What would it take to turn MSU into a basketball power?

[mboston33]

Our program needs a leader in the athletic dept. and also a coach that is respected by the players and the fans. He needs to be a good recruiter and a good basketball coach with good knowledge and experience.

We have none of those at MSU currently. Too many players who contribute nothing to the team: Singleton contributes little as does his mini substitute, Cody Anderson none, Piepoli nothing, Rush and Howard average. Too many out of state players who are rejects or players who cannot play elsewhere, obviously. Two Montana kids on the team and the out of state ones cannot play. Bobcats are on a free fall due to poor recruiting, poor players, poor coaching, therefore poor support. Bring in a quality team who can compete and play hard and I will support them 100% until then nada.

[BelgradeBobcat]

I agree with all those who say $$$. That probably more than anything is needed.

Utah State, whom I brought up earlier, had the $$$ to hire Morrill away from Colorado State. Gonzaga has the $$$ to keep Few in Spokane. MSU couldn't do either senario.

$$$ for assistants. I'm sure our assistants are great guys and work very hard, but a bigger budget can buy more experience and more importantly guys with more contacts.

$$$ of recruiting. I wonder if the way to bigger success at a school at MSU is with some foreign players. To get those players (who haven't been passed over by bigger programs) it has to be expensive. That's just one example, more money buys more plane trips to AAU tourney's and that sort of thing too.

And finally $$$ for facilities. If I was a billionaire I'd build us a new building for football practice, rodeo, and indoor track. Then I'd completely gut the inside of the fieldhouse and build a new arena inside. Like they did at the University of Washington. A full bowl seating configuration, suites, big screens and all that stuff.

But aside from all that-is it really too much to ask that our men's basketball program do a little better than it has over the last 20 years? We've got more $$$, fan support, and better facilities than most Big Sky schools-but we've not had a lot of success.

[grizzh8r]

Our program needs a leader in the athletic dept. and also a coach that is respected by the players and the fans. He needs to be a good recruiter and a good basketball coach with good knowledge and experience.

We have none of those at MSU currently. Too many players who contribute nothing to the team: Singleton contributes little as does his mini substitute, Cody Anderson none, Piepoli nothing, Rush and Howard average. Too many out of state players who are rejects or players who cannot play elsewhere, obviously. Two Montana kids on the team and the out of state ones cannot play. Bobcats are on a free fall due to poor recruiting, poor players, poor coaching, therefore poor support. Bring in a quality team who can compete and play hard and I will support them 100% until then nada.

Oh boy, get ready for a hurricane...

In all seriousness, I do object to the last sentence. This team DOES compete and play hard, they just aren't very good and have no identity. Too many "tweeners" trying to play their positions.

I happen to like Singleton, and I know he will be better next season (JC transfers usually are). In all fairness to Cody, his knee has been a major problem this season, though I don't know how effective he would be even if he was healthy... He just seems to lack the skills a center should possess. And for whatever reason, Danny is in a real slump right now shooting the ball, and if he's not making shots, he becomes a liability out there. Rush and Howard are really the only two players on this team who can create their own shot, but when the defense keys in on them, there's not really anyone else that they can rely on.

Bobby had such a good season last year, but that was a much different team; much more atheletic with Bynum, Navarre, and BJ, who all provided good secondary scoring options, and any of them could go off for 10-15 points a game at times.

Back on topic, $$$ is always nice, but I agree that a skilled big man is SO important in this league. Look how far we got two seasons ago with Mbunga and BJ. One shot away from The Big Dance. Mbunga's probably the best center we've had since Damir Latovic. Everyone loved Al Beye, and I affectionatly refferred to Ted Morris as "The Meat Wagon", but they weren't as powerful or assertive as Divaldo was. Marvin Moss was powerful but only about 6'7" and had a bit of a 'tude. Damir Latovic was probably the last REALLY good center we had, but he was here just one season. MSU won the Regular season BSC Championship that season. Coincidence? No.

