Will we see the 4-3 next year?

MSUcantouchus · Post by **MSUcantouchus** » Sun Oct 16, 2005 1:21 pm

It is painfuly obvious that the 3-4 did not accomplish its goal of stopping the run. In fact it has done just the opposite. So does this mean we will go back to the 4-3 next year?

MSUcantouchus · Post by **MSUcantouchus** » Sun Oct 16, 2005 1:25 pm

I think the 3-4 has bottled up our great D cordinator, likely cause he doesn't know as much about the 3-4, but he doesn't seem to be coming up with as effective of schemes as he did with the 4-3.

One more Q is there any chance we go back to the 4-3 this year if we get the D-line more heathy.

iaafan · Post by **iaafan** » Sun Oct 16, 2005 1:50 pm

Too many injuries this year to really call the 3-4 a failure. Next year it's Kolone, Papich and Matakis with Siataga, Saucedo rotating in with others. Much better there. LBs are Lowe, King, Daly and Ashley. Mauia rotating in, not bad. DBs are Force, Fuller, Austin, D. Davis, C. Davis, LeBlanc, pretty good. As the D gets better, the O get worse. Carpenter, Groves, Lulay, Brown, Roosevelt, Taito...??? The O-Line gets practically wiped out. Note a trend? Good D, bad O. Good O, bad D. Mediocre special teams every year.

BozoneCat · Post by **BozoneCat** » Sun Oct 16, 2005 2:44 pm

I'm not sure if we need to scrap the 3-4, but something obviously needs to be done. Something drastic. We are not going to improve significantly enough just by focusing on our present schemes - they just are not working.

One of our major problems is that we are very undersized at linebacker and safety. Lowe and Marudas have the size, but no one else does. You would like your linebackers to be at least 230. Mac has figured out how to be effective despite his lack of size. Daly should be able to get up to 230 by next season. King needs to hit the weights hard to get his size up, hopefully he can keep his speed while doing so. You would like to see your safeties running around 220, and none of our safeties are that size. What that means is that it is even harder to use your size and strength to overpower guys one-on-one when you blitz. Obviously, there is nothing we can do to change that this season.

Personally, I would like to see what we can do in a conventional 4-3. I don't know how effective it would be, but I can't imagine it being much worse than what we have seen so far. The #1 thing we have to work on defensively is our tackling - it is horrible. I just can't believe that a Mike Kramer/Pete Kwiatkowski defense tackles so horribly. The #2 thing we need to address is our lack of any kind of pass rush. We will not stop any QB in the country from looking like a star if we can't get some consistent pressure on him and force him out of his comfort zone. Any single one of us could complete passes if we could just stand in the pocket all day. Our defensive schemes have been terrible so far this year. We get teams in 3rd and long, then rush 3 and drop 8, and guys still end up wide open downfield. Maybe if we didn't give them 10 seconds to get open, our secondary would look a little better. When we do bring blitzes, they are largely ineffective. We aren't doing a good job of disguising anything, our guys aren't beating their guys, and we aren't tackling when we have the chance.

Btowncat · Post by **Btowncat** » Sun Oct 16, 2005 3:45 pm

I think our tackling throughout the year has been poor, but (with the exception of Rubin's backup's t.d.), I actually thought the tackling was a bit better than usual last night. It seemed to me that even on plays that it looked like we stopped Rubin at the line, he gained 4-5 yards. That translates to the line of scrimmage being moved back significantly before Rubin gets there.

I assume we'll stay in the 3-4 (at least for the rest of this year). However, particularly based on our d's performance in the last several games, do we really have anything to lose by playing more press coverage and blitzing the fudge out of the other team? On run plays, we'll hopefully clog things up more. On pass plays, we'll give up some long plays, but maybe we won't make pedestrian or worse quarterbacks look like future hall of famers (like we have done about 4 of the last 5 games).

