You can stop all the "We want Brad Huse to go" threads

[CelticCat]

Freaking Northern Colorado went dancing in a year where the coach made 85k, with a 25k bonus.

[kcatz]

Our women's coach makes more money than our men's coach because she deserves it. There is witnessed improvement in her teams from year to year and her teams are fun to watch.

[Potomac Griz]

In the 11-team Big Sky Conference, Montana State is better than seven teams in men's basketball and probably overall, along with UM, the strongest athletic department in the league. As an athletic director at a FCS/mid-major Division I school, what else do you want?

I'm guessing most Bobcat BB fans would like to finish in the top 250 RPI... that would be a good start.
Some may even like to see the Bobcat BB team not completely collapse in an epic ball of fire and fur starting Feb 1st every year (sometimes earlier).
Some may like to see players with potential stick around and actually finish as Bobcats instead of transferring away, or disappearing (like how things used to happen under Holst & Taylor for the Griz).
There may even be a few who would like to sniff the NCAA tournament from time to time.

I know I know...it's crazy talk! Bobcat BB fans should be happy as hell with a 317 RPI finish with a strength of schedule that wasn't the worst in the country (336 out of 347). They should throw their hands up in the air and cheer "WE AREN'T THE WORST!! YAAAAY!".

They should be overjoyed that their record under Huse against D1 opponents in the last 3 years is 32-52. In fact I'm sure many Cat fans enjoy...no..no... LOVE... the normal Mid/End of season collapse every year too. Who wouldn't love going 7-22 in D1 games after Feb 1st the past 3 years?

So yeah, I agree with you...what else do you fans want? Sheesh... I'd be overloaded with excitement over the prospect of another 10-18 year with a first round loss in the Big Sigh Tournament if I were you! It just doesn't get better than that!


Seriously though... your BB program apparently has migrated over to "DontGiveA$hitVille" in the eyes of your athletic department if they actually sign Huse to an extension... Oh trust me.. I know the signs of being moved to that barren wasteland... We've seen it over in Grizville too. We got lucky with a couple coaches though and seem to have dug our way out of it. Hope you guys do too. As long as we are stuck in this conference I'd love to see the Griz and the Cats at the top of the conference consistently in BB.

[BelgradeBobcat]

In the 11-team Big Sky Conference, Montana State is better than seven teams in men's basketball and probably overall, along with UM, the strongest athletic department in the league. As an athletic director at a FCS/mid-major Division I school, what else do you want?

I'm guessing most Bobcat BB fans would like to finish in the top 250 RPI... that would be a good start.
Some may even like to see the Bobcat BB team not completely collapse in an epic ball of fire and fur starting Feb 1st every year (sometimes earlier).
Some may like to see players with potential stick around and actually finish as Bobcats instead of transferring away, or disappearing (like how things used to happen under Holst & Taylor for the Griz).
There may even be a few who would like to sniff the NCAA tournament from time to time.

I know I know...it's crazy talk! Bobcat BB fans should be happy as hell with a 317 RPI finish with a strength of schedule that wasn't the worst in the country (336 out of 347). They should throw their hands up in the air and cheer "WE AREN'T THE WORST!! YAAAAY!".

They should be overjoyed that their record under Huse against D1 opponents in the last 3 years is 32-52. In fact I'm sure many Cat fans enjoy...no..no... LOVE... the normal Mid/End of season collapse every year too. Who wouldn't love going 7-22 in D1 games after Feb 1st the past 3 years?

So yeah, I agree with you...what else do you fans want? Sheesh... I'd be overloaded with excitement over the prospect of another 10-18 year with a first round loss in the Big Sigh Tournament if I were you! It just doesn't get better than that!


Seriously though... your BB program apparently has migrated over to "DontGiveA$hitVille" in the eyes of your athletic department if they actually sign Huse to an extension... Oh trust me.. I know the signs of being moved to that barren wasteland... We've seen it over in Grizville too. We got lucky with a couple coaches though and seem to have dug our way out of it. Hope you guys do too. As long as we are stuck in this conference I'd love to see the Griz and the Cats at the top of the conference consistently in BB.

