American Troops beaten in Seattle

['93HonoluluCat]

I don't care how you feel about military operations anywhere in the world. This is despicable.

[geogfather]

I don't care how you feel about military operations anywhere in the world. This is despicable.

While I completely agree with you, it looks at least on the surface, like this had nothing at all to do with the fact that they were soldiers and were fighting in Iraq. Lets not make a bigger deal out of this than it really is. People get assaulted in this country every day. Im not saying they should, but this wasnt a beating due to political beliefs.

[mslacat]

Catch them

HARD TIME

[lifeloyalsigmsu]

I don't care how you feel about military operations anywhere in the world. This is despicable.

While I completely agree with you, it looks at least on the surface, like this had nothing at all to do with the fact that they were soldiers and were fighting in Iraq. Lets not make a bigger deal out of this than it really is. People get assaulted in this country every day. Im not saying they should, but this wasnt a beating due to political beliefs.

A bigger deal? The guys suffered broken jaws and other broken fractures. I wonder if they were in uniform when it happened.

Seeing those pictures brings me back to the Mardi Gras riots that happened in the exact same place around Larry's Night Club back in 2001. The fights that broke out were racially motivated and I watched a kid named Christopher Kime die that night after a couple of degenerates kicked him repeatedly in the head while the police watched.

This situation has a lot of similarity in that it was recorded and the suspects' names came about later.

['93HonoluluCat]

t looks at least on the surface, like this had nothing at all to do with the fact that they were soldiers and were fighting in Iraq. Lets not make a bigger deal out of this than it really is. People get assaulted in this country every day. Im not saying they should, but this wasnt a beating due to political beliefs.

You should append your take with a statement of "as far as we know."

And you're right. But regardless of my affiliation with these young soldiers through the Profession of Arms, I still call the behavior displayed by the hoodlums as despicable.

[SonomaCat]

You should append your take with a statement of "as far as we know."

The guys who were caught on tape don't exactly look like the types that would be manning the booths at anti-war rallies ... I think it's a pretty safe assumption that, as the article suggested, this had more to do with the two women the guys were with than geopolitics. It doesn't make it any less disgusting, but it at least rules any any need to distinguish this crime from any other street assault and eliminates the need for somebody to come up with a new hate crime category in response.

['93HonoluluCat]

The guys who were caught on tape don't exactly look like the types that would be manning the booths at anti-war rallies

You haven't seen, then, the videos of campus recruiting teams leaving student union buildings (don't remember the campus(es) of the top of my head)--they didn't look like the types that would be "manning the booths," either.

[Grizlaw]

The guys who were caught on tape don't exactly look like the types that would be manning the booths at anti-war rallies

You haven't seen, then, the videos of campus recruiting teams leaving student union buildings (don't remember the campus(es) of the top of my head)--they didn't look like the types that would be "manning the booths," either.

I've got to go with everybody else on this one, '93. Yes, it's theoretically possible that these beatings happened because the men were soldiers. It's also possible, I suppose, that one of the soldiers' fathers is an abortion doctor, and the attacks were a means of expressing the attackers' anti-abortion views. In the absence of any evidence to the contrary, though, I personally am going to believe the most obvious answer -- this was just a fight that happened outside a bar, much like several hundred other fights that probably happened outside bars in major cities all over the country (and in Butte) on the same night. Despicable? Yes. Politically motivated? Probably not.

[briannell]

HC93-

this surprised me, because this area of WA is very pro military. we are at Ft. Lewis, just south of Seattle and they have been SOOOOOO wonderfully supportive of our troops, and their families. I agree with GL, I think it was just a bar fight. don't think it worse because they are soldiers, i think it's just crappy period. we were here also when Kime was killed, nice kid protecting a girl, killed for NO reason. Jerks are everywhere, and mixed with alcohol fights are going to occur. although, I must also say that soldiers coming back from Iraq, here at Ft. Lewis, are warned to be careful and not go out partying like this. everyone is encouraged to get RR, but s**tfaced drunk isn't endorsed.

I think those who assaulted should go to jail.

['93HonoluluCat]

The guys who were caught on tape don't exactly look like the types that would be manning the booths at anti-war rallies

You haven't seen, then, the videos of campus recruiting teams leaving student union buildings (don't remember the campus(es) of the top of my head)--they didn't look like the types that would be "manning the booths," either.

I've got to go with everybody else on this one, '93. Yes, it's theoretically possible that these beatings happened because the men were soldiers. It's also possible, I suppose, that one of the soldiers' fathers is an abortion doctor, and the attacks were a means of expressing the attackers' anti-abortion views. In the absence of any evidence to the contrary, though, I personally am going to believe the most obvious answer -- this was just a fight that happened outside a bar, much like several hundred other fights that probably happened outside bars in major cities all over the country (and in Butte) on the same night. Despicable? Yes. Politically motivated? Probably not.

In my second post on this thread I said even if the beatings weren't an anti-military action, that it was despicable. The fact is, we just don't know what motivated these thugs until they're caught. I think even you would agree with that logic.

[Grizlaw]

In my second post on this thread I said even if the beatings weren't an anti-military action, that it was despicable. The fact is, we just don't know what motivated these thugs until they're caught. I think even you would agree with that logic.

Of course we can't *know* what their motivation was until they are caught (and possibly not even then, depending on how cooperative they are). In the absence of any evidence, though, which do you think is the more logical assumption: the most obvious (i.e., random street crime fueled by alcohol and stupidity), or the least obvious (i.e., hate crime driven by desire to prove a political point)??