[CatBlitz]

Our program needs a leader in the athletic dept. and also a coach that is respected by the players and the fans. He needs to be a good recruiter and a good basketball coach with good knowledge and experience.

We have none of those at MSU currently. Too many players who contribute nothing to the team: Singleton contributes little as does his mini substitute, Cody Anderson none, Piepoli nothing, Rush and Howard average. Too many out of state players who are rejects or players who cannot play elsewhere, obviously. Two Montana kids on the team and the out of state ones cannot play. Bobcats are on a free fall due to poor recruiting, poor players, poor coaching, therefore poor support. Bring in a quality team who can compete and play hard and I will support them 100% until then nada.

Says the guy with Boston in his screen name.

[MSU01]

Back on topic, $$$ is always nice, but I agree that a skilled big man is SO important in this league. Look how far we got two seasons ago with Mbunga and BJ. One shot away from The Big Dance. Mbunga's probably the best center we've had since Damir Latovic. Everyone loved Al Beye, and I affectionatly refferred to Ted Morris as "The Meat Wagon", but they weren't as powerful or assertive as Divaldo was. Marvin Moss was powerful but only about 6'7" and had a bit of a 'tude. Damir Latovic was probably the last REALLY good center we had, but he was here just one season. MSU won the Regular season BSC Championship that season. Coincidence? No.

Yep - it's not exactly a huge mystery to determine the main difference between Bobcat teams that have struggled and those that have contended for and occasionally won championships. Of course, every coach out there is fully aware of this and skilled, physical big men are only slightly more easy to find than conference MVP freshman quarterbacks.

I don't think another coaching change is the answer, unless there are deeper problems in the program than any of us know about. No APR problems, no off-court troubles, a decent if not great win-loss record. Everyone knows there needs to be improvement, Coach Huse more than anyone, and it will happen. We'll be back in the NCAAs at some point, even if it happens once they expand to a 256-team field and MSU snags the last at-large spot over UC Riverside and Texas A&M Corpus Christi.

[TomCat88]

I think luck is the winner.

Bring in some players that others miss on (luck) and have players come in who improve dramatically (luck). That might get you a decent seed ala UM a few years ago when they played Nevada, then win that game, but go on to catch the next team on a bad day for them (luck) and win another. Then have most, if not all, of those guys back the next year and do it again. I don't think one year is enough. Do it twice and after that you're getting to the Sweet Sixteen on skill, but you'll then need to avoid bad luck to stay up there. Teams like Gonzaga are real susceptible to crashing down and never getting back up. UNLV is one that comes to mind.

I don't frown on luck and will take it any day.

Speaking of UM they have a team that could pull the above off this year. Cherry, assuming he's not out for the year, can hold his own against the best. Qvale and Selvig have great size. If they can get anything from the other two and their bench they can beat almost anyone.

Weber State came so close a couple times. Won that first game, then just barely lost the second. Utah, as you know, is a good basketball state and Weber seems to always be right on the verge, but something never falls in place for them.

[ilovethecats]

Our program needs a leader in the athletic dept. and also a coach that is respected by the players and the fans. He needs to be a good recruiter and a good basketball coach with good knowledge and experience.

We have none of those at MSU currently. Too many players who contribute nothing to the team: Singleton contributes little as does his mini substitute, Cody Anderson none, Piepoli nothing, Rush and Howard average. Too many out of state players who are rejects or players who cannot play elsewhere, obviously. Two Montana kids on the team and the out of state ones cannot play. Bobcats are on a free fall due to poor recruiting, poor players, poor coaching, therefore poor support. Bring in a quality team who can compete and play hard and I will support them 100% until then nada.

ha....someone is gonna take a little heat off me!

