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Opening the Playbook Philosophy
Posted: Fri Sep 06, 2024 4:07 pm
by 4thecats
Every year I always hear that the reason we only run 3 or 4 plays and our offense is so vanilla is because we are not "opening the Playbook".
I've never understood this philosophy if it is such a thing. Do you feel this is the case or do we just have extremely boring offensive coordinators?
I feel like our team has enough returning talent that they should be very comfortable with a lot more offensive sets and looks.
Are you of the mindset of playing only a few plays as to not show your cards, or are you of the mindset of showing it all out there and getting good at gamespeed and saying to the other teams... This is who we are, so come and give us your best shot.
I of the later mindset,especially with so many veteran players and experice, if you throw a ton of looks at a team, it seems hard to be prepared for it all.
Thoughts?
Re: Opening the Playbook Philosophy
Posted: Fri Sep 06, 2024 4:14 pm
by wbtfg
We only run 3 or 4 plays?
Re: Opening the Playbook Philosophy
Posted: Fri Sep 06, 2024 4:41 pm
by shebobonmycat
Disclaimer: I'm not close to a football expert.
My main issue with play calling is it seems like when the offence can't get going, we almost never seem to make an adjustment. Also with how good our run game is consistently an improved passing game would be great
Re: Opening the Playbook Philosophy
Posted: Fri Sep 06, 2024 5:46 pm
by tetoncat
4thecats wrote: ↑Fri Sep 06, 2024 4:07 pm
Every year I always hear that the reason we only run 3 or 4 plays and our offense is so vanilla is because we are not "opening the Playbook".
I've never understood this philosophy if it is such a thing. Do you feel this is the case or do we just have extremely boring offensive coordinators?
I feel like our team has enough returning talent that they should be very comfortable with a lot more offensive sets and looks.
Are you of the mindset of playing only a few plays as to not show your cards, or are you of the mindset of showing it all out there and getting good at gamespeed and saying to the other teams... This is who we are, so come and give us your best shot.
I of the later mindset,especially with so many veteran players and experice, if you throw a ton of looks at a team, it seems hard to be prepared for it all.
Thoughts?
How many plays do you think we're run the first 2 games.
Re: Opening the Playbook Philosophy
Posted: Fri Sep 06, 2024 5:58 pm
by GoCats18
I just want to see us use these next two games to open up the passing game. Our WR’s deserve to get their time in the spotlight. Also, we need to run Adam Jones outside the box more.
Re: Opening the Playbook Philosophy
Posted: Fri Sep 06, 2024 6:33 pm
by MSU01
I feel like it's pretty much a lose-lose situation for the offensive coordinator in terms of taking criticism. Fans have 20-20 hindsight in their criticisms of plays that didn't work and often forget that the coordinators didn't know the defense was going to call up the perfect blitz package or coverage scheme that stopped a good play from succeeding.
If they run the ball up the middle too often, fans will say they lack creativity even if they're racking up 300+ rushing yards game after game after game.
If they try some more creative plays and they don't work, fans will immediately revert to "RUN THE DAMN BALL" even though trying those other plays can help the run game by forcing the defense to at least devote some of its attention to defending the pass.
Re: Opening the Playbook Philosophy
Posted: Fri Sep 06, 2024 6:55 pm
by 4thecats
Not trying to be negative so don't be offended. I've just noticed a trend the last few years of people talking about saving plays for later.
I just figured we would have have more variety in our play calling.
If nothing else, get a little practice in because I've we run into a team that stops our run game I would hope we have reps on other formations
Re: Opening the Playbook Philosophy
Posted: Fri Sep 06, 2024 7:45 pm
by MSU01
4thecats wrote: ↑Fri Sep 06, 2024 6:55 pm
Not trying to be negative so don't be offended. I've just noticed a trend the last few years of people talking about saving plays for later.
I just figured we would have have more variety in our play calling.
If nothing else, get a little practice in because I've we run into a team that stops our run game I would hope we have reps on other formations
I'd guess that the offense in reality is far more complex than what we see as relatively (or completely) uninformed fans, and that the 3 or 4 different plays you think you see are more like 30 or 40. I think the "saving plays for later" idea mainly would apply to things like trick plays you think will work, as there's no point to run those against Utah Tech or Mercyhurst so that Idaho and Montana can watch them on film and plan for them. I think MSU has tried quite a bit to do other things than just run so far, with mixed success. I'm just glad that the passing offense this year appears to have cut out the multiple 50-50 balls down the sideline that haven't worked since Lance McCutcheon graduated.
Re: Opening the Playbook Philosophy
Posted: Fri Sep 06, 2024 8:30 pm
by tetoncat
Last week had Jones take direct snap with 4 in backfield. That was new. I think you see different formations depending on defense. Threw to Jones (TE) , Dowler, and RB way more. First week it was Alexander and McCullouch.
While your question of opening playbook is a valid one, following that with a statement that we only run 4 or 5 plays seems like you don't watch the games.
Re: Opening the Playbook Philosophy
Posted: Fri Sep 06, 2024 8:57 pm
by technoCat
Yeah, people who say we only run 3 or 4 plays are looking at formations and not the actual play. They aren't accounting for different motions or different players blocking in different concepts during the play. If we really only ran 3-4 plays, opposing defenses would read it immediately and stuff us every time.
