The Bobcat Nation

I have been reading this week about how the NIL and the transfer portal has completely changed the landscape of college football. Obviously we’re seeing the results of that as we’ve got 6 in the portal and our lines are being devastated by the cherry picking that money and transferring is NOW the reality!

So, it appears to me that a “move up” to the FBS may not be an issue of FCS team getting too big for the FCS, but rather a question of “is the FCS simply a stock yard” for the FBS?

If that’s the case I think it may in fact be true that for MSU and UM that the “handwriting is on the wall” and a move up may be the inevitable trajectory of our teams. I’ve been against the move up, but now it’s clear that things like “program” are only going to be cotton candy talk and aren’t reality in this new situation!

Your thoughts?

Move up doesn't fix the transfer issue. Look at Ohio State. Losing 13 and a top team in country. Don't understand some of this. If already getting large NIL and playing why leave?

tetoncat wrote: ↑

Wed Dec 06, 2023 8:49 pm

Move up doesn't fix the transfer issue. Look at Ohio State. Losing 13 and a top team in country. Don't understand some of this. If already getting large NIL and playing why leave?

Yes, I agree that it certainly wouldn’t stop guys transferring out…but I’m of the impression that the FCS guys are all looking to move UP and not laterally. It’s clear that the portal is always going to be there and the money will always cherry pick the best players so that the rich get richer…but if you’re not the “rich”, or at least well healed, you’re on the bottom looking up always.

The FBS label/realities would at least potentially keep some from leaving for the “more exposure” FBS. I’m spitballing here….

Players would still be getting lured away. Most likely FBS conference is Mountain West. MSU’s NIL is more organized than most of the schools in that conference, so there’s nothing stopping the SEC, ACC, Big 10/12, etc from taking our best players if we did move up. It sucks to say, but I think this is just our new reality.

MSU can't afford to move up. It costs much, much more to compete in FBS.

First you've got 22 additional scholarships to pay for. Then you have 4-5x salaries for the coaching staff (Choate just signed for $5.7 million, 5 years at one of the worst FBS schools). And now you need the huge NIL pot if you want to be competitive and retain talent.

Yup, just waiting on that big old magic pot of money to materialize to make this really easy move up to the FBS light league.

I don’t think there is an existing conference wanting to add the Montana schools. Mountain West just agreed to scheduling OSU and WSU, so that doesn’t look like an option. I doubt the Sunbelt Conference wants us (and honestly who wants to play in that garbage conference). The only way it might happen would be to take willing Big Sky and MVFC and start up a new conference. Even if that happened, where is the NIL money coming from?

I think the realistic option is to keep developing players and hit the portal for FBS players looking for more playing time. We brought in some pretty good transfers last year, and I would imagine we’ll do the same this year.

Yes, it works both ways. We have benefited from players who were not getting adequate playing time or something at an FBS school and dropped down to FCS. That is something we have to continue to do to offset the damage.

I don't think we will see MSU move up.

Some have said that we could move up to FBS if MSU, UM, SD, SDSU, ND, NDSU, Idaho, Idaho State etc. formed a new conference called the Mountain-Praire Conference. However, I think the sole reason teams move up is to try to secure the big conference TV money. I can't see a brand new conference doing that, especially given the relatively low populations of the above mentioned states.

catsrback76 wrote: ↑

Wed Dec 06, 2023 8:43 pm

I have been reading this week about how the NIL and the transfer portal has completely changed the landscape of college football. Obviously we’re seeing the results of that as we’ve got 6 in the portal and our lines are being devastated by the cherry picking that money and transferring is NOW the reality!

So, it appears to me that a “move up” to the FBS may not be an issue of FCS team getting too big for the FCS, but rather a question of “is the FCS simply a stock yard” for the FBS?

If that’s the case I think it may in fact be true that for MSU and UM that the “handwriting is on the wall” and a move up may be the inevitable trajectory of our teams. I’ve been against the move up, but now it’s clear that things like “program” are only going to be cotton candy talk and aren’t reality in this new situation!

Your thoughts?

