19 Years since the Big Sky won a game in the NCAAs

[aucat]

Last night I watched 11 seed Drake take down 6 seed Missouri from the "mighty" (at least in the eyes of the media) SEC. I had to wonder, how can a mid major like Drake, whose football team is a joke compared to Montana State, get it done yet the Big Sky can't come close? Our Big Sky teams beat FBS teams in football. We beat major conference teams during the regular season in basketball (the NAU women just whipped Arizona for the second time this year.) But you would think the Big Sky could produce a team capable of winning a game in the NCAAs once every 20 years.

[MSU01]

The Big Sky absolutely has produced teams capable of winning an NCAA game in the last 20 years, but to make them happen more often the Big Sky as a whole needs to be stronger so that its champions can consistently receive higher seeds and therefore weaker first round opponents. When the MVC (rated #9 out of 31 conferences) champion gets an 11 seed and gets to play Missouri and the Big Sky (#25 out of 31) champion gets a 14 seed and has to play Wisconsin, it's no surprise which of those two teams pulled the upset and which one didn't even though both of the lower seeded teams played well. Since UM won in 2006 as a #12 seed the highest seed any Big Sky teams have earned is #13 (PSU in 2009, UM in 2012 & 2013, EWU in 2015). To get more NCAA wins the conference needs to improve to the point that Big Sky teams are consistently in the conversation to be on the 11/12 seeding lines from which upsets are a lot more likely to happen.

[aucat]

I guess the more appropriate question is what is the problem with the big sky conference in basketball? For example, the SDSU women are a number 10 seed.

[MSU01]

I guess the more appropriate question is what is the problem with the big sky conference in basketball? For example, the SDSU women are a number 10 seed.

In terms of the overall strength of the conference for women's basketball I don't think there is a problem, as the Summit League was rated the #14 conference this year and the Big Sky was #15. In the Big Sky vs Summit League challenge the Summit women's teams went 10-8 against the Big Sky but many of those games were very competitive such as MSU's overtime loss at ORU. You specifically point out SDSU and I think Coach Binford could be close to building the MSU program to that level. There are some similarities there, namely that Binford has been at MSU for 20 years and SDSU's coach has been there for 25. SDSU's entire roster is from South Dakota, Minnesota, Wisconsin, and Iowa so they're definitely taking advantage of recruiting talented players in their local area. Overall strength of the conference is much more of a problem for Big Sky men's basketball than it is for the women.

[Colter_Nuanez]

Part of the reason schools like Drake are great in basketball is BECAUSE their football team sucks. They do not spend money investing in chasing national championships. They are fine to play in a non-scholarship league and just try to win the Pioneer League. They don't need to make a ton of revenue off a big-time football experience to support athletics. They pour money into basketball.

Drake head coach Ben McCollum, who was heavily in the mix before MSU hired Danny Sprinkle had a base salary of $275,000 at Northwest Missouri State when he was being courted by MSU. His salary is not public but many reports have it at more than $600,000.

The formula for being great in men's college basketball stems almost exclusively from resources and money. The SEC has become the best conference in the country because of football money. Big Ten and Big XII are right there.

The other power house leagues/programs are almost all schools who don't prioritize or don't even offer football. Think Gonzaga, Creighton, Marquette, Saint Mary's, Xavier and now new upstarts like High Point and Grand Canyon, who are already getting better seeds than the Big Sky champs despite being new on the scene.

As long as the Big Sky Conference and the Montana schools prioritize FCS football, they will have a hard time becoming a true mid-major power in basketball. South Dakota State is basically the only non-Big Sky exception, but they are 0-7 all time in the NCAA Tournament. Montana is 2-13 in the tournament. North Dakota State has four NCAA tournament appearances and two wins, but one was in the First Four.

[aucat]

And then you have a program like Gonzaga. I agree that Coach Bin is getting us closer. I just don't know if we are a match pysically for Ohio State today, but hey, if the shots fall for us and not for them, I would not be shocked it the Cats prevail. Our know our ladies will give it their all.

[SACCAT]

Part of the reason schools like Drake are great in basketball is BECAUSE their football team sucks. They do not spend money investing in chasing national championships. They are fine to play in a non-scholarship league and just try to win the Pioneer League. They don't need to make a ton of revenue off a big-time football experience to support athletics. They pour money into basketball.

