garland...

[c.falls cat]

Parody? How about 'parity'.

ya, there is plenty of that too!!!


parody???

[CelticCat]

Did somebody say parody?

[Old Skool Cat]

Did somebody say parody?

Stop calling me Shirley!

[mslacat]

*****Mods: I kind of got off track a little bit off track on this post, If you think I got to much off topic feel free to move it.******

My thoughts on Garland and Montana High school basketball recruiting

If the Montana State and Montana men's basketball teams had 15 scholarships like the women currently do and the men did 10 or so years back Garland would be playing D-1 ball right now (given that is what he wished to do). This is more than just my opinion, but based on some conversations I have had with people from both programs. Ignoring Garland's basketball talent for just a minute, people/coaches just love the kid. They love his attitude, they love how hard he works, and they love that he plays with a chip on his shoulder. Now couple that with some very good basketball skills and you have a player that timing really sucked for him. When he was a senior, both the Huse and Tinkle were trying to revamp their respective programs after taking it over just a year or two earlier. They had kids in the program that were not necessarily a perfect fit for their systems, and to each coaches credit they were not willing to dump kids. Scholarships were of a premium.

Garland was/is a 6-4 power forward coming out of high school and any way you look at it he would have needed time to adjust to the speed and athleticism of the D-1 game. With only 13 scholarships that the programs now have (actually MSU only had 12 that year), neither program felt like they could take a chance on an undersized kid. Both programs wanted more immediate impact kids.

I think this has been the story for almost the entire 2000's, with boarder line Montana kids not getting looks in favor of out of state kids. Garland compares very favorable (and most like better) than former Bobcat Cason Durr, but a lot has to do with timing. Durham knew the Durr family, and Mick was also very comfortable with his position at MSU and he took a chance. I can tell you this the Grizzly coaches thought that Durr was a waste of a scholarship when MSU signed him, but I can guarantee you Coach Huse was tickle to death to have him on his roster his first season coaching at MSU. With 15 scholarships, you can afford to bring a great kid in who may take a while to develop but can contribute in practice and makes the team better by the force of his character. That is what Durr did and by his junior and senior year he was an important role player for the Bobcats.

Now the interesting thing going forward is that both Tinkle and Huse are starting to hit their stride now, they are comfortable in their positions and you will notice the number of JC being brought in is dwindling each year to 1 or none. That said though the two coaches are taking different approaches to instate recruiting. Huse is making a point to take a chance on a local Montana player occasionally while Tinkle is limiting his Montana recruiting to just sure fire recruits only. Yes they both will recruit the Josh Huestis's of Montana (even before his stock took off) and their are even a few very promising Montana underclassmen, but it seems Tinkle is being very judicious on which Montana's he will offer scholarships to. Quite frankly Tinkle feels very confident about the quality of players from out of state he can attract to Montana. So much so that he feels that better talent (OK debatable) is more important than collecting a few brownie points by signing an occasional extra Montana player.

Huse is also recruiting Montana players as walk-ons much harder than the Griz programs seems to be.

This year Huse took a chance on Blake Brumwell from Big Sandy and signed him to a scholarship. Once again I am told the Griz coaches giggled at the Cat's taking him. The best comparison that I have heard to describe Brumwell is to that of former Bobcat Mike Fellows (with much better range). At the time Brumwell committed, the Bobcats were recruiting high school post like Brad Waldo from Sacramento (Waldo's father is a former Bobcat) who is now averaging 25 points 10 rebounds a game among others centers also offered. When Brumwell committed, the coaches accepted and stopped recruiting that spot. A few years back I would have bet the Bobcat’s would have heald out a little longer for one of the other prospects, but not this year.. As a matter of fact if Garland was a senior this year there definitely would have been a better chance of him getting an offer from Montana State than two year ago.

Like I mentioned above, I have the opportunity to talk to people in the know, I can tell you with out a doubt that if the men's programs did have the 15 scholarships that not only would have Garland been offered by both schools but it would have been an intense battle for his services. That is the difference the 14th and 15th scholarships mean. To take the argument one more level, look to the MSU women's program. With their last scholarship last year they signed Rachel Semansky from little Highwood Montana. All this undersized post has done is average 8 rebounds a game in conference and last Saturday against Weber State scored 16 points and 11 rebounds as a true freshman. Not too bad for a prospect most people thought would be a sure fire redshirt this year. Montana players have a long history of proving the so called experts wrong.