If you're in the bottom rungs of FBS (G5), then good players will just "move up" to the Big 12/ ACC. If you're in the Big 12/ ACC, then good players will just "move up" to the B1G/ SEC.

Going to FBS doesn't solve any transfer issues. It does, however, require 1) dramatically more money to operate and 2) recruiting much, much better players in the first place to even compete.

All to play at a level where you (or UM) will never remotely sniff the chance at any national title (or even a semifinal) ever again.

Berkeley_Griz wrote: ↑

Thu Dec 07, 2023 9:27 am

catsrback76 wrote: ↑

Wed Dec 06, 2023 8:43 pm

I have been reading this week about how the NIL and the transfer portal has completely changed the landscape of college football. Obviously we’re seeing the results of that as we’ve got 6 in the portal and our lines are being devastated by the cherry picking that money and transferring is NOW the reality!

So, it appears to me that a “move up” to the FBS may not be an issue of FCS team getting too big for the FCS, but rather a question of “is the FCS simply a stock yard” for the FBS?

If that’s the case I think it may in fact be true that for MSU and UM that the “handwriting is on the wall” and a move up may be the inevitable trajectory of our teams. I’ve been against the move up, but now it’s clear that things like “program” are only going to be cotton candy talk and aren’t reality in this new situation!

Your thoughts?

If you're in the bottom rungs of FBS (G5), then good players will just "move up" to the Big 12/ ACC. If you're in the Big 12/ ACC, then good players will just "move up" to the B1G/ SEC.

Going to FBS doesn't solve any transfer issues. It does, however, require 1) dramatically more money to operate and 2) recruiting much, much better players in the first place to even compete.

All to play at a level where you (or UM) will never remotely sniff the chance at any national title (or even a semifinal) ever again.

100% correct.

Berkeley_Griz wrote: ↑

Thu Dec 07, 2023 9:27 am

catsrback76 wrote: ↑

Wed Dec 06, 2023 8:43 pm

I have been reading this week about how the NIL and the transfer portal has completely changed the landscape of college football. Obviously we’re seeing the results of that as we’ve got 6 in the portal and our lines are being devastated by the cherry picking that money and transferring is NOW the reality!

So, it appears to me that a “move up” to the FBS may not be an issue of FCS team getting too big for the FCS, but rather a question of “is the FCS simply a stock yard” for the FBS?

If that’s the case I think it may in fact be true that for MSU and UM that the “handwriting is on the wall” and a move up may be the inevitable trajectory of our teams. I’ve been against the move up, but now it’s clear that things like “program” are only going to be cotton candy talk and aren’t reality in this new situation!

Your thoughts?

If you're in the bottom rungs of FBS (G5), then good players will just "move up" to the Big 12/ ACC. If you're in the Big 12/ ACC, then good players will just "move up" to the B1G/ SEC.

Going to FBS doesn't solve any transfer issues. It does, however, require 1) dramatically more money to operate and 2) recruiting much, much better players in the first place to even compete.

All to play at a level where you (or UM) will never remotely sniff the chance at any national title (or even a semifinal) ever again.

I see both of your points as valid. As long as the transfer portal exists in its current form, the idea of being a "developmental program" in this bottom tier of the universe, be it FCS, G5, wherever, the portal is going to be able to lose you your best 6-8-10 guys every year but also bring some good talent back. Moving up doesn't avoid it. But to catsrback's point, how frustrating to develop All-America, all-conference type guys and continually lose them. There's a monetary cost in each of them that's not insignificant. The quality of the product at these lower levels will inevitably suffer, as i don't think the portal is a true 1 for 1 exchange for us. Clearly isn't this year. If you just recruit Montana kids and portal kids you'll have a bit better version of NAIA ball, with the top montana kids going to the flagships but less "arms and legs" from the speed states. Not saying it's naia but it's going to be diluted football. I honestly don't see a great path unless and until there's a split in the ncaa or a new governing body (CFP?) emerges to create tiers with some boundaries between them.