Drake head coach Ben McCollum, who was heavily in the mix before MSU hired Danny Sprinkle had a base salary of $275,000 at Northwest Missouri State when he was being courted by MSU. His salary is not public but many reports have it at more than $600,000.

The formula for being great in men's college basketball stems almost exclusively from resources and money. The SEC has become the best conference in the country because of football money. Big Ten and Big XII are right there.

The other power house leagues/programs are almost all schools who don't prioritize or don't even offer football. Think Gonzaga, Creighton, Marquette, Saint Mary's, Xavier and now new upstarts like High Point and Grand Canyon, who are already getting better seeds than the Big Sky champs despite being new on the scene.

As long as the Big Sky Conference and the Montana schools prioritize FCS football, they will have a hard time becoming a true mid-major power in basketball. South Dakota State is basically the only non-Big Sky exception, but they are 0-7 all time in the NCAA Tournament. Montana is 2-13 in the tournament. North Dakota State has four NCAA tournament appearances and two wins, but one was in the First Four.

THIS!!!

[MSU01]

And then you have a program like Gonzaga. I agree that Coach Bin is getting us closer. I just don't know if we are a match pysically for Ohio State today, but hey, if the shots fall for us and not for them, I would not be shocked it the Cats prevail. Our know our ladies will give it their all.

Anything's possible! Another 13 seed Liberty just gave 4 seed Kentucky a major scare with a big 4th quarter comeback, but ended up losing by one 79-78.

[tetoncat]

Last night I watched 11 seed Drake take down 6 seed Missouri from the "mighty" (at least in the eyes of the media) SEC. I had to wonder, how can a mid major like Drake, whose football team is a joke compared to Montana State, get it done yet the Big Sky can't come close? Our Big Sky teams beat FBS teams in football. We beat major conference teams during the regular season in basketball (the NAU women just whipped Arizona for the second time this year.) But you would think the Big Sky could produce a team capable of winning a game in the NCAAs once every 20 years.

Drake was an 11. Big difference than 14. Griz had a shot but needed to shoot 50% not in 30s. Last year's Cat team had a shot at a 16 play in win but not enough talent for any other. The prior 2 years they could have won with higher seed or better match up. Kansas State and Texas Tech were just too athletic. Dalton Knect didn't become so much better individually after going to Tennessee. He had better athletes around him that allowed his game to blossom.

[Montanabob]

Part of the reason schools like Drake are great in basketball is BECAUSE their football team sucks. They do not spend money investing in chasing national championships. They are fine to play in a non-scholarship league and just try to win the Pioneer League. They don't need to make a ton of revenue off a big-time football experience to support athletics. They pour money into basketball.

Drake head coach Ben McCollum, who was heavily in the mix before MSU hired Danny Sprinkle had a base salary of $275,000 at Northwest Missouri State when he was being courted by MSU. His salary is not public but many reports have it at more than $600,000.

The formula for being great in men's college basketball stems almost exclusively from resources and money. The SEC has become the best conference in the country because of football money. Big Ten and Big XII are right there.

The other power house leagues/programs are almost all schools who don't prioritize or don't even offer football. Think Gonzaga, Creighton, Marquette, Saint Mary's, Xavier and now new upstarts like High Point and Grand Canyon, who are already getting better seeds than the Big Sky champs despite being new on the scene.

As long as the Big Sky Conference and the Montana schools prioritize FCS football, they will have a hard time becoming a true mid-major power in basketball. South Dakota State is basically the only non-Big Sky exception, but they are 0-7 all time in the NCAA Tournament. Montana is 2-13 in the tournament. North Dakota State has four NCAA tournament appearances and two wins, but one was in the First Four.

just to be honest, we will struggle to be a mid-major in basketball because of the portal and money available. Until we get a whale that supports a decade of NIL, we will never compete.

[BelgradeBobcat]

Part of the reason schools like Drake are great in basketball is BECAUSE their football team sucks. They do not spend money investing in chasing national championships. They are fine to play in a non-scholarship league and just try to win the Pioneer League. They don't need to make a ton of revenue off a big-time football experience to support athletics. They pour money into basketball.

Drake head coach Ben McCollum, who was heavily in the mix before MSU hired Danny Sprinkle had a base salary of $275,000 at Northwest Missouri State when he was being courted by MSU. His salary is not public but many reports have it at more than $600,000.

