I agree completely with pretty much everything you just said. I would say it's about a toss up between UM and WSU, as the best basketball school in the BSC. i would be more than happy if MSU could even come close to what either one of them has accomplished in recent years.ilovethecats wrote:not unreasonable at all in my opinion. and we haven't even been close. in the last THIRTY years we've won the conference exactly twice, the latest being in '96.John K wrote: Agreed....we should consistently finish in the top 3 in the BSC during the regular season. We should make the tourney semi-finals almost every year, get into the championship game on a fairly regular basis, and win the title and go to the Big Dance every few years. I don't believe those are unreasonable expectations.we have made 2 championship games since then but lost them both, the most recent being to psu a few years ago. in this same amount of time, um has won the conference 7 times and lost in the championship in another. four of these have come since the last time the cats won it all.
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and weber....who considers itself a basketball school has been to the dance three times since the cats have. it's funny because um's dominance in football overshadows their hoops teams that are always very good. even now they still are struggling to get the fan support their team deserves, but it seems to be getting better and better each week. but it would be so easy for them to sit back and claim that they are a "football" school and not care what their hoops program does. instead, their basketball squad has quitely been very good, and very consistent, and represent very well. i mean hell....they have been to the dance four times in the last ten years.![]()
i compare us to um not just because they are our rivals, but because we are in the same state and it's easier to compare. if another schol like psu or nau was dominating, there would be different factors involved. but we are from the same state and our towns are similar. we recruit the same areas and deal with the same things when playing on the road. in both cases our school are really the only gigs in town when it comes to basketball....so one would think that recruiting to missoula would be very similar to recruiting to bozeman. however, for whatever reason, um has continued to outplay us head to head, out-recruit us, and overall are a much better program. no one like to say it but they are probably the best "basketball school" in the conference as well.
What killed Bobcat Basketball?
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Re: What killed Bobcat Basketball?
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Re: What killed Bobcat Basketball?
Another interesting/disturbing little bit of trivia for you....since MSU's last BSC title in 1996, no less than 7 different schools have won the BSC tourney. 6 of the other 8 current members have won it at least once, plus former BSC member CS-N. It took UNC only 5 years to accomplish what we've been unable to do in the previous 15 seasons.
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Re: What killed Bobcat Basketball?
see i just think it feels that way because um has had so much success in football that takes away from the other programs. meanwhile, other than a year or two here and there, weber hasn't had any sort of success in anything but basketball.John K wrote: I agree completely with pretty much everything you just said. I would say it's about a toss up between UM and WSU, as the best basketball school in the BSC. i would be more than happy if MSU could even come close to what either one of them has accomplished in recent years.
but um has won more championships overall. in the last 15 years it's 5-3 in um's favor for big sky championships. they've also been in more title games than weber. this is really our only barometer of success in our conference so i just don't see how people would give the edge to weber other than the fact that hoops is all they have. but i think that rings even more positive for um as you don't even notice how good their hoops teams are cause it's football, football, football.
i just don't know. my heart tells me that the griz aren't the cream of the crop in hoops in this league....but my head and the stats are telling me otherwise.
agree completely that i'd take the success of either in a second!
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Re: What killed Bobcat Basketball?
[quote="ilovethecats"][quote="BozCatFan"]My point is not that winning does not matter because it does. Its a magic bullet to a large extent, but since we have not had a sustainable program that finishes near the top of the conference every year MSU needs to look at something other than winning to rely on to draw fans.
Sure, Bozeman isn't Chicago...but that was one example of a team, pro or otherwise, that can draw a decent crowd even with a not so good team. Drawing 1,500 fans average for a MBB game in Bozeman when there isn't any major competition is absolutely embarrassing and pathetic.