Plus, if you run a bunch of different plays and they don't work, you get behind the sticks and you get less plays because you're not extending drives.
Re: Opening the Playbook Philosophy
Posted: Fri Sep 06, 2024 10:10 pm
by AFCAT
It’s kind of funny, look at the two play drive on Adam Jones big TD run at New Mexico. Those two plays were the exact same play. The first time the Cats ran the play, Tommy kept the ball and Adam Jones was stuffed by the Lobo d-lineman. Tommy was corralled pretty quick by a horse collar tackle and the Cats had a holding call, so there was offsetting penalties. The Cats ran the exact same play again, but Tommy handed the ball off to Adam this time. That same d-lineman that tackled Adam on the previous play, was blocked slightly better the second time and barely missed Adam, and then it was Adam off to the races. Same play twice in a row, vastly different results.
Re: Opening the Playbook Philosophy
Posted: Fri Sep 06, 2024 10:48 pm
by GoCats18
This is exactly what happened last year against Idaho. They stopped our run game, slowed the pace of the game down and took advantage of our lack of creativity on offense. We all know that our offense is capable of 500+ yards in every game. I just don’t think we that running up the middle 40 times a game is the best way to do that…at least not from a fans standpoint (boring).
Re: Opening the Playbook Philosophy
Posted: Fri Sep 06, 2024 11:37 pm
by Bobcat4Ever
Rushing for 325+ yards per game is never boring.
Re: Opening the Playbook Philosophy
Posted: Sat Sep 07, 2024 1:19 pm
by Common Cat
Hot routes, screen passes, quick slants all take advantage of stacked boxes. Can’t say I’ve seen any so far.
Re: Opening the Playbook Philosophy
Posted: Sat Sep 07, 2024 1:20 pm
by BleedingBLue
Common Cat wrote: ↑Sat Sep 07, 2024 1:19 pm
Hot routes, screen passes, quick slants all take advantage of stacked boxes. Can’t say I’ve seen any so far.
We haven't seen more than a handful in 10 years.
Re: Opening the Playbook Philosophy
Posted: Sat Sep 07, 2024 1:38 pm
by TomCat88
Common Cat wrote: ↑Sat Sep 07, 2024 1:19 pm
Hot routes, screen passes, quick slants all take advantage of stacked boxes. Can’t say I’ve seen any so far.
So do quick outs or whatever they're called. They've run those extensively, especially to take advantage of their new toy...Adam Jones. WRs have been in on these, too. That play not only widens the field and gets teams out of stacking the box, but it also sets up a ton of other stuff.
Re: Opening the Playbook Philosophy
Posted: Sat Sep 07, 2024 1:45 pm
by Common Cat
TomCat88 wrote: ↑Sat Sep 07, 2024 1:38 pm
Common Cat wrote: ↑Sat Sep 07, 2024 1:19 pm
Hot routes, screen passes, quick slants all take advantage of stacked boxes. Can’t say I’ve seen any so far.
So do quick outs or whatever they're called. They've run those extensively, especially to take advantage of their new toy...Adam Jones. WRs have been in on these, too. That play not only widens the field and gets teams out of stacking the box, but it also sets up a ton of other stuff.
Agreed. The routes I mentioned attack the middle of the field. IMO that could be something we could really take advantage of.
Re: Opening the Playbook Philosophy
Posted: Sat Sep 07, 2024 2:15 pm
by Lord Vigo
IMHO, the playbook is far too diverse. They need to runner fewer plays. The forward pass is a fickle maiden. Zone read, QB power… you don’t need anything else.
Re: Opening the Playbook Philosophy
Posted: Sat Sep 07, 2024 8:01 pm
by onceacat
Common Cat wrote: ↑Sat Sep 07, 2024 1:45 pm
TomCat88 wrote: ↑Sat Sep 07, 2024 1:38 pm
Common Cat wrote: ↑Sat Sep 07, 2024 1:19 pm
Hot routes, screen passes, quick slants all take advantage of stacked boxes. Can’t say I’ve seen any so far.
So do quick outs or whatever they're called. They've run those extensively, especially to take advantage of their new toy...Adam Jones. WRs have been in on these, too. That play not only widens the field and gets teams out of stacking the box, but it also sets up a ton of other stuff.
Agreed. The routes I mentioned attack the middle of the field. IMO that could be something we could really take advantage of.
Nobody wants to hear this, but the Cats haven't had a QB who could make those passes consistently since Dakota Prukop left. In the first few games so far, it looks like Mellot has made some nice progress as a passer...if he can hit those routes as a top notch passer, I'd expect to see more passing.
But as long as hes a significantly better runner/zone read QB than passer, I wouldn't expect to see a lot of passing.
Re: Opening the Playbook Philosophy
Posted: Sat Sep 07, 2024 8:03 pm
by onceacat
Lord Vigo wrote: ↑Sat Sep 07, 2024 2:15 pm
IMHO, the playbook is far too diverse. They need to runner fewer plays. The forward pass is a fickle maiden. Zone read, QB power… you don’t need anything else.
And the QBs that the Cats have had for the last decade have been GREAT at running zone & QB power (Tommy, Sean, Troy, et al) and average at best as passers.
If the Cats were to recruit the next Denarius McGhee or Vernon Adams or Giovanni McCoy, the Cats would be passing the ball a lot more.