The formula for being great in men's college basketball stems almost exclusively from resources and money. The SEC has become the best conference in the country because of football money. Big Ten and Big XII are right there.

The other power house leagues/programs are almost all schools who don't prioritize or don't even offer football. Think Gonzaga, Creighton, Marquette, Saint Mary's, Xavier and now new upstarts like High Point and Grand Canyon, who are already getting better seeds than the Big Sky champs despite being new on the scene.

As long as the Big Sky Conference and the Montana schools prioritize FCS football, they will have a hard time becoming a true mid-major power in basketball. South Dakota State is basically the only non-Big Sky exception, but they are 0-7 all time in the NCAA Tournament. Montana is 2-13 in the tournament. North Dakota State has four NCAA tournament appearances and two wins, but one was in the First Four.

just to be honest, we will struggle to be a mid-major in basketball because of the portal and money available. Until we get a whale that supports a decade of NIL, we will never compete.

We can't even afford to put names on the back of our jerseys...

[tetoncat]

Part of the reason schools like Drake are great in basketball is BECAUSE their football team sucks. They do not spend money investing in chasing national championships. They are fine to play in a non-scholarship league and just try to win the Pioneer League. They don't need to make a ton of revenue off a big-time football experience to support athletics. They pour money into basketball.

Drake head coach Ben McCollum, who was heavily in the mix before MSU hired Danny Sprinkle had a base salary of $275,000 at Northwest Missouri State when he was being courted by MSU. His salary is not public but many reports have it at more than $600,000.

The formula for being great in men's college basketball stems almost exclusively from resources and money. The SEC has become the best conference in the country because of football money. Big Ten and Big XII are right there.

The other power house leagues/programs are almost all schools who don't prioritize or don't even offer football. Think Gonzaga, Creighton, Marquette, Saint Mary's, Xavier and now new upstarts like High Point and Grand Canyon, who are already getting better seeds than the Big Sky champs despite being new on the scene.

As long as the Big Sky Conference and the Montana schools prioritize FCS football, they will have a hard time becoming a true mid-major power in basketball. South Dakota State is basically the only non-Big Sky exception, but they are 0-7 all time in the NCAA Tournament. Montana is 2-13 in the tournament. North Dakota State has four NCAA tournament appearances and two wins, but one was in the First Four.

just to be honest, we will struggle to be a mid-major in basketball because of the portal and money available. Until we get a whale that supports a decade of NIL, we will never compete.

We can't even afford to put names on the back of our jerseys...

Like a lot of other teams. And in women their pony tails cover the names up most of the time.

[BobcatDel]

Part of the reason schools like Drake are great in basketball is BECAUSE their football team sucks. They do not spend money investing in chasing national championships. They are fine to play in a non-scholarship league and just try to win the Pioneer League. They don't need to make a ton of revenue off a big-time football experience to support athletics. They pour money into basketball.

Drake head coach Ben McCollum, who was heavily in the mix before MSU hired Danny Sprinkle had a base salary of $275,000 at Northwest Missouri State when he was being courted by MSU. His salary is not public but many reports have it at more than $600,000.

The formula for being great in men's college basketball stems almost exclusively from resources and money. The SEC has become the best conference in the country because of football money. Big Ten and Big XII are right there.

The other power house leagues/programs are almost all schools who don't prioritize or don't even offer football. Think Gonzaga, Creighton, Marquette, Saint Mary's, Xavier and now new upstarts like High Point and Grand Canyon, who are already getting better seeds than the Big Sky champs despite being new on the scene.

As long as the Big Sky Conference and the Montana schools prioritize FCS football, they will have a hard time becoming a true mid-major power in basketball. South Dakota State is basically the only non-Big Sky exception, but they are 0-7 all time in the NCAA Tournament. Montana is 2-13 in the tournament. North Dakota State has four NCAA tournament appearances and two wins, but one was in the First Four.

Just clarifying….SDSU 0-7 record you reference must be referencing MBB only….because their WBB record is 5-12 in the NCAA with one trip to Sweet 16.

[TomCat88]

More data points that add to the BSC's low standing in the basketball world. MSU women lost by 20, UM lost by 19 and then both the teams that beat them lost their next game. OSU at home to 5 seed Tennessee by 17. Wisconsin to 6 seed BYU by just two, but they were down 14 in the second half and 10 with about 2 minutes to go.

