The Bobcat Nation

Without having seen an MSU MBB game in at least 10 years, I am asking simply based on tendencies I have observed off of observations made at a distance.

My question is, "are we going into our seemingly predictable 2nd half of the season slide that will leave us once again hoping for a 50-50 season and a long shot at a BSC playoff?"

Just seems like the pattern has been set for the past 4-5 years that we are not able to do anything other than lose in the 2nd half of the season. Why is that?

Can't we compete in the 2nd half like the first half of the season? Yes, I know adjustments... but hey all things being equal don't all teams face the same issues of adjustments? Why do we lose?

I spoke with a couple of the Bobcats, who shall remain nameless, after the game.....

To paraphrase they both basically said "It's hard to want to play for coach that you fear rather than respect."

Lack of leadership. Again, he left his team and coaches well behind him when leaving the arena.

The "February swoon" is brought up in a lot of threads on the basketball board. I use it to mark the season-like migrating geese, fall colors, or siting my first robin.

BearCat wrote:
To paraphrase they both basically said "It's hard to want to play for coach that you fear rather than respect."

IF a current player did really say that, he needs to be reminded that this is D1 basketball. I've been to lots if Brad Hide run practices and he's definitely hard in the guys, he's nowhere close to what a lot of highly successful d1 coaches are.

Also, remember one if the biggest complaints about Mick Durham was how he wasn't tough enough

Head coaches aren't your buddies. That's what assistants and teammates are for.

GrizinWashington wrote:Head coaches aren't your buddies. That's what assistants and teammates are for.

Yes indeed. Huse is cut from the same cloth as Larry k. They have very similar head coaching styles.

Looking at MSU's record in conference games in December/January vs. Feb/March since Huse took over is pretty striking:

2007: 4-4 in Dec/Jan, 4-5 in Feb/March (loss @PSU BSC Tournament 1st round)
2008: 5-3 in Dec/Jan, 2-7 in Feb/March (loss @WSU BSC Tournament 1st round)
2009: 4-5 in Dec/Jan, 3-7 in Feb/March (wins @UM, @WSU, loss to PSU in BSC Tournament Final)
2010: 6-4 in Dec/Jan, 4-3 in Feb/March (loss vs PSU BSC Tournament 1st round)
2011: 5-4 in Dec/Jan, 2-6 in Feb/March (loss @ NAU BSC Tournament 1st round)
2012: 6-3 in Dec/Jan, 0-2 in Feb/March

Combined records 30-23 (.566 win %) in December & January, 15-30 (.333 win %) in February & March. Unless they win out this year, the February/March win percentage will be lower than the December/January win percentage in all of Huse's six seasons. The numbers do not lie - MSU is simply a terrible second half team, has been a terrible second half team for a long time, and needs to figure out what to do about it soon before yet another season ends in futility.

MSU01 wrote:Looking at MSU's record in conference games in December/January vs. Feb/March since Huse took over is pretty striking:

2007: 4-4 in Dec/Jan, 4-5 in Feb/March (loss @PSU BSC Tournament 1st round)
2008: 5-3 in Dec/Jan, 2-7 in Feb/March (loss @WSU BSC Tournament 1st round)
2009: 4-5 in Dec/Jan, 3-7 in Feb/March (wins @UM, @WSU, loss to PSU in BSC Tournament Final)
2010: 6-4 in Dec/Jan, 4-3 in Feb/March (loss vs PSU BSC Tournament 1st round)
2011: 5-4 in Dec/Jan, 2-6 in Feb/March (loss @ NAU BSC Tournament 1st round)
2012: 6-3 in Dec/Jan, 0-2 in Feb/March

Combined records 30-23 (.566 win %) in December & January, 15-30 (.333 win %) in February & March. Unless they win out this year, the February/March win percentage will be lower than the December/January win percentage in all of Huse's six seasons. The numbers do not lie - MSU is simply a terrible second half team, has been a terrible second half team for a long time, and needs to figure out what to do about it soon before yet another season ends in futility.