Unfortunately I think the two scholarships taken away from all D-1 programs some years back is going reduce the D-1 opportunities for Montana kids, and that irritates me. On the other hand players like Garland, get the chance to dominate NAIA programs from the first moments they step on the court. Who is to say whether Garland is better off being an all conference player for Carroll College from his true freshman year on or whether riding the bench (redshirt) at MSU or UM for a few years. I believe though he would have liked the opportunity to make the choice himself.

[canyoncat]

Great info as always mslacat! Wish you would post more often.

[whitetrashgriz]

great post mslacat, and exactly what i expected to hear. he was a victim of circumstances, and that's it. it had nothing to do with him not having enough talent. so, if one was keeping score, i made a point that so far mslacat agrees with, coach turcott agrees with, coach huse agrees with, and coach tinkle agrees with. i'd say that's good company. weird i haven't heard back from the poster who claimed my statement was



although i agree that garland is probab;y happy where he is, the fans and coaches love him, and he's gonna have one hell of a career for carroll. i look forward to watching him play over the next couple years.

[TrueCat]

Well, since you missed me so much...I am back!

I did think it was BS and continue to do so. It is easy to play the "woulda, coulda, shoulda" game. But the bottom line (as msulacat pointed out) was that Garland was an undersized player coming out of high school and neither coach had a scholarship available for him. End of story.

He is a great kid with a huge heart and works really hard, but let's not confuse that with D1 talent.

[whitetrashgriz]

Well, since you missed me so much...I am back!

I did think it was BS and continue to do so. It is easy to play the "woulda, coulda, shoulda" game. But the bottom line (as msulacat pointed out) was that Garland was an undersized player coming out of high school and neither coach had a scholarship available for him. End of story.

He is a great kid with a huge heart and works really hard, but let's not confuse that with D1 talent.

maybe re-read mslacats post. he not one time said that garland didn't have the talent. that's where you are very wrong. how is it possible for current and former coaches to agree that he has the talent, but the rest of us are just confused? he's be one of the better players on the cats roster THIS year. i'm curious who on the cats you think is so talented that garland couldn't play ahead of him? other than brandon johnson, bobby howard, and erik rush, there is no one on our entire team that i wouldn't give up for garlands services. his heart and work ethic would merely be a bonus. thre kid has d1 talent for sure.

[mslacat]

Well, since you missed me so much...I am back!

I did think it was BS and continue to do so. It is easy to play the "woulda, coulda, shoulda" game. But the bottom line (as msulacat pointed out) was that Garland was an undersized player coming out of high school and neither coach had a scholarship available for him. End of story.

He is a great kid with a huge heart and works really hard, but let's not confuse that with D1 talent.

That's what they said about Kevin Criswell, PJ Owsley, Casey Durham and Mike Warhank just to name a few. There is a difference between someone not willing to take a chance on you and not being D-1 talent. Some times you prove them wrong. Ask anyone Garland is a heck of a lot better now than anyone thought he would be two years ago. Would that translate from the NAIA game to Gig Sky level, that is a tough call, but like I said before quite a few Montana players have proven the experts wrong.

[TrueCat]

All I am saying is that playing well in the NAIA against NAIA talent is a far cry from D1...again, nothing against Garland, but I would be hard pressed to be convinced it would translate to the same level of productivity.

[whitetrashgriz]

All I am saying is that playing well in the NAIA against NAIA talent is a far cry from D1...again, nothing against Garland, but I would be hard pressed to be convinced it would translate to the same level of productivity.

i specifically said he wouldn't be as productive. he wouldn't get 20 and 10 in the big sky most likely. but he'd be one of the best guys on our roster. let's not forget that we are talking about montana state here. it's not kansas or ucla. i'm not saying playing d1 basketball is easy, but people are either over-estimating the talent of the cats and the big sky, or they are under-estimating the level of talent that the naia is beginning to have. like mslacat pointed out, some of these kids want to play right away, so you're getting better and better guys at the lower levels. in this case, i can assure you that had garland been coming out of school right now, he'd be playing d1 ball. i think msla's post was spot on, and notice that no one is questioning the kids talent.

[TrueCat]

Agree to disagree...

[whitetrashgriz]

Agree to disagree...

that's easy. i'm right. you're wrong.

[TrueCat]

I would not go that far ...but I am a fan of Garland and his talents.