[John K]

Recruiting big men that can play, period. Under the leadership of Huse and Durham, the program just either has not been willing or has not been capable of recruiting big men. And I don't think it's a money thing, or a "better place to play" thing or even a "better school" thing. The other day I was looking at the rosters of all the Big Sky schools, and we are among the smallest. ISU has three guys at 6'11" or better and they can all play. UM has Qvale and Selvig - great players with tremendous size. You can't tell me that either of those places have any tremendous advantage over MSU in b-ball recruiting! You have to have good interior play to win championships, period. When you go cold from shooting on the perimeter, which the Cats do quite often, you have to be able to move the ball inside and score. We just do not have that ability, nor have we in many years. MSU will continue to struggle if we can't recruit solid post players.

Your comment about recruiting big men would seem to have some validity, because the one period in recent memory when MSU had a pretty good run of success was from 1995-1999, when we had guys like Nate Holmstadt, Quadre Lollis, Damon Ollie (I think that was his name?), and even John Lazosky was decent. All those guys averaged 15-18 points and 7-10 rebounds per game, and we just generally haven't been very strong inside since that era.

[TIrwin24]

The coach and his ability to surround himself with a competent staff is the biggest key to winning IMO.

MSU needs a coach to breathe fire back into the basketball program in a serious way.

[John K]

But aside from all that-is it really too much to ask that our men's basketball program do a little better than it has over the last 20 years? We've got more $$$, fan support, and better facilities than most Big Sky schools-but we've not had a lot of success.[/quote]

I agree with your last paragraph in particiular. I'm not sure it's realistic to think that MSU could ever become "the next Gonazaga". For one thing, where's the money going to come from? Most MSU alumni and boosters are going to contribute to the football program before basketball, and some BNers are already speculating about what should be the next phase for expansion/improvement of Bobcat Stadium. And as a small, private school with no football program, the situation is very different at Gonzana versus MSU.

That being said, I agree that we should be better than we've been. Maybe we can't be Gonazaga, but even rising to the level of being a consistent BSC title contender would be a huge improvement, and an attainable goal. There's no reason our program can't be comparable to UM and WSU, and I for one would be more than satisfied with that. I've been following MSU hoops since the 1977-78 season, and in those 33 seasons we've won the BSC title and gone to the NCAA tourney exactly twice. And we haven't been able to win even a single game in the BSC tourney, in 10 of the last 11 years. We should at least be better than that, even if we can't be Gonzaga.

[mboston33]

Bring on the heat! I can handle it and this past weekend only reaffirms my previous post. Cats may not win another game unless they play Rocky or MSU B between now and the end of the year. NCAA tournament for CATS or Griz, no prayer for either. Be realistic and get your head out of your _ _ _ and see that a change is needed. C'mon Fields step up.

[ImagineSanta]

But aside from all that-is it really too much to ask that our men's basketball program do a little better than it has over the last 20 years? We've got more $$$, fan support, and better facilities than most Big Sky schools-but we've not had a lot of success.

I agree with your last paragraph in particiular. I'm not sure it's realistic to think that MSU could ever become "the next Gonazaga". For one thing, where's the money going to come from? Most MSU alumni and boosters are going to contribute to the football program before basketball, and some BNers are already speculating about what should be the next phase for expansion/improvement of Bobcat Stadium. And as a small, private school with no football program, the situation is very different at Gonzana versus MSU.

That being said, I agree that we should be better than we've been. Maybe we can't be Gonazaga, but even rising to the level of being a consistent BSC title contender would be a huge improvement, and an attainable goal. There's no reason our program can't be comparable to UM and WSU, and I for one would be more than satisfied with that. I've been following MSU hoops since the 1977-78 season, and in those 33 seasons we've won the BSC title and gone to the NCAA tourney exactly twice. And we haven't been able to win even a single game in the BSC tourney, in 10 of the last 11 years. We should at least be better than that, even if we can't be Gonzaga.[/quote]

First, off-topic. *Warning lights* I was saying the misspellings of "Gonzaga" out loud, and I literally laughed out loud.
If the next couple of years continue to be like this, when does the AD pull the plug on Huse? I say the end of next year. I would miss his yells though, that man can yell with the best of them.

