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Evil_Empire wrote:
The only thing I don't understand in this thread is when Tom88 said he doesn't think there is a noticable talent difference between Weber and UM versus MSU. I personally do not think there is that big of a gap between Huse and Tinkle and Raye. I think the talent gap between players like Cherry, Lillard, Jamar, and Bamforth versus players that MSU has is much greater.
I've only seen UM play MSU and Weber, so maybe I'm not the best judge. I think MSU looked as talented in those games, but that's a small sample. I do have about 40 ski days in this season, so maybe someone will give my opinion some respect in that category.
MSU - 16 team National Champions (most recent 2024); 57 individual National Champions (most recent 2023). toMStUber
In the hypothetical scenario of Lillard playing for MSU I wondered/wrote would Lillard be forced to watch Hot Rod pound the ball....
Black & Blue commented that they are both point guards and they would not be on the court together. Well, in my view, Huse's man-crush on Singleton is so heavy that he would have him playing the point and would have Lillard playing shooting guard with Moon on the bench.
Huse's reliance on a 5'9", not very athletic, pit bull of a point guard is emblematic of his deepest flaws as a coach. He over values Singleton because he over values control. Rod is Huse's absolute mode of control on the court. He does exactly what Huse wants. Rod is a super tough competitor. Unfortunately, he commits way too many turn overs, is not a good shooter, and is a defensive liability. But, in spite of oft poor production Huse keeps him in the game. Because Huse values control and toughness over all else, even production. That value system is laudable. It just has not produced much success. The joy of playing the game seems to be drained from every one of Huse's squads. By season's end they plod with all the verve of indentured servants. Part of our late season collapses are the result of players simply being ground down into joyless moods in this drudgery-based system. As much as this style is little fun to watch, it's excruciating to play, especially when you have been running the court like a race horse for most of your career.
Regarding 'talent'... MSU has an athletic group that passes the eye ball test. However, MSU doesn't have near the 'basketball players' that UM has. Cherry is a far more skilled player than any one MSU has, as is Jamar. And then you add a skilled, very un-flashy Mathais Ward at 6'11 and a very skilled 7'0" Selvig and you simply have a far better group of basketball players. How does MSU stack up against Weber? I think if it were a track meet, MSU's b-ball players might win. But, again, they have far more skilled 'basketball players' than MSU.
Compounding MSU's lack of skill is the very deliberate style of play that Huse employs. As someone else mentioned, UM plays the same style but they have far more fitting personnel to execute that scheme.
I don't think Singleton's as terrible as you make him out to be. I wouldn't call him a liability on defense. His height limits his ability to contest shots, but he's also very disruptive and tends to cause a lot of turnovers. He usually leads the team in turnovers, but the starting point guard usually leads the team in turnovers. His assist/TO ratio is middle of the pack in the Big Sky, and I would say that overall, he's about a league average PG.
I don't think Huse is dumb, either. If he got a player with Lilliard's abilities, he wouldn't take the ball out of his hands.
"What's our job? Gettin the offense the ball! How we gonna do it? By any means necessary!"
BLACKnBLUEnGOLD wrote:I don't think Singleton's as terrible as you make him out to be. I wouldn't call him a liability on defense. His height limits his ability to contest shots, but he's also very disruptive and tends to cause a lot of turnovers. He usually leads the team in turnovers, but the starting point guard usually leads the team in turnovers. His assist/TO ratio is middle of the pack in the Big Sky, and I would say that overall, he's about a league average PG.
i agree. singleton has certainly had his moments that made us want to pull our hair out but overall, he's been pretty reliable. it's just one of those things where the teams overall performance often skews our views on everything. rod's assist to turnover ratio is actually close to the top 5 in the league, and better than um's stud will cherry who turns the ball over quite a bit more than rod. of course cherry is a better overall player...but it just puts rod's turnovers in perspective. and if he had any type of shooting threat whatsoever on this team, he'd likely have even more assists than he already does. it's not that the kid doesn't find the open guy....it's that when he does the shot is usually a miss.
i know people are excited about dison. i am too. and personally, i'd love to get a big point guard that doesn't appear to be a liability around the basket. however, this season, on this team, rod has to be near the bottom of the list in regards to our biggest problems. just my opinion of course.