[4everacatfan]

What bothers me about this whole thing is: Who did we take instead of a absolute great "student-athlete" and one of the hardest working players I have ever seen? A JC guy who on a good hair day might be 6'5" and rides the pine because all he does when he gets in is fouls and causes yet another turnover by it. At the time coach Sprinkle was the recruiting coordinator and this one he should have gone with the high school kid who would have developed rather than the suspect JC route which has not panned out.

(Just so everyone knows I have posted many times on how I understand you need a few JC guys here and there but to sustain a program you need 4 and 5 year guys who really buy in to the system.) Huse was hired on the idea that he was going to go that route and build a lasting program. that year he brought in 4 JCs Bynum, Navarre, Henderson, and Larry ?? and two High school guys Anderson and Brown. Well this JC class is ON a very good day 50%, Larry is gone and Henderson averages more fouls then minutes. I thought back then and still do he could have given that scholarship he gave to Henderson to Garland.

JMO - By the way I watched Garland play AAU the summer before his senior year and though he was undersized he he battled and won on the boards. Rebounding is not all about size but about determination and that is something he demonstrated in the AAU circut. Thanks coach Sprinkle for your great evaluation of talent (I have felt this way for two years about this issue and I do not even live in Montana.)

[whitetrashgriz]

What bothers me about this whole thing is: Who did we take instead of a absolute great "student-athlete" and one of the hardest working players I have ever seen? A JC guy who on a good hair day might be 6'5" and rides the pine because all he does when he gets in is fouls and causes yet another turnover by it. At the time coach Sprinkle was the recruiting coordinator and this one he should have gone with the high school kid who would have developed rather than the suspect JC route which has not panned out.

(Just so everyone knows I have posted many times on how I understand you need a few JC guys here and there but to sustain a program you need 4 and 5 year guys who really buy in to the system.) Huse was hired on the idea that he was going to go that route and build a lasting program. that year he brought in 4 JCs Bynum, Navarre, Henderson, and Larry ?? and two High school guys Anderson and Brown. Well this JC class is ON a very good day 50%, Larry is gone and Henderson averages more fouls then minutes. I thought back then and still do he could have given that scholarship he gave to Henderson to Garland.

JMO - By the way I watched Garland play AAU the summer before his senior year and though he was undersized he he battled and won on the boards. Rebounding is not all about size but about determination and that is something he demonstrated in the AAU circut. Thanks coach Sprinkle for your great evaluation of talent (I have felt this way for two years about this issue and I do not even live in Montana.)

i agree with your post but just so you know, i remember talking to sprinks and he was high on garland too. in fact, he liked him better than at least one of the guys you mentioned. but as mslacat pointed out, both msu and um were in situations where they were trying to create systems that belonged to the coaches after recent coaching changes, and that makes things more difficult. combine that with the lack of scholarships and i can understand how this happened. i was dissapointed then, as i was sure that garlans was d1 talent, but i'm even more dissapointed now after seeing how he's grown as a player, and seeing what the cats glaring weaknesses are. garland would help this team immidiately. there is only one or two posters that say they dont think garland has the talent to play for the cats. it seems as the majority understands his talent, accepts that he could easily play for the cats or griz, but was a victim of circumstances and timing. but make no mistake...the coaches who were here when garland was a junior and senior were very impressed with his game. sprinks maybe more than the others. just didn't work out. but i'd take him on the cats this minute, and he'd help us big time.

[Old Skool Cat]

Just to add more fuel to the fire on this topic, Andy Garland was named the Frontier Conference Player of the Year in only his sophomore season: http://carroll.edu/athletics/newsitemview.php?id=13220" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Garland voted Frontier Conference Player of the Year
March 10, 2010

By JEFF WINDMUELLER Independent Record

Andy Garland just added a couple of more accomplishments to top the Carroll College sophomore's stellar career list. The former Montana Gatorade Player of the Year and honorable mention NAIA All-American received the Frontier Conference's 2010 Player of the Year on Monday, capping a season where he led the league in points and rebounds per game.

Garland, a 6-foot-5 post player out of Missoula Sentinel, had an average of 18.8 points and 9.9 rebounds per game for the Saints, who finished the season 13-16 overall, 6-8 in the Frontier.

Saints head coach Brandon Veltri said that he wasn't surprised by Garland's recognition, despite how young the player is.

"I think regardless of what grade he's in, he just had an impressive season, and he earned it," the coach said. "He's a tough guy to guard in the sense that he can do a litle bit of everything."

Becoming the focal point of opposing defenses after the graduation of five seniors and former scoring leader Chad Vaculin in 2009, Garland broke through double teams and fought through injury to increase his production during his second season without sacrificing accuracy.