If we move up we'd probably be less prepared to compete in the transfer portal. Moving up will result in higher costs for tickets and the QBC fees would rise as well. That leaves less money for people to contribute to the NIL fund. If players are moving up to the FBS for cash, we would have less to offer them than we do now.

We'll never see a Troy Andersen type again if nothing else changes. I would be a frustrated coach if I was working hard to make a player better to see them get poached. We are a farm league now.

AFCAT wrote: ↑

Wed Dec 06, 2023 10:22 pm

Yup, just waiting on that big old magic pot of money to materialize to make this really easy move up to the FBS light league.

You post this in every thread about moving up likes its a good one. It isn't. Celtic did a great job in the "moving up" thread laying out the differences between MSU and a few regional, similar institutions that operate in the MWC. Things like corporate support, media and NCAA distributions all go up at the FBS level and would carry the bulk of the heavy lifting.

https://bobcatnation.com/bobcatbb/viewt ... 45#p822897

Really with just modest boost in institutional support MSU would be a operational MW school. If we got NAU type of support along with fan support (ticket sales) they would be toward the top of the pack. So stop pedaling this myth that the money is too big of a hurdle. It isn't. Lots of schools run FBS programs with much less fan support than MSU.

Prodigal Cat wrote: ↑

Thu Dec 07, 2023 10:52 am

AFCAT wrote: ↑

Wed Dec 06, 2023 10:22 pm

Yup, just waiting on that big old magic pot of money to materialize to make this really easy move up to the FBS light league.

You post this in every thread about moving up likes its a good one. It isn't. Celtic did a great job in the "moving up" thread laying out the differences between MSU and a few regional, similar institutions that operate in the MWC. Things like corporate support, media and NCAA distributions all go up at the FBS level and would carry the bulk of the heavy lifting.

https://bobcatnation.com/bobcatbb/viewt ... 45#p822897

Really with just modest boost in institutional support MSU would be a operational MW school. If we got NAU type of support along with fan support (ticket sales) they would be toward the top of the pack. So stop pedaling this myth that the money is too big of a hurdle. It isn't. Lots of schools run FBS programs with much less fan support than MSU.

Yup, so easy. Can’t wait. That money will always be there too. When is it going to happen?

AFCAT wrote: ↑

Thu Dec 07, 2023 11:07 am

Prodigal Cat wrote: ↑

Thu Dec 07, 2023 10:52 am

AFCAT wrote: ↑

Wed Dec 06, 2023 10:22 pm

Yup, just waiting on that big old magic pot of money to materialize to make this really easy move up to the FBS light league.

You post this in every thread about moving up likes its a good one. It isn't. Celtic did a great job in the "moving up" thread laying out the differences between MSU and a few regional, similar institutions that operate in the MWC. Things like corporate support, media and NCAA distributions all go up at the FBS level and would carry the bulk of the heavy lifting.

https://bobcatnation.com/bobcatbb/viewt ... 45#p822897

Really with just modest boost in institutional support MSU would be a operational MW school. If we got NAU type of support along with fan support (ticket sales) they would be toward the top of the pack. So stop pedaling this myth that the money is too big of a hurdle. It isn't. Lots of schools run FBS programs with much less fan support than MSU.

Yup, so easy. Can’t wait. That money will always be there too. When is it going to happen?

SO easy! Just look at the success of Nevada or FBS Idaho! Many seasons of winning, bowl appearances, full stadiums, etc.

91catAlum wrote: ↑

Thu Dec 07, 2023 11:26 am

AFCAT wrote: ↑

Thu Dec 07, 2023 11:07 am

Prodigal Cat wrote: ↑

Thu Dec 07, 2023 10:52 am

AFCAT wrote: ↑

Wed Dec 06, 2023 10:22 pm

Yup, just waiting on that big old magic pot of money to materialize to make this really easy move up to the FBS light league.