The bottom line, IMO, is since they can't seem to win is to focus on making games an event. I am a basketball fan but my wife isn't. She won't go because it isn't fun for her because there isn't anything else going on. When she doesn't go I don't go. Neither do our four kids. I have several friends in that same situation. If they focused on making it an event and fun in everything they can control (timeouts, pregame, halftime, music, mascot, etc...) then my wife would be way more likely to go...and buy season tickets, and buy food, etc...
Long term, this is a serious problem. MSU isn't drawing kids to the game and they are the ones buying season tickets in the next 15 to 50 years. I grew up watching cat games with my family so I was hooked young. It will be far more difficult to get these kids to get involved when they are older since we didn't get them as kids.
Guys, it isn't rocket science. If I had the marketing solutions on how to make that happen I would be posting them here. I'm just pointing out that there is more to attendance than winning, a lot more.[/quote]
Apparently it is a little more than "ROCKET SCIENCE" if you can't come up with solutions, but want to criticize. The Ice Dog comparisons have been going on for a long time and they are pretty lame. How well are they drawing now? Bobcat Basketball's issues have VERY little to do with marketing and has to do with a product that has struggled to be relevant for over a decade. This is the same crap that was written 6 years ago regarding the regarding bobcat football...that tune sure has changed.
Sure, Bozeman isn't Chicago...but that was one example of a team, pro or otherwise, that can draw a decent crowd even with a not so good team. Drawing 1,500 fans average for a MBB game in Bozeman when there isn't any major competition is absolutely embarrassing and pathetic.
The bottom line, IMO, is since they can't seem to win is to focus on making games an event. I am a basketball fan but my wife isn't. She won't go because it isn't fun for her because there isn't anything else going on. When she doesn't go I don't go. Neither do our four kids. I have several friends in that same situation. If they focused on making it an event and fun in everything they can control (timeouts, pregame, halftime, music, mascot, etc...) then my wife would be way more likely to go...and buy season tickets, and buy food, etc...
Long term, this is a serious problem. MSU isn't drawing kids to the game and they are the ones buying season tickets in the next 15 to 50 years. I grew up watching cat games with my family so I was hooked young. It will be far more difficult to get these kids to get involved when they are older since we didn't get them as kids.
Guys, it isn't rocket science. If I had the marketing solutions on how to make that happen I would be posting them here. I'm just pointing out that there is more to attendance than winning, a lot more.[/quote]
Apparently it is a little more than "ROCKET SCIENCE" if you can't come up with solutions, but want to criticize. The Ice Dog comparisons have been going on for a long time and they are pretty lame. How well are they drawing now? Bobcat Basketball's issues have VERY little to do with marketing and has to do with a product that has struggled to be relevant for over a decade. This is the same crap that was written 6 years ago regarding the regarding bobcat football...that tune sure has changed.
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Re: What killed Bobcat Basketball?
Ice garden sold beer and there were fights. That was their marketing.
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Re: What killed Bobcat Basketball?
[quote="wbtfg"]Ice garden sold beer and there were fights. That was their marketing.[/quote]
Sure helps!
Sure helps!
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Re: What killed Bobcat Basketball?
Those games were a whole lot of fun, even before I was old enough to get away with drinking beer in public. I'm sure I could make a joke about fights, but it's probably too soon.wbtfg wrote:Ice garden sold beer and there were fights. That was their marketing.
Anyway, the Ice Dogs don't sell many tickets now because they play a conspicuously lower level of hockey and the venue isn't as good. The only "recent" change in the Brick Breeden Fieldhouse is they made everything blue, which ought not hurt ticket sales that much.
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Re: What killed Bobcat Basketball?
So you think the lack of competitive hockey played a roll in decreased ticket numbers?
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Re: What killed Bobcat Basketball?
Absolutely, but I also think the fact that they're not really even the same team (they play at a lower level of competition), the fact that they play at a worse venue, and the fact that they aren't marketed as heavily has more to do with it.TrueCat wrote:So you think the lack of competitive hockey played a roll in decreased ticket numbers?
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Re: What killed Bobcat Basketball?
Agreed. That is why the comparisons then and now are not accurate.
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Re: What killed Bobcat Basketball?
I would say the ice dogs marketing between 1997 to when the ice garden was shut down was far superior to what MSU has done in quite some time. Obviously playing at the fairgrounds where the venue is awful and there aren't many seats has changed their entire approach. I'm not sure even who owns the team, but when the Martels had it everything was first class.