That pretty much tells the whole story the past few years. It seems to me we also had some slides with Durham?

WeedKillinCat wrote: half team for a long time, and needs to figure out what to do about it soon before yet another season ends in futility.

That pretty much tells the whole story the past few years. It seems to me we also had some slides with Durham?[/quote]

The trend definitely continues back to Durham. The last time MSU had a better record in February & March than December & January was in 2002-2003, when they went 2-4 in January (.333 win %) and 3-5 in February & March (.375). In 2003-2004, they went 3-4 in both January and Feb/March. Both years ended in missing the Big Sky Tournament.

catsrback76 wrote:My question is, "are we going into our seemingly predictable 2nd half of the season slide that will leave us once again hoping for a 50-50 season and a long shot at a BSC playoff?"

Just seems like the pattern has been set for the past 4-5 years that we are not able to do anything other than lose in the 2nd half of the season. Why is that?

The past 4-5 years -- what are you kidding me? The bobcat's second half slides goes back much longer than that. When Huse was hired 6 seasons ago, fans on this board were saying/hoping that Huse would be the answer to the bobcat's late season collapses. As far back as the mid '90's the bobcats were already known for how they folded down the stretch and it has amazed me how consistently it has occurred almost every year since then. It is referred to by several different names: the February Funk, the 2nd half swoon, ABC (ie Annual Bobcat Collapse), but it is a well known phenomenon around the league. EVERYBODY in the Big Sky knows that the bobcats tank the second half of the season. It's MSU's trademark. Right now the coach at PSU is kicking himself, "Dang, we played the bobcats just before their 2nd half swoon." Meanwhile coaches at N. Colorado and Sacramento are thinking we are going to catch the bobcats now that they've gone into ABC. Heck even the teams coming into the league next year know about the famous bobcat second half swoon.

Every year, potential MSU recruits hear about the famous bobcat 2nd half swoon. Other coaches talk about it in the recruiting battles; "MSU? You don't want go there, they always collapse in the 2nd half of the season. Happens every year. After all, you DO want to go to the NCAA tourney don't you?"

No sir, you can't create something as famous as the bobcat 2nd half swoon in a mere 4-5 years. It takes decades to build a reputation like that. But, to answer your question -- yes you are. But then you already knew that -- didn't you?

It seems like the first step to fixing it would be to recruit talented players who are confident that they can reverse the trend, right? How hard could that really be, given the sizable egos many basketball players have?

twentythreeOh4 wrote:

catsrback76 wrote:My question is, "are we going into our seemingly predictable 2nd half of the season slide that will leave us once again hoping for a 50-50 season and a long shot at a BSC playoff?"

Just seems like the pattern has been set for the past 4-5 years that we are not able to do anything other than lose in the 2nd half of the season. Why is that?

The past 4-5 years -- what are you kidding me? The bobcat's second half slides goes back much longer than that. When Huse was hired 6 seasons ago, fans on this board were saying/hoping that Huse would be the answer to the bobcat's late season collapses. As far back as the mid '90's the bobcats were already known for how they folded down the stretch and it has amazed me how consistently it has occurred almost every year since then. It is referred to by several different names: the February Funk, the 2nd half swoon, ABC (ie Annual Bobcat Collapse), but it is a well known phenomenon around the league. EVERYBODY in the Big Sky knows that the bobcats tank the second half of the season. It's MSU's trademark. Right now the coach at PSU is kicking himself, "Dang, we played the bobcats just before their 2nd half swoon." Meanwhile coaches at N. Colorado and Sacramento are thinking we are going to catch the bobcats now that they've gone into ABC. Heck even the teams coming into the league next year know about the famous bobcat second half swoon.

Every year, potential MSU recruits hear about the famous bobcat 2nd half swoon. Other coaches talk about it in the recruiting battles; "MSU? You don't want go there, they always collapse in the 2nd half of the season. Happens every year. After all, you DO want to go to the NCAA tourney don't you?"