[John K]

Wow, I really butchered my spelling of Gonzaga didn't I?....multiple times in multiple ways. I'm usually pretty careful about my spelling....will even go back and edit a post if I spot a word spelled incorrectly. I guess I still need some more coffee this morning....or something.

[4everacatfan]

I agree a quality center would be great the Cats had one Jordan Salley but alias grades he was here for a short time this summer. Had he been able to handle the academic side he would have allowed Cody to play in smalller spurts and he would have been able to guard the big physical posts in this conference. Our coaches are trying to get bigs I think the problem is quality "student -athletes" are a tough commedity. At MSU you have to be a student as well as a player or you are gone and I do not see that as a bad thing but it is a hurdle to our recruiting at times. We do have a big guy coming in next year I cannot remember his name who is suppose to be extremely good but I did hear just recently he had a ACL tear this last month. Someone who is more knowledgeable then me on this please help with the name.

Winning makes all the bad stuff go away at least for a little while . Right now we are struggling because as many have said we have two players who can create and we have a lot of immature and undisciplined younger guys who should by now understand the defenses and the sets we run on offense and for whatever reason they do not want to run them. Huse needs to do with these young guys what he did with both Howard and Rush as younger players get up in their faces and make them run what he wants because right now we run some things pretty well and we do get good looks but for most of it it looks like street ball. guys jacking up threes as soon as they cross half court and not having a clue on how to get back and play transition defense. When we are shooting so poorly maybe we need to slow things down and limit the opportunities the other team gets at the offensive end, there is no excuse for not being able to guard the 3 pointer it is not like our guards are busy helping down on the post , our post are pretty much left to fend for themselves.

JMO

[Domako]

Against my better judgement, I'm going to chime in hear and give my opinion. I think it comes down to 2 things, recruiting
and player development.

At this level you are not going to get star recruits, you are going to need to look for kids that have potential and then
you need to turn that potential into pure talent. Easy to say, hard to do. How many players in the past 20 years have
been significantly better as seniors than they were as freshman? I say not many.

Coaching today is mostly about team concepts, help defense, running offensive sets, transition defense and tons of
other team concepts. What I think coaches miss at this level is that they need to spend way more time developing
individual improvement like: how to get your own shot off, jumping boxes (individual athleticism), finishing in traffic,
ball handling (guards and big men). Go to a college practice and see how much time is spent working on team concepts
and how much is spent on individual improvement and you will see what I'm talking about.

Most coaches know the X's and O's well enough for a team to win if they have the talent. The trick is to get that talent.
Talent at the high levels is recuited while talent and the lower level schools is developed. Find a coach who can teach
players to get better individually and keep the motivation up over 4 years and you will find your recipe for success
at the Big Sky level.

[wbtfg]

With regards to player development, you may be right about coaches not emphasizing that much during the season, however I believe the entire offseason (as much as the NCAA allows) is devoted to individual player development...no?

That said...I don't really have any better ideas, other than to hire Mslacat as our recruiting coordinator.

[Domako]

With regards to player development, you may be right about coaches not emphasizing that much during the season, however I believe the entire offseason (as much as the NCAA allows) is devoted to individual player development...no?

That said...I don't really have any better ideas, other than to hire Mslacat as our recruiting coordinator.

The NCAA certainly does put tons of restrictions on practices outside of the normal season, there is no question about that. The kids can put as much time
as they wish on their own though. Starner used to give us a list of skills each off season that he wanted us to get better at drills that may help. You also need
to keep your kids motivated to do the work and give them the incentive that when they do improve their is something in it for them too (playing time). I certainly
don't know if Brad does these things or not, I'm not that close to the team. I hope so!

I just don't see the year over year improvement from each player that I think you need to get to build a winning program. I am certainly not a college coach and have
no experience in player development, only my own. It seems that I am always saying the this kid or that kid has promise for a freshman only to watch them for four
years and say that I thought they were going to turn out better than that. I'm just another fan hoping that we will once again have a great basketball team to cheer
on.