My point isn't to come here and bitc* about the marketing. Its to perhaps drum up some ideas from those who post here and hopefully we can put something together that MSU will pick up on.
My point isn't to come here and bitc* about the marketing. Its to perhaps drum up some ideas from those who post here and hopefully we can put something together that MSU will pick up on.
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Re: What killed Bobcat Basketball?
I've been an off ice official since the Icedogs started. The level of hockey now, isn't even close to what it once was. There are a lot of people I talk to that don't even there is still an Icedog team.
I think if the coach would/could find a better group of players, interest would come back.
When the MSU club te plays, I never hear any mention of it, but those games get over 600-800 college kids there. Because is better hockey.
I think if the coach would/could find a better group of players, interest would come back.
When the MSU club te plays, I never hear any mention of it, but those games get over 600-800 college kids there. Because is better hockey.
Alcohol doesn't make you fat, it makes you lean.... on chairs, tables and random ugly people....
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Re: What killed Bobcat Basketball?
[quote="BozCatFan"]I would say the ice dogs marketing between 1997 to when the ice garden was shut down was far superior to what MSU has done in quite some time. Obviously playing at the fairgrounds where the venue is awful and there aren't many seats has changed their entire approach. I'm not sure even who owns the team, but when the Martels had it everything was first class.
My point isn't to come here and bitc* about the marketing. Its to perhaps drum up some ideas from those who post here and hopefully we can put something together that MSU will pick up on.[/quote]
And what would lead you to beleive that? MSU Athletics has numerous sports that they need to promote and creat awareness. They do not have the luxary of alcohol sales and the ability to focus on one sport.
Oh, and if you feel that the Ice Dogs marketing since 1997 has been superiour to MSU's you obviously ahve not been to a football game in the last 5 years (especially last year). I have attended Ice Dog games and MSU events and there is no comparison, promoting college athletics is nothing like promoting a minor league hockey team. Marketing is a constantly evolving art, but the bottom line is that if the product does not match the consumer's expectations or needs, no gimick or "timeout entertainment" will foster loyalty.
My point isn't to come here and bitc* about the marketing. Its to perhaps drum up some ideas from those who post here and hopefully we can put something together that MSU will pick up on.[/quote]
And what would lead you to beleive that? MSU Athletics has numerous sports that they need to promote and creat awareness. They do not have the luxary of alcohol sales and the ability to focus on one sport.
Oh, and if you feel that the Ice Dogs marketing since 1997 has been superiour to MSU's you obviously ahve not been to a football game in the last 5 years (especially last year). I have attended Ice Dog games and MSU events and there is no comparison, promoting college athletics is nothing like promoting a minor league hockey team. Marketing is a constantly evolving art, but the bottom line is that if the product does not match the consumer's expectations or needs, no gimick or "timeout entertainment" will foster loyalty.
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Re: What killed Bobcat Basketball?
You know, TrueCat, I respect your opinion. Have a good day and thanks for the entertaining and spirited argument.
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Re: What killed Bobcat Basketball?
Here's my proposal for next year's advertising campaign:


What's the difference between you and a mallard with a cold? One's a sick duck. I can't remember how it ends but your mother's a whore.
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Re: What killed Bobcat Basketball?
That seems to promising, like with the Titanic and the Hindenberg there was hope and something exciting to look forward to before they crashed. I think next years marketing should either be a ship that has already sunk and has coral growing on it or maybe everyone beating a dead horse. This one is beyond life support.
Randy B. - MSU '04 

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Re: What killed Bobcat Basketball?
Since we're playing a game of funny jpegs...


"What's our job? Gettin the offense the ball! How we gonna do it? By any means necessary!"
-Trent King, Playmakers
-Trent King, Playmakers
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Re: What killed Bobcat Basketball?
I am cry-laughing. That is so full of win.wbtfg wrote:My turn...

I think you don't get it. Sleeping in until 6 won't get many people very far in life, especially if they want to play on Sunday.
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Re: What killed Bobcat Basketball?
Absolutely brilliant. I spit water all over my keyboard reading that.ImagineSanta wrote:I am cry-laughing. That is so full of win.wbtfg wrote:My turn...

griz fans; keeping it classy and gracious in winning since ... well, never.