Thank you. I couldn't have said it any better-sarcasm and all.

I guess I'm unreasonable, but I think we should do better.

[all sports fan]

I think you are mistaken when Danny left here I think it was reported that he prefers California

[ilovethecats]

In the 11-team Big Sky Conference, Montana State is better than seven teams in men's basketball and probably overall, along with UM, the strongest athletic department in the league. As an athletic director at a FCS/mid-major Division I school, what else do you want?

Oh, and I might add, how about not losing half of our returning players every year, so we're not having to recruit a whole new team every season? That would be a pleasant change. I have to say that I'm curious about your continued defense of Huse. Do you really believe the things that you write, or are you simply playing devil's advocate? I posted this in another thread, but I think it bears repeating...it's almost worse to be consistently mediocre, year after year after year, than it is to be truly terrible. Being truly terrible forces you to attempt to make positive changes. Being mediocre for an extended period of time lulls you into accepting the status quo.

i agree john. i too have been curious as to where colter is coming from in regards to our basketball program. i think he does an excellent job for us and unlike some i don't think the fact that he grew up a griz hinders his work in any way. that fact however does make his take on the cats even more confusing to me. he knows first hand what a successful program should look like and he knows first hand that fans do not tolerate crappy play from the major sports. right or wrong...people care far more about football and basketball than the other sports. can you guys imagine what would be going on at um if their football team had the exact amount of "success" as our basketball program has had over the last 10-15 years?! it would be crazy!

so my question again is why should the cat fanbase be accepting of mediocre to bad play when we all know for a fact there is NO CHANCE the um fanbase would? as wbtfg said...i don't think our expectations are too high. maybe host a conference tourney more than once every 10 years. maybe represent the conference in march madness more than every 20 years. is that really too much? should we REALLY be fine with crap season after crap season because we happen to be in the middle of a lousy conference? i just can't wrap my head around this. and it seems to me that a life-long griz fan who knows about fan expectations would understand more than anyone that watching crap performances year after year after year after year isn't fun and eventually the fans will be fed up. in missoula it takes about a season. in bozeman it's been a decade plus and yet we're still being told we should lower expectations?! no chance from me....

I'm not defending anyone and like I always say, I won't express MY opinion on the situation. I'm just saying what the athletic department's perspective is and playing devil's advocate to stimulate discussion. Mission accomplished.

The only thing worse that mediocrity is settling for it. I will whole-heartedly agree with that...

colter it was great meeting you last night. beers on me any time we meet again. still think your crazy thinking facilities make a program though....

[BLACKnBLUEnGOLD]

So, in summary, Peter Fields is afraid of his shadow, giving Bobcat fans six more years of losing?

That does make some sense. There's not an ounce of good sense anywhere in it, though.

[BozoneCat]

Colter, I think you're looking at it all wrong... any coach in the country would be ELATED to coach at MSU, there's simply no better job security anywhere else in the country! Just think, in a profession where most coaches are one or two losing seasons away from being shown the pink slip, you can pretty much guarantee your job will still be there no matter how many games you lose! That's gotta be worth a little up-front money, for the security down the line.

[defensivearts]

Mark Phelps, the men's basketball coach at Drake finished 77-86 over five years. And after five not-so-memorable seasons what did the institution do? They fired him! Doesn't the Drake AD know that you need a good 8-10 year run to make a judgement about a coach? And, heck, 77-86 ain't so bad. He was even within a game of .500 this year.

Now let's look at a University that handles things a little differently; Montana State University. It's current coach has a 7 year record of 93-117 and was 13-17 this past season. But MSU didn't do something rash like fire it's coach. They looked at a long term plan. Like a decade long.

To review, MSU basketball has not done so well the past seven years: MSU had nearly half it's team quit in 4 of the past 5 years; the team has folded miserably in the second half of the season in 5 of the past 6 years and has experienced a decline in attendance of 20%.