No sir, you can't create something as famous as the bobcat 2nd half swoon in a mere 4-5 years. It takes decades to build a reputation like that. But, to answer your question -- yes you are. But then you already knew that -- didn't you?

Again, not having seen a game in 10 years it is hard for me to comment on what I "see", other than the fact that this trend is too familiar for too long. I am not sure what the problem is and why we can't seem to solve it. Is it the case that other teams do better in the 2nd half of the season than the first? We seem to peak in week 4 and bump along to the end. To me that makes me want to look for coaching tendencies or lack thereof rather than players.

Players do have to execute on the floor, so yes there are issues there. But the bigger question is, how can they execute well in weeks 1-6 and just seem gutted weeks 7-12. Fear of coach, lack of adjustments, all can play a part, but is that it?

Outstanding players make outstanding coaches.....usually. I knew this was going to be a tough year for us. My goodness we lost just about the entire starting lineup from last year's team, which was not too good. Frankly, I'm surprised that the Cats have competed as well as they have given all of the new faces.

But once again, I hate the "quick fixes" with JC players. I would much rather build a strong squad by recruiting good players out of high school, as Coach Binford seems to be doing with the Lady Cats.

You know, Coach Huse was on Tinkle's staff for what, three years? He should know something about recruiting. But all I know is this. The last two years that I have watched the Griz vs. the Cats, the talent gap has been tremendous. Frankly, I thought we overachieved to keep the game as close as we did. I attribute most of that to the fact that Cherry was in foul trouble almost the entire game and played for only 8 or 9 minutes. Just wait until the two teams play in Missoula. If we stay withing 30 points, I'll eat some crow. However, Tinkle likes Huse, so I doubt he would run the score up on him.

The bottom line is recruiting. My point is, ever been to Greely, CO?? If they could win a championship last year, can't we build a good team here?

Does anyone know how our recruiting has gone this year? I saw the announcement about the 6'8" kid out of, is it Billings?? I'm not ready to throw Huse under the bus yet, but we need to get some talent in here.
It is really frustrating to say the least.

aucat wrote:Outstanding players make outstanding coaches.....usually. I knew this was going to be a tough year for us. My goodness we lost just about the entire starting lineup from last year's team, which was not too good. Frankly, I'm surprised that the Cats have competed as well as they have given all of the new faces.

But once again, I hate the "quick fixes" with JC players. I would much rather build a strong squad by recruiting good players out of high school, as Coach Binford seems to be doing with the Lady Cats.

You know, Coach Huse was on Tinkle's staff for what, three years? He should know something about recruiting. But all I know is this. The last two years that I have watched the Griz vs. the Cats, the talent gap has been tremendous. Frankly, I thought we overachieved to keep the game as close as we did. I attribute most of that to the fact that Cherry was in foul trouble almost the entire game and played for only 8 or 9 minutes. Just wait until the two teams play in Missoula. If we stay withing 30 points, I'll eat some crow. However, Tinkle likes Huse, so I doubt he would run the score up on him.

The bottom line is recruiting. My point is, ever been to Greely, CO?? If they could win a championship last year, can't we build a good team here?

Does anyone know how our recruiting has gone this year? I saw the announcement about the 6'8" kid out of, is it Billings?? I'm not ready to throw Huse under the bus yet, but we need to get some talent in here.
It is really frustrating to say the least.

Actually, both Huse and Tinkle were assistants under Krysko at UM. When Krysko went to the Bucks, Huse was hired at MSU the same year that Tinkle was elevated to be the head coach at UM. But Huse never coached under Tinkle in Missoula.

John K wrote:

aucat wrote:Outstanding players make outstanding coaches.....usually. I knew this was going to be a tough year for us. My goodness we lost just about the entire starting lineup from last year's team, which was not too good. Frankly, I'm surprised that the Cats have competed as well as they have given all of the new faces.

