone else tries to call this kettle black...

As I stated earlier, in reading his "stuff", it simply strikes me that Bozeman is just another stop on JW's career tour; I'll take your word for the fact that he's significantly increased the quality of the Chronicle's sports page since I don't read it except when it town for Bobcat sports events (hint, hint); it really goes without saying that if he's looking to "move up", he'd have to have something to show for it. My point is that if he had any kind of "emotional investment" in the Cats, the way, say, Rial does for the Griz, I don't think we'd have ever seen several of the articles that have been referenced here.

I'm not personally attacking JW; I actually like his wit and sarcasm; I just think it should be pointed AWAY from MSU and Cat fans; when I cover the Braves, I can be a bit too brutally honest (read: analytical) at times about what I see on the field or the court, but I never take shots at them or their fans personally, because I am one of them.

Fair enough Gato, and for the record my post wasn't just directed at you but everyone who seems to come on here after a Welsch editorial to pile on him.

Personally, I don't see his comments about the fans as bad. I see it more as a somewhat sarcastic and slightly veiled hint to some fans that they take things a bit too seriously if they are threatening a journalist for picking one team over another based on their opinion. With this, I happen to agree with Welsch, it appears maybe you don't. Agree to disagree.

Cat-theotherwhitemeat · Post by **Cat-theotherwhitemeat** » Mon Aug 29, 2005 10:43 am

It seems as though Jeff is being criticized (somewhat) for not being a "Big time" Cat fan more than anything. Give him some time in Bozeman with the players, coaches, and fans and I would bet he becomes a bigger fan and the tone of his articles would reflect that. That is, if he stays long enough for that transition to happen.

Post by **SonomaCat** » Mon Aug 29, 2005 10:47 am

As to allegations of JW's intentions for his career, I believe he already answered that himself on a thread. If memory serves, he stated that he intends to make Bozeman his permanent home.

I have read a lot of sports columns in lots of major and minor media markets by writers who are often rabid fans themselves of the local teams. These columnists are often the first to be critical of both the team as well as the fans, so I don't think being a good journalist, a supporter of the local teams, and taking jabs at the more extreme elements of a fanbase are mutually exclusive traits.

Of course, when I wrote for my high school newspaper, I was always very complimentary of our teams and everyone else in the community ... but the pay wasn't that great.

El_Gato · Post by **El_Gato** » Mon Aug 29, 2005 10:50 am

Obviously that's over the line if someone actually did threaten him; but I'd be lying if I said that I wasn't skeptical that it's not just a case of "artistic license".

Either way, fans will be fans and I personally don't think it's the sports editor's place to insult ANY of them when he is covering their team. If anything, it's bad for business. Bash griz fans and I don't think circulation will suffer and we all know they're much easier targets anyway!

In the paragraph about Unitas et al, he essentially equates ALL of us to the guy he claims verbally assaulted him, IMO. As stated earler, I could care less where JW ANALYTICALLY places us in the conference, but I'd like to get the sense that he would PREFER we win it all and I can't say that based on the admittedly limited amount of his work I've seen.

I'll predict one of the following: A) JW moves on within the next couple of years, or B) he stays and he DOES become more emotionally invested in the Cats and we don't see many/any of these type comments any longer...

I'll PS here since a couple of posts snuck in before mine: I didn't see the posts where JW expresses his desire to stay in Bozeman; if that's the case, then I'm confident B) will eventually happen.

Post by **SonomaCat** » Mon Aug 29, 2005 10:53 am

El_Gato wrote:Obviously that's over the line if someone actually did that; but I'd be lying if I said that I wasn't skeptical that it's not just a case of "artistic license".

That allegation sounds familiar.

El_Gato · Post by **El_Gato** » Mon Aug 29, 2005 10:58 am

It's not as if we haven't seen a significant amount of that in the media lately. Forgive me for being skeptical; I wish I was more of a "glass is half-full" kinda guy...