BLACKnBLUEnGOLD wrote:I don't think Singleton's as terrible as you make him out to be. I wouldn't call him a liability on defense. His height limits his ability to contest shots, but he's also very disruptive and tends to cause a lot of turnovers. He usually leads the team in turnovers, but the starting point guard usually leads the team in turnovers. His assist/TO ratio is middle of the pack in the Big Sky, and I would say that overall, he's about a league average PG.
i agree. singleton has certainly had his moments that made us want to pull our hair out but overall, he's been pretty reliable. it's just one of those things where the teams overall performance often skews our views on everything. rod's assist to turnover ratio is actually close to the top 5 in the league, and better than um's stud will cherry who turns the ball over quite a bit more than rod. of course cherry is a better overall player...but it just puts rod's turnovers in perspective. and if he had any type of shooting threat whatsoever on this team, he'd likely have even more assists than he already does. it's not that the kid doesn't find the open guy....it's that when he does the shot is usually a miss.
i know people are excited about dison. i am too. and personally, i'd love to get a big point guard that doesn't appear to be a liability around the basket. however, this season, on this team, rod has to be near the bottom of the list in regards to our biggest problems. just my opinion of course.
give 'em hell tonight cats!!!
The top spots are generally all point guards, though. Rod's about average Big Sky point guards.
"What's our job? Gettin the offense the ball! How we gonna do it? By any means necessary!"
BLACKnBLUEnGOLD wrote:I don't think Singleton's as terrible as you make him out to be. I wouldn't call him a liability on defense. His height limits his ability to contest shots, but he's also very disruptive and tends to cause a lot of turnovers. He usually leads the team in turnovers, but the starting point guard usually leads the team in turnovers. His assist/TO ratio is middle of the pack in the Big Sky, and I would say that overall, he's about a league average PG.
i agree. singleton has certainly had his moments that made us want to pull our hair out but overall, he's been pretty reliable. it's just one of those things where the teams overall performance often skews our views on everything. rod's assist to turnover ratio is actually close to the top 5 in the league, and better than um's stud will cherry who turns the ball over quite a bit more than rod. of course cherry is a better overall player...but it just puts rod's turnovers in perspective. and if he had any type of shooting threat whatsoever on this team, he'd likely have even more assists than he already does. it's not that the kid doesn't find the open guy....it's that when he does the shot is usually a miss.
i know people are excited about dison. i am too. and personally, i'd love to get a big point guard that doesn't appear to be a liability around the basket. however, this season, on this team, rod has to be near the bottom of the list in regards to our biggest problems. just my opinion of course.
give 'em hell tonight cats!!!
The top spots are generally all point guards, though. Rod's about average Big Sky point guards.
well.....ya. i understand that. even if it was all guards, that is still almost 20 guys to consider. i believe rod is 6th, and he's in front of a stud like will cherry. i agree he is an average guard. same with just about every player we put on the floor unfortuately. i was just pointing out that he's far from a turnover machine. but yes, turnover to ratio is almost always guard-oriented and overall rod is an average big sky guard. but on a team that is below average.....an average guard isn't a big concern.
defensivearts wrote:In the hypothetical scenario of Lillard playing for MSU I wondered/wrote would Lillard be forced to watch Hot Rod pound the ball....
Black & Blue commented that they are both point guards and they would not be on the court together. Well, in my view, Huse's man-crush on Singleton is so heavy that he would have him playing the point and would have Lillard playing shooting guard with Moon on the bench.
Huse's reliance on a 5'9", not very athletic, pit bull of a point guard is emblematic of his deepest flaws as a coach. He over values Singleton because he over values control. Rod is Huse's absolute mode of control on the court. He does exactly what Huse wants. Rod is a super tough competitor. Unfortunately, he commits way too many turn overs, is not a good shooter, and is a defensive liability. But, in spite of oft poor production Huse keeps him in the game. Because Huse values control and toughness over all else, even production. That value system is laudable. It just has not produced much success. The joy of playing the game seems to be drained from every one of Huse's squads. By season's end they plod with all the verve of indentured servants. Part of our late season collapses are the result of players simply being ground down into joyless moods in this drudgery-based system. As much as this style is little fun to watch, it's excruciating to play, especially when you have been running the court like a race horse for most of your career.
Regarding 'talent'... MSU has an athletic group that passes the eye ball test. However, MSU doesn't have near the 'basketball players' that UM has. Cherry is a far more skilled player than any one MSU has, as is Jamar. And then you add a skilled, very un-flashy Mathais Ward at 6'11 and a very skilled 7'0" Selvig and you simply have a far better group of basketball players. How does MSU stack up against Weber? I think if it were a track meet, MSU's b-ball players might win. But, again, they have far more skilled 'basketball players' than MSU.
Compounding MSU's lack of skill is the very deliberate style of play that Huse employs. As someone else mentioned, UM plays the same style but they have far more fitting personnel to execute that scheme.