BozoneCat · Post by **BozoneCat** » Sun Oct 16, 2005 4:06 pm

I disagree about the tackling last night, I thought it was abyssmal. The TD run by Kennett was just a microcosm of our tackling ineptitude over the whole season.

I agree completely about playing more press coverage. Maybe not against Eric Kimble, but certainly against other teams with receivers who are not of that caliber. I hate this zone coverage. Teams can get 8-10 yards on every play with our zone. Why? Because our defensive coordinator doesn't know how to design a zone defense, just as he doesn't know how to design a 3-4 defense. Kwiatkowski was brought in because he was a mastermind of designing an aggressive defense predicated on man coverage. Now, our defense is the most passive I have ever seen, we have the aggression of a comatose hippy tripping on weed, and we run zone coverage that leaves holes open all over the field.

BelgradeBobcat · Post by **BelgradeBobcat** » Sun Oct 16, 2005 9:55 pm

I don't know what's the right thing to do-what we're doing this season sure ain't working.

It's not for lack of effort on our player's part-in fact they're probably trying too hard at times. Time and time again last night we got burned on screens and misdirection. Our guys were way overpusuing and getting caught with their collective pants down. We did an "adequate" job on Rubin-he had 137 yards on 34 carries. That's a pretty tough day's work. It was the stupid screen passes and reverses that really killed us. Their fullback had 4 carries for something 47 yards! There's your ballgame.

No matter what defense you play-if you don't force a team to punt at least once in a half you're probably going to lose.

Helcat72 · Post by **Helcat72** » Sun Oct 16, 2005 11:12 pm

BelgradeBobcat wrote:I don't know what's the right thing to do-what we're doing this season sure ain't working.

It's not for lack of effort on our player's part-in fact they're probably trying too hard at times. Time and time again last night we got burned on screens and misdirection. Our guys were way overpusuing and getting caught with their collective pants down. We did an "adequate" job on Rubin-he had 137 yards on 34 carries. That's a pretty tough day's work. It was the stupid screen passes and reverses that really killed us. Their fullback had 4 carries for something 47 yards! There's your ballgame.

No matter what defense you play-if you don't force a team to punt at least once in a half you're probably going to lose.

I totally agree...as I see it the problem is either in lack of preparation, discipline or effort!

BobCatFan · Post by **BobCatFan** » Mon Oct 17, 2005 5:56 am

the 3-4 is a biltzing defense and we are not biltzing. Maybe 3 or 4 times a game.

gtapp · Post by **gtapp** » Mon Oct 17, 2005 7:58 am

I think that most of our defensive problems just comes down to talent, or lack thereof. On the D-Line we have Rogers (scheduled to be a back-up at the beginning of fall practice), Papich (a walk-on player), Siataga (a JC transfer and Kramer has always said that JC transfers need one year in the system to be productive). At LB we have Daly (a walk-on player), King and Mollohan (both very talented but smaller than most teams safeties) and Marudas. Our DB's have played pretty well even though two expected contributors (Smith and Davis) have played little this year. It is hard to cover someone for 10 seconds on every play.

This is just not your typical star packed Bobcat defense. Gone are the quick DL who could pressure the QB. Find me another Cordeiro, Montoya, Taylor, Sebestyen, Cooper and Ioane and now we have a defense. Each of them was a two or three time all BSC performer. Throw in Thomas and Hackett and you can see the large drop off in talent form just a few years ago.

catsrback76 · Post by **catsrback76** » Mon Oct 17, 2005 8:54 am

I think we have to be able to contest more LOS action with a 6-3 particularily when we are in a run situation. When we go 3-4 it is obvious that those O Line fire off and chip the LB's.
Contest that more at the line and fill the middle with Mollohan.
The 3-4 has got to be practiced more on those passing plays/Teams so that the LB's get better drops and learn those techniques that let them key in on the TE's and backs coming out of the backfield.