But once again, I hate the "quick fixes" with JC players. I would much rather build a strong squad by recruiting good players out of high school, as Coach Binford seems to be doing with the Lady Cats.

You know, Coach Huse was on Tinkle's staff for what, three years? He should know something about recruiting. But all I know is this. The last two years that I have watched the Griz vs. the Cats, the talent gap has been tremendous. Frankly, I thought we overachieved to keep the game as close as we did. I attribute most of that to the fact that Cherry was in foul trouble almost the entire game and played for only 8 or 9 minutes. Just wait until the two teams play in Missoula. If we stay withing 30 points, I'll eat some crow. However, Tinkle likes Huse, so I doubt he would run the score up on him.

The bottom line is recruiting. My point is, ever been to Greely, CO?? If they could win a championship last year, can't we build a good team here?

Does anyone know how our recruiting has gone this year? I saw the announcement about the 6'8" kid out of, is it Billings?? I'm not ready to throw Huse under the bus yet, but we need to get some talent in here.
It is really frustrating to say the least.

Actually, both Huse and Tinkle were assistants under Krysko at UM. When Krysko went to the Bucks, Huse was hired at MSU the same year that Tinkle was elevated to be the head coach at UM. But Huse never coached under Tinkle in Missoula.

Yes, that's how I remember it coming down.

So, the question is, if we made a coaching change from Durham to Huse because of Durhams second half slides in the last part of his coaching career at MSU, how long before a similar thing happens to Huse? Is this Huse's last year IF things don't turn around?

catsrback76 wrote:

John K wrote:

aucat wrote:Outstanding players make outstanding coaches.....usually. I knew this was going to be a tough year for us. My goodness we lost just about the entire starting lineup from last year's team, which was not too good. Frankly, I'm surprised that the Cats have competed as well as they have given all of the new faces.

But once again, I hate the "quick fixes" with JC players. I would much rather build a strong squad by recruiting good players out of high school, as Coach Binford seems to be doing with the Lady Cats.

You know, Coach Huse was on Tinkle's staff for what, three years? He should know something about recruiting. But all I know is this. The last two years that I have watched the Griz vs. the Cats, the talent gap has been tremendous. Frankly, I thought we overachieved to keep the game as close as we did. I attribute most of that to the fact that Cherry was in foul trouble almost the entire game and played for only 8 or 9 minutes. Just wait until the two teams play in Missoula. If we stay withing 30 points, I'll eat some crow. However, Tinkle likes Huse, so I doubt he would run the score up on him.

The bottom line is recruiting. My point is, ever been to Greely, CO?? If they could win a championship last year, can't we build a good team here?

Does anyone know how our recruiting has gone this year? I saw the announcement about the 6'8" kid out of, is it Billings?? I'm not ready to throw Huse under the bus yet, but we need to get some talent in here.
It is really frustrating to say the least.

Actually, both Huse and Tinkle were assistants under Krysko at UM. When Krysko went to the Bucks, Huse was hired at MSU the same year that Tinkle was elevated to be the head coach at UM. But Huse never coached under Tinkle in Missoula.

Yes, that's how I remember it coming down.

So, the question is, if we made a coaching change from Durham to Huse because of Durhams second half slides in the last part of his coaching career at MSU, how long before a similar thing happens to Huse? Is this Huse's last year IF things don't turn around?

The ironic thing about how it all went down was that in Grizville, the consensus was that the Cats got the better coach and Tinkle was only hired because he was part of "the family".

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GRIZFNZ wrote:

catsrback76 wrote:

John K wrote:

aucat wrote:Outstanding players make outstanding coaches.....usually. I knew this was going to be a tough year for us. My goodness we lost just about the entire starting lineup from last year's team, which was not too good. Frankly, I'm surprised that the Cats have competed as well as they have given all of the new faces.

But once again, I hate the "quick fixes" with JC players. I would much rather build a strong squad by recruiting good players out of high school, as Coach Binford seems to be doing with the Lady Cats.