So if you are MSU, what do you do? You stay the course, of course! You give that coach one more year... or maybe 3.

It is this fan's opinion that MSU should be recognized nationally as a paragon of one very under-rated virtue: 'PATIENCE'. While most of these new-fangled NCAA programs are in a crazy rush for winning, money and fun, MSU shows restraint. Heck, it's not like the coach isn't trying. 5 of his top 6 players this past season were JC transfers.

Some might contend that all this mediocrity in the basketball program without making a coaching change signals apathy and weakness. I say it signals 'KINDNESS'- which is also a very over-looked virtue these days in NCAA sports. I think you would be very hard pressed to find a kinder institution than MSU. After 7 years our basketball coach is still here without ever winning or contending for a championship (Is second place one year contending?).

I urge my fellow Bobcat Basketball fans not to get caught up in the idea that 'We should be a winning program!', or 'UM does it, why can't we?' Or 'We used to win at basketball here, why not now?' That's your ego talkin'. Take solace in knowing that MSU is supportive of less than accomplished coaches.

Now, I know some would say we forced Earl Solomonson out early. And it's true. The guy only had 6 seasons. In another 2 or 3 maybe he would have been turning the corner... But that, my friends, was a mean-spirited, shoot-from the-hip sort of decision that we try not to make any more.

Be happy that MSU isn't last place Idaho State! Oh, that's right. They beat us 87-51 late in the season. Well, just be happy that we have adequate parking and a good pep band!

[Catfanatic84]

Ok....so we've got Coach Huse for at least another year.....what can we do as fans to help him succeed? Or are we just going to continue accept more mediocrity and thrown in the towel?

[allcat]

Ok....so we've got Coach Huse for at least another year.....what can we do as fans to help him succeed? Or are we just going to continue accept more mediocrity and thrown in the towel?

I think Fields at least threw in a washcloth.

[Lovethecats75]

Not only adequate parking, next year the south parking lot will be paved, It does not get any better than that. Now that should draw some more fans.

[defensivearts]

COLTER WROTE: "And until the facility is upgraded, MSU will not beat the two top dogs in the Big Sky recruits. Huse brings in most of the same "big time" recruits the Big Sky powers do. Guess what? They all choose to go elsewhere and I'd say the majority of that has to do with facilities. On signing day, Rob Ash told me kids these days are really simple: they want to play for a winning program and they want nice facilities. That's it. The latter usually proceeds the former. "

Really? You actually don't believe that it is impossible to have 'the lesser' program- in this case msu bball- eventually overtake 'the greater' program- in this case um/weber bball? In truth the belief that MSU bball can rise up and win the bsc is not for the pragmatic or the reasonable. It's a job for dreamer.

If athletic fortunes were as intractable as Colter indicates then msu football would still be a middle level Big Sky Conference program. It took Rick Ogle and the Quarterback Club to go out and find someone who believed the same crazy things they did. Mike Kramer thought it was possible that in spite of poorer facilities and far poorer tradition, especially of late, that MSU could somehow eventually beat um. How did he do it? He took a different point of view than than the rational one that was held by all but about 1000 die hard Cat fans. He went out and got players that um in most cases did not want. And little by little he found players (now, granted some of those players were a bit 'iffy' in the scholastic and social aspect) that could compete. And in just three years he beat the vaunted Griz- two years in a row! Along the way Kramer did a lot of things wrong. But the notion that MSU's basketball fortunes must forever play third place to UM and Weber is just BS.

As a side note, Coach Ash could not have pulled this off. And I adore Coach Ash but he is a program 'maintainor', not a'builder'. A builder is usually someone like Kramer who is a big talker, a great story teller who doesn't let the facts mess with his message and a great motivator. These types of coaches are forced to fashion a team by selling things that no one else can really see. Because they aren't there yet. In short, they need to better recruiters than the other guys.