Granted they don't mean much as standalone points.

I just feel like the difference between the BSC and the top Division 1 conferences is about the same as the difference between the Frontier Conference and the BSC.

[MSU01]

I just feel like the difference between the BSC and the top Division 1 conferences is about the same as the difference between the Frontier Conference and the BSC.

You're right, but most people here are still dead set against moving up to a bigger conference if given the opportunity because they'd rather the football team continue to be one of the biggest fish in an ever-shrinking pond. MSU needs to be at the level of the other "State" schools in the reorganized Pac-12 and MWC if we want the basketball teams to ever have a chance to truly compete with the big schools.

[tetoncat]

I just feel like the difference between the BSC and the top Division 1 conferences is about the same as the difference between the Frontier Conference and the BSC.

You're right, but most people here are still dead set against moving up to a bigger conference if given the opportunity because they'd rather the football team continue to be one of the biggest fish in an ever-shrinking pond. MSU needs to be at the level of the other "State" schools in the reorganized Pac-12 and MWC if we want the basketball teams to ever have a chance to truly compete with the big schools.

How did the MWC do? If football moves up Cats are still years away from winning more than 1 upset win. It is all about money, which mostly comes from TV and revenue sharing. As others teams in MWC move on and you backfill those revenues will diminish. FBS teams do not want to share that and Power 4 just keep getting bigger.

[tetoncat]

More data points that add to the BSC's low standing in the basketball world. MSU women lost by 20, UM lost by 19 and then both the teams that beat them lost their next game. OSU at home to 5 seed Tennessee by 17. Wisconsin to 6 seed BYU by just two, but they were down 14 in the second half and 10 with about 2 minutes to go.

Granted they don't mean much as standalone points.

I just feel like the difference between the BSC and the top Division 1 conferences is about the same as the difference between the Frontier Conference and the BSC.

So in past years if BSC teams lost by 20 or less and team that beat them moved on to top 16, 8, 4 etc did that mean it should have helped in the future?

[TomCat88]

More data points that add to the BSC's low standing in the basketball world. MSU women lost by 20, UM lost by 19 and then both the teams that beat them lost their next game. OSU at home to 5 seed Tennessee by 17. Wisconsin to 6 seed BYU by just two, but they were down 14 in the second half and 10 with about 2 minutes to go.

Granted they don't mean much as standalone points.

I just feel like the difference between the BSC and the top Division 1 conferences is about the same as the difference between the Frontier Conference and the BSC.

So in past years if BSC teams lost by 20 or less and team that beat them moved on to top 16, 8, 4 etc did that mean it should have helped in the future?

I don't know. It just seems like people wouldn't think this was all that much fun. If you do win a Dance game, it is just going to look like you got lucky and had a good day when the opponent had a bad day. I think a mid-major tournament might be more fun. The FCS tournament is fun, isn't it? I'd rather have a chance to win a lower division championship, than no chance at winning a higher division championship.

[tetoncat]

More data points that add to the BSC's low standing in the basketball world. MSU women lost by 20, UM lost by 19 and then both the teams that beat them lost their next game. OSU at home to 5 seed Tennessee by 17. Wisconsin to 6 seed BYU by just two, but they were down 14 in the second half and 10 with about 2 minutes to go.

Granted they don't mean much as standalone points.

I just feel like the difference between the BSC and the top Division 1 conferences is about the same as the difference between the Frontier Conference and the BSC.

So in past years if BSC teams lost by 20 or less and team that beat them moved on to top 16, 8, 4 etc did that mean it should have helped in the future?

I don't know. It just seems like people wouldn't think this was all that much fun. If you do win a Dance game, it is just going to look like you got lucky and had a good day when the opponent had a bad day. I think a mid-major tournament might be more fun. The FCS tournament is fun, isn't it? I'd rather have a chance to win a lower division championship, than no chance at winning a higher division championship.

Valid points and I would tend to agree. MSU01 Comment is more the other direction, where without moving up we never have a chance at anything but a low level title. MSU is strong in multiple sports at our level now. Moving up I am not sure that is sustainable.

[PapaG]

MSU came the closest in 2024.

It was an OT loss after blowing a 14-point 2nd half lead to a SWAC team in the First Four, but still…