Obviously we have to contest more in every area of the Defense. We cannot counterpunch. We have to come out and "fly around" ALL THE TIME. Our guys can do it--

There are some coaching issues as well. I think our defense is not at a place where giving the opposing team possession at the 35 and higher will ever work. Our Kicking guys better start streching out their legs and booming them. Kick the ball deep all the time!!!

Hell's Bells · Post by **Hell's Bells** » Mon Oct 17, 2005 10:15 am

the question is that were we preparied to run a 3/4 this year?

yes our D linemen are big and tallented. But face it, a 3/4 is not the type of formation which would allow a d linemen to get a sack or 2. that is the 4/3.

also our d coordinatior is not calling blitzes most if not all the time and therefore compounding the problem.

mquast53000 · Post by **mquast53000** » Tue Oct 18, 2005 10:54 am

Word on the street is that we will go back to 4-3 in 2006. There are a lot of unhappy customers about the results of our 3-4 experiment.

BobcatLionFan · Post by **BobcatLionFan** » Tue Oct 18, 2005 11:23 am

mquast53000 wrote:Word on the street is that we will go back to 4-3 in 2006. There are a lot of unhappy customers about the results of our 3-4 experiment.

Interesting. Either they have to get change their their DEs to be larger and stronger than they are now or shift back. If they shifted back, would they then move Sweet Lou back to OL and put him at RG?

mquast53000 · Post by **mquast53000** » Tue Oct 18, 2005 11:39 am

BobcatLionFan wrote:
mquast53000 wrote:Word on the street is that we will go back to 4-3 in 2006. There are a lot of unhappy customers about the results of our 3-4 experiment.
Interesting. Either they have to get change their their DEs to be larger and stronger than they are now or shift back. If they shifted back, would they then move Sweet Lou back to OL and put him at RG?

I don't know all the details, but I have a pretty good source on this one.

We will be in a 4-3 defense next year.

Helcat72 · Post by **Helcat72** » Tue Oct 18, 2005 11:55 am

We will have to find some D ends with speed. I doubt any of the present D linmen would qualify!

canyoncat · Post by **canyoncat** » Tue Oct 18, 2005 12:23 pm

What about Macciola? Wasn't he a sack machine at his JC the last couple of years? There is one, I think. There is also Joe Schreibeis. Didn't he play D end in High School at a very high level? Could Lowe be moved back to D end if we go back to the 4-3 next year? One thing is certian, we would have the deepest DT rotation

GO CATS!!

94VegasCat · Post by **94VegasCat** » Tue Oct 18, 2005 12:54 pm

canyoncat wrote:What about Macciola? Wasn't he a sack machine at his JC the last couple of years? There is one, I think. There is also Joe Schreibeis. Didn't he play D end in High School at a very high level? Could Lowe be moved back to D end if we go back to the 4-3 next year? One thing is certian, we would have the deepest DT rotation

GO CATS!!

Just a question. If we are thin at DT with a 3 man front, where do you surmise that we would be deep on talent next year with a 4 man front? I may not be seeing the math that you are using, can you show me what you are looking at?

BobcatLionFan · Post by **BobcatLionFan** » Tue Oct 18, 2005 1:15 pm

Not sure, but what I think he is saying is that the current DEs and NTs would be inside DTs next year. Thus moving 3 positions to 2 openings.

Then the DEs for next year would be all NEW fast guys in the style of Lowe. That the current DEs would be to big and slow?

Just a guess

mquast53000 · Post by **mquast53000** » Tue Oct 18, 2005 1:55 pm

BobcatLionFan wrote:Not sure, but what I think he is saying is that the current DEs and NTs would be inside DTs next year. Thus moving 3 positions to 2 openings.

Then the DEs for next year would be all NEW fast guys in the style of Lowe. That the current DEs would be to big and slow?

Just a guess

You could move some of the LBs to DE too. Cordeiro, Ross, Taylor all came in as a LBs and made the move to DE and/or DT.