Granted, now that the APR issues are so paramount this kind of salesman coach will have a harder time. And Peter Fields is very unlikely to hire this sort of salesman personality. But right now at MSU for men's basketball that's the only kind of coach who is going to turn things around.

[John K]

COLTER WROTE: "And until the facility is upgraded, MSU will not beat the two top dogs in the Big Sky recruits. Huse brings in most of the same "big time" recruits the Big Sky powers do. Guess what? They all choose to go elsewhere and I'd say the majority of that has to do with facilities. On signing day, Rob Ash told me kids these days are really simple: they want to play for a winning program and they want nice facilities. That's it. The latter usually proceeds the former. "

Really? You actually don't believe that it is impossible to have 'the lesser' program- in this case msu bball- eventually overtake 'the greater' program- in this case um/weber bball? In truth the belief that MSU bball can rise up and win the bsc is not for the pragmatic or the reasonable. It's a job for dreamer.

If athletic fortunes were as intractable as Colter indicates then msu football would still be a middle level Big Sky Conference program. It took Rick Ogle and the Quarterback Club to go out and find someone who believed the same crazy things they did. Mike Kramer thought it was possible that in spite of poorer facilities and far poorer tradition, especially of late, that MSU could somehow eventually beat um. How did he do it? He took a different point of view than than the rational one that was held by all but about 1000 die hard Cat fans. He went out and got players that um in most cases did not want. And little by little he found players (now, granted some of those players were a bit 'iffy' in the scholastic and social aspect) that could compete. And in just three years he beat the vaunted Griz- two years in a row! Along the way Kramer did a lot of things wrong. But the notion that MSU's basketball fortunes must forever play third place to UM and Weber is just BS.

As a side note, Coach Ash could not have pulled this off. And I adore Coach Ash but he is a program 'maintainor', not a'builder'. A builder is usually someone like Kramer who is a big talker, a great story teller who doesn't let the facts mess with his message and a great motivator. These types of coaches are forced to fashion a team by selling things that no one else can really see. Because they aren't there yet. In short, they need to better recruiters than the other guys.

Granted, now that the APR issues are so paramount this kind of salesman coach will have a harder time. And Peter Fields is very unlikely to hire this sort of salesman personality. But right now at MSU for men's basketball that's the only kind of coach who is going to turn things around.

That was very well stated, and is the most accurate assessment of the situation that I've read on this topic so far. Everything you wrote is spot on, and I could not agree more.

[gtapp]

There is no question that better facilities make it easier to recruit but just as great facilities cannot guarantee wins, outdated facilities does not guarantee losses. There have been many examples (including our own) where poor facilities has not prevented a school from having a winning team. Again, it is the cart and horse theory; Which comes first. When you start to win resources become available. If you take the "build it and they will come" approach and you are wrong good luck raising the money the next time around!

[CelticCat]

The fact is, Weber will always be Weber. They have the best facilities in the conference, and the best tradition, and the school is fully behind them.

I don't know whether UM made a concentrated effort to get to the level of Weber, or if they just got a great couple hires in a row and the administration ran with the success the coaches gave. I don't know. But they are building that tradition over there.

Meanwhile, at MSU...

I do know that MSU has had 2 coaches in what, the last 25 years? I'm sure I'm off a few years, I can't remember how long Durham was there. That is something a lot of schools would be jealous of, that we can retain that stability in the program. And we are rarely if ever truly awful. Except for our current coach can't maintain stability in his roster, and thus his results suffer.

I think I am done giving Huse chances. Every offseason I say to myself "If the whole team comes back, we could actually be pretty good" - well that's true, but it NEVER happens. We aren't even surprised one bit anymore when a player leaves the program.

A new coach every 2-3 years would be much more preferable than an entire new roster every year or two.