You know, Coach Huse was on Tinkle's staff for what, three years? He should know something about recruiting. But all I know is this. The last two years that I have watched the Griz vs. the Cats, the talent gap has been tremendous. Frankly, I thought we overachieved to keep the game as close as we did. I attribute most of that to the fact that Cherry was in foul trouble almost the entire game and played for only 8 or 9 minutes. Just wait until the two teams play in Missoula. If we stay withing 30 points, I'll eat some crow. However, Tinkle likes Huse, so I doubt he would run the score up on him.

The bottom line is recruiting. My point is, ever been to Greely, CO?? If they could win a championship last year, can't we build a good team here?

Does anyone know how our recruiting has gone this year? I saw the announcement about the 6'8" kid out of, is it Billings?? I'm not ready to throw Huse under the bus yet, but we need to get some talent in here.
It is really frustrating to say the least.

Actually, both Huse and Tinkle were assistants under Krysko at UM. When Krysko went to the Bucks, Huse was hired at MSU the same year that Tinkle was elevated to be the head coach at UM. But Huse never coached under Tinkle in Missoula.

Yes, that's how I remember it coming down.

So, the question is, if we made a coaching change from Durham to Huse because of Durhams second half slides in the last part of his coaching career at MSU, how long before a similar thing happens to Huse? Is this Huse's last year IF things don't turn around?

The ironic thing about how it all went down was that in Grizville, the consensus was that the Cats got the better coach and Tinkle was only hired because he was part of "the family".

Sent from my ADR6400L using Tapatalk

Yes, that's true. I remember Cat and Griz fans alike saying that Huse was a great hire for MSU, and that he was a far better coach than Tinkle. As to his job security, unfortunately I'm afraid that he'e done just well enough that Fields will be hesitant to pull the trigger and make a change. In recent years, MSU has shown great reluctance to fire coaches, unless their teams were at the very bottom of the conference (VB) or there were off the court/field issues (FB/WBB). I think as long as we keep stumbling along as a 5th/6th place BSC team, and if there are no off court issues, that Huse will be the coach as long as he wants the job. I mean we kept Mick for about 15-16 years, and other than one brief run from 1996-1998 when we were pretty good, his results were not much different than what we've seen under Huse.

At the time, I think that Huse was by far the better head coach. He's had success as a head man in the past, and was prepared to take over the MSU job. That said, I think Tinkle has always been a better recruiter and as a credit to him, I think he's really evolved as a head coach.

As for whether or not Brad is on the hot seat, I have no idea, but I think this last recruiting class with numerous JC transfers demonstrated some of the same desparation that Durham showed in his final few years when he started bringing in mostly JC guys.

That said, it appears we're looking mostly at High School recruits during this recruiting season....

I tend to agree with WBT. I think you guys are selling Huse short on his coaching abilities. Frankly, I think the general perception is that Huse has gotten far more out of his teams than perhaps he should. The problem is, his teams haven't been very good. There just isn't enough talent to compete with the top BSC teams. I really think in most years, he's squeezed out all he could. Now, of course, the other side of that coin is that it might very well highlight Huse's primary weakness, which seems to be his inability to recruit the type of players to compete with the Webers, the Montanas, etc.

As an aside, I thought both Huse and Tinkle would be very successful when they were hired, and I was 100% in favor of Tinks for the head job at UM.

GrizinWashington wrote:I tend to agree with WBT. I think you guys are selling Huse short on his coaching abilities. Frankly, I think the general perception is that Huse has gotten far more out of his teams than perhaps he should. The problem is, his teams haven't been very good. There just isn't enough talent to compete with the top BSC teams. I really think in most years, he's squeezed out all he could. Now, of course, the other side of that coin is that it might very well highlight Huse's primary weakness, which seems to be his inability to recruit the type of players to compete with the Webers, the Montanas, etc.

As an aside, I thought both Huse and Tinkle would be very successful when they were hired, and I was 100% in favor of Tinks for the head job at UM.

It's basketball. The best recruiter will beat the best coach almost every time.