You post this in every thread about moving up likes its a good one. It isn't. Celtic did a great job in the "moving up" thread laying out the differences between MSU and a few regional, similar institutions that operate in the MWC. Things like corporate support, media and NCAA distributions all go up at the FBS level and would carry the bulk of the heavy lifting.

https://bobcatnation.com/bobcatbb/viewt ... 45#p822897

Really with just modest boost in institutional support MSU would be a operational MW school. If we got NAU type of support along with fan support (ticket sales) they would be toward the top of the pack. So stop pedaling this myth that the money is too big of a hurdle. It isn't. Lots of schools run FBS programs with much less fan support than MSU.

Yup, so easy. Can’t wait. That money will always be there too. When is it going to happen?

SO easy! Just look at the success of Nevada or FBS Idaho! Many seasons of winning, bowl appearances, full stadiums, etc.

I'm confused. Are you referring to the decade that Nevada made a bowl game every year from 2005 to 2015 except one? Or the 4 years straight from 2018 to 2021 that they went bowling? Or the fact that they average more in attendance than any team not named MT in the BSC last season despite being one of the worst FBS teams in the country and worst attended season they've had in 30+ years? AND averaged more fans than MSU in 2021. That Nevada?
https://nevadasportsnet.com/news/report ... since-1989

AND continue to use the Idaho crutch. The one lone team to move back to FCS among the dozens that have moved up in the last 3 decades. The team that has 2 FBS teams with in a few hours drive of them that were already established. That play in a crappy dome in a tiny town that is hard to get to.

AFCAT wrote: ↑

Thu Dec 07, 2023 11:07 am

Prodigal Cat wrote: ↑

Thu Dec 07, 2023 10:52 am

AFCAT wrote: ↑

Wed Dec 06, 2023 10:22 pm

Yup, just waiting on that big old magic pot of money to materialize to make this really easy move up to the FBS light league.

You post this in every thread about moving up likes its a good one. It isn't. Celtic did a great job in the "moving up" thread laying out the differences between MSU and a few regional, similar institutions that operate in the MWC. Things like corporate support, media and NCAA distributions all go up at the FBS level and would carry the bulk of the heavy lifting.

https://bobcatnation.com/bobcatbb/viewt ... 45#p822897

Really with just modest boost in institutional support MSU would be a operational MW school. If we got NAU type of support along with fan support (ticket sales) they would be toward the top of the pack. So stop pedaling this myth that the money is too big of a hurdle. It isn't. Lots of schools run FBS programs with much less fan support than MSU.

Yup, so easy. Can’t wait. That money will always be there too. When is it going to happen?

Looks like you read it and gave a reason, measured and mature response.

Just compare the difference between watching a FCS playoff game that means something vs. one of the 35 or so minor bowl games with 70% of the stadium empty. States like Montana with a relatively low population will never see the big TV money that comes from most FBS conferences. As stated by others, just ask Idaho how it all worked out. You want to see an instant replay of the Idaho experiment?

Prodigal Cat wrote: ↑

Thu Dec 07, 2023 11:51 am

AFCAT wrote: ↑

Thu Dec 07, 2023 11:07 am

Prodigal Cat wrote: ↑

Thu Dec 07, 2023 10:52 am

AFCAT wrote: ↑

Wed Dec 06, 2023 10:22 pm

Yup, just waiting on that big old magic pot of money to materialize to make this really easy move up to the FBS light league.

You post this in every thread about moving up likes its a good one. It isn't. Celtic did a great job in the "moving up" thread laying out the differences between MSU and a few regional, similar institutions that operate in the MWC. Things like corporate support, media and NCAA distributions all go up at the FBS level and would carry the bulk of the heavy lifting.

https://bobcatnation.com/bobcatbb/viewt ... 45#p822897

Really with just modest boost in institutional support MSU would be a operational MW school. If we got NAU type of support along with fan support (ticket sales) they would be toward the top of the pack. So stop pedaling this myth that the money is too big of a hurdle. It isn't. Lots of schools run FBS programs with much less fan support than MSU.

Yup, so easy. Can’t wait. That money will always be there too. When is it going to happen?

Looks like you read it and gave a reason, measured and mature response.

Yes, because a BN thread will be used by as a roadmap for moving up to the FBS. Pass the thread on to Leon and Waded, they will be making the decisions. I’m just wondering what’s holding up the big move.