[BLACKnBLUEnGOLD]

Not only is there so much turnover, but the players who do stick around rarely get better. Remember how much raw talent Budnich had when he got to Bozeman? He could have been awesome. Instead, he's probably less effective than he was as a redshirt freshman. Who's fault is that? I don't know. Bobby Howard's raw numbers went up a lot from his freshman to senior years, but his per-minute averages saw only modest improvement. Ditto for Branden Johnson. Piepoli's numbers didn't even go up; he scored 7.5 ppg all three years, and he never added any additional skills like being a rebounder or a facilitator.

So few of Huse's players are four-year guys that I'm having trouble finding examples. But it seems like either Huse doesn't teach skills very well, or he's recruiting guys who don't have the drive to learn anything.

Erik Rush did get better, but he seems like the exception rather than the rule.

[CelticCat]

Not only is there so much turnover, but the players who do stick around rarely get better. Remember how much raw talent Budnich had when he got to Bozeman? He could have been awesome. Instead, he's probably less effective than he was as a redshirt freshman. Who's fault is that? I don't know. Bobby Howard's raw numbers went up a lot from his freshman to senior years, but his per-minute averages saw only modest improvement. Ditto for Branden Johnson. Piepoli's numbers didn't even go up; he scored 7.5 ppg all three years, and he never added any additional skills like being a rebounder or a facilitator.

So few of Huse's players are four-year guys that I'm having trouble finding examples. But it seems like either Huse doesn't teach skills very well, or he's recruiting guys who don't have the drive to learn anything.

Erik Rush did get better, but he seems like the exception rather than the rule.

Never really thought of this, but that is a good point. How many guys in football went from being average as frosh/sophs to all-conference by senior years? Quite a few examples.

Yes I know the roster is smaller for b-ball, but it has been a long time since we had a freshman or sophomore come in and just develop into a great player. But so few opportunities for them to do so, as they all seem to get out while the gettin's good. Even the JC guys don't really seem to improve year-to-year - Mbunga, Bynum, Allou, and Navarre are the ones who got better that come to mind.

[DicTater]

How can anyone look at this record and say, "Hey, this is the guy we need leading our program."? If you were looking for a new coach, would you hire this guy? If not, why is Huse getting a new contract?

2013: 13-17
2012: 12-17
2011: 13-18
2010: 15-14
2009: 14-17
2008: 15-15
2007: 11-19

Let's see, he's only won 15 games twice, the last time in 2009-2010. Over the last 3 years, he's won 13, 12, and 13. Not exactly an upward arc there. This isn't even mediocrity, it's failure. One "winning"(15-14) in 7 seasons. One .500 season. 5 losing seasons including the last 3 straight. The winning % for the last 3 years combined is 42%. The career winning % is 44%. Not only is this failure, it has actually gotten worse over the last 3 years compared to the first 4. There might be a reason to retain Huse if the program was showing some signs of improvement. It isn't, the numbers don't lie.

[John K]

Colter seems to believe that MSU's issues are largely institutional (coaches salaries, facilities, et al.), and that Huse has been doing as well as can be expected, given the cards that he's been dealt. How then do you explain the player turnover? He says that we're not able to recruit better players because of our facilities, but isn't it possible that it's actually for the same reason that so many players leave before completing their eligibility...that they just don't like Huse and/or his system?

How does he explain the annual February swoons? How does he explain Huse's inability to win a BSC tourney game, even when MSU has been the higher seeded team (although I believe that's only happened a couple of times under Huse, and that in itself tells you something about our futility)? He points to this season and says that finishing 4th in an 11 team league is pretty good, under the circumstances. But what about the seasons when MSU has backed into the tourney as the #6 seed in a nine team conference, after being near the top of the standings through the 1st half of BSC play?

And I also can't believe that our facilities are that terrible compared to most of the other BSC schools, or even compared to other low-major programs throughout the country. The Brick may not be Staples Center, but there's got to be a whole bunch of low-major schools that have worse facilities, many of whom have been more successful than MSU. How do our facilities compare to EWU, NAU, NCU, and PSU? All of those schools (in addition to UM and WSU of course) have won BSC titles since MSU last won it in 1996