[DicTater]

Couple O' things. First, it would be great to be able to recruit athletic big men, but they are a very prized and rare commodity. Every college in the US is looking for those guys. Even places like Villanova and Marquette play guys 6'8" and smaller. The Griz got lucky with Qvale and Selvig. Selvig was always going to UM and Qvale was his good friend. It'll never happen again for them.

Secondly, I agree totally with Tom D. For some reason, the young guys don't seem to improve as they get older. Bobby Howard is pretty much the same player he always was. Hell, even his FT % is probably the same. Maybe guys don't feel like they have to improve their games because they aren't worried about losing their spots on the floor. But, honestly, I can't figure out why some of the young guys like McCall and Johnson aren't getting more time when the guys ahead of them aren't doing anything. I mean, if Piepoli can't shoot there's no reason to have him on the floor. Put in a younger more athletic guy who may be able to close down his man.

Speaking of young guys, Reid is looking promising although he seems to be falling in love with the 3. He has to use his athleticism to get to the rack and draw fouls.

Finally, the Cats play way too slowly. They don't have a team that's going to be able to be effective in the half court. Yet, they never push the ball and try to get an opportunity before the D is set. If you have a big guy like Qvale you might want to slow it down to get him on the block, but the Cats don't have a post. Push the ball as fast as you can after misses and makes. There's no reason to walk the ball up the court. Let the little point guards use their size to their advantage (keeping the dribble low to the floor), Let the guys like Allou, Johnson, and Howard use their abilities to crash the boards and let guys like Rush and Reid use their athleticism in the open court.

[Old Skool Cat]

Wow -- I think Tom hit the proverbial nail right on the head! And he ought to know - one of the best Bobcat ball players I ever had the pleasure to watch. But it's true -- just think about the thread earlier about Bobby Howard and his struggles this year. I can point to a number of players over the past years and even a few this year that are no better now than when they first arrived on campus. Bobby, Danny Piepoli, and Cody Anderson come to mind when I think of players who have not really developed as they should have.

So where then, does the burden lie? Is it with the coaches -- do they not work with the kids getting better and developing skills? Is it with the players -- are they just satisfied with their status as a DI college player and have no desire to put the work in necessary to improve? Or is it just the system?

[TomCat88]

Against my better judgement, I'm going to chime in hear and give my opinion. I think it comes down to 2 things, recruiting
and player development.

At this level you are not going to get star recruits, you are going to need to look for kids that have potential and then
you need to turn that potential into pure talent. Easy to say, hard to do. How many players in the past 20 years have
been significantly better as seniors than they were as freshman? I say not many.

Coaching today is mostly about team concepts, help defense, running offensive sets, transition defense and tons of
other team concepts. What I think coaches miss at this level is that they need to spend way more time developing
individual improvement like: how to get your own shot off, jumping boxes (individual athleticism), finishing in traffic,
ball handling (guards and big men). Go to a college practice and see how much time is spent working on team concepts
and how much is spent on individual improvement and you will see what I'm talking about.

Most coaches know the X's and O's well enough for a team to win if they have the talent. The trick is to get that talent.
Talent at the high levels is recuited while talent and the lower level schools is developed. Find a coach who can teach
players to get better individually and keep the motivation up over 4 years and you will find your recipe for success
at the Big Sky level.

Please continue to shirk your better judgement Tom. We all appreciate any commentary we can get from a former MSU great.

I agree with you. Seems like 30 years ago high school players were much better shooters -- not just outside, but inside as well -- dribblers and passers. It's rare to see someone with a truly technically sound jump shot. I went to a HS game to watch a guy everyone was raving about and he had a bad release. I asked a guy who truly has a great shot and he agreed.

They do a lot more acrobatic stuff today, but the simple fundamentals seem like they have faded. However, there are some successful players that stick with the basics. What do you think? Are the fundamentals going south or have they just changed and look different? Thanks in advance for any insight you can give us.