The thing that I find most intersting about this incident is the fact that it became national news at all. If you read the Metro section of the NY Times, you'll see that there are, on average, several homicides and several other violent crimes committed *every night* in NYC; those crimes are equally despicable, and they get no more than a paragraph or two on page 40 of the local newspaper. Assuming this incident was not motivated by the victims' military status (and there is no evidence that it was), one has to wonder about the motivation behind this becoming more than a local news story.

[Hell's Bells]

I hope that the kids who were involved in this rot in hell

[SonomaCat]

I hope that the kids who were involved in this rot in hell

Well, yeah. You set the bar pretty low for the rotting in hell crowd after you declared that you hoped T.O. rotted in hell.

[Hell's Bells]

I hope that the kids who were involved in this rot in hell

Well, yeah. You set the bar pretty low for the rotting in hell crowd after you declared that you hoped T.O. rotted in hell.

no T.O. set the bar high, he and spreewell have to make money for their family, lord knows that if they go one game without a paycheck they will loose their homes and purchased used '93 Ford Tarus wagons lol

['93HonoluluCat]

In my second post on this thread I said even if the beatings weren't an anti-military action, that it was despicable. The fact is, we just don't know what motivated these thugs until they're caught. I think even you would agree with that logic.

Of course we can't *know* what their motivation was until they are caught (and possibly not even then, depending on how cooperative they are). In the absence of any evidence, though, which do you think is the more logical assumption: the most obvious (i.e., random street crime fueled by alcohol and stupidity), or the least obvious (i.e., hate crime driven by desire to prove a political point)??

The thing that I find most intersting about this incident is the fact that it became national news at all. If you read the Metro section of the NY Times, you'll see that there are, on average, several homicides and several other violent crimes committed *every night* in NYC; those crimes are equally despicable, and they get no more than a paragraph or two on page 40 of the local newspaper. Assuming this incident was not motivated by the victims' military status (and there is no evidence that it was), one has to wonder about the motivation behind this becoming more than a local news story.

I understand the low likelihood of this beating being politically motivated. It is probable this is just another bar brawl. It is possible, though, this is based on the soldiers' profession. Say, for instance, in the bar the soldiers were shooting their mouths off about how great the were in Iraq. The thugs, thinking the war is terrible and atrocious, and Bush was not elected, and then the President again stole the election, and Michael Moore is the greatest filmmaker of all time, and...and...invited the two outside to "talk." Isn't that plausible?

I do not claim to know this is or is not just another feud fueled by "liquid courage." I think all crimes of this caliber are despicable, and I think the reason this one caught my eye is that I have relatives in the area, and I'm in the military. It will be interesting to hear the thugs' point-of-view.

[lifeloyalsigmsu]

In my second post on this thread I said even if the beatings weren't an anti-military action, that it was despicable. The fact is, we just don't know what motivated these thugs until they're caught. I think even you would agree with that logic.

Of course we can't *know* what their motivation was until they are caught (and possibly not even then, depending on how cooperative they are). In the absence of any evidence, though, which do you think is the more logical assumption: the most obvious (i.e., random street crime fueled by alcohol and stupidity), or the least obvious (i.e., hate crime driven by desire to prove a political point)??

The thing that I find most intersting about this incident is the fact that it became national news at all. If you read the Metro section of the NY Times, you'll see that there are, on average, several homicides and several other violent crimes committed *every night* in NYC; those crimes are equally despicable, and they get no more than a paragraph or two on page 40 of the local newspaper. Assuming this incident was not motivated by the victims' military status (and there is no evidence that it was), one has to wonder about the motivation behind this becoming more than a local news story.

I understand the low likelihood of this beating being politically motivated. It is probable this is just another bar brawl. It is possible, though, this is based on the soldiers' profession. Say, for instance, in the bar the soldiers were shooting their mouths off about how great the were in Iraq. The thugs, thinking the war is terrible and atrocious, and Bush was not elected, and then the President again stole the election, and Michael Moore is the greatest filmmaker of all time, and...and...invited the two outside to "talk." Isn't that plausible?

I do not claim to know this is or is not just another feud fueled by "liquid courage." I think all crimes of this caliber are despicable, and I think the reason this one caught my eye is that I have relatives in the area, and I'm in the military. It will be interesting to hear the thugs' point-of-view.

Ok, for starts, who has been in the Pioneer Square area where this happened? Basically the entire area is a big conglomerate of bars that charge one large cover fee that allows you to roam about 10 or so bars. I think a logical assumption that is most credible would be that one of the girls was grabbed or had something said to them. The soldiers said someting back. Drunkenness ensued, words were exchanged, and fists were thrown. End of story.

I don't care what anyone says, if you go down there and party, you can sense racial tension as well. It's been pretty tense for some time and it culminated in the Mardi Gras riots. Now there's obviously no proof that there were racial motives for this incident but you can be sure that it will at least be brought up.

And Rebecca, you're right about the support the military except for one minor point. That military support basically stops as soon as you enter Seattle proper. Once you get into Federal Way and work your way south, it gets friendlier.

As for somone who mentioned what happened with people running recruiters off the campus and threatening them as well as destroying their property, it happened just a little east of where this beating happened. The recruiters were harassed at Seattle Central CC in the Capitol Hill area.

['93HonoluluCat]

[M]ilitary support basically stops as soon as you enter Seattle proper. Once you get into Federal Way and work your way south, it gets friendlier.

I agree--but my personal feeling is the whole of King County, but the northern part of Pierce County (where my mom lives) is starting to get less "military friendly" as well.

As for somone who mentioned what happened with people running recruiters off the campus and threatening them as well as destroying their property, it happened just a little east of where this beating happened. The recruiters were harassed at Seattle Central CC in the Capitol Hill area.

Thank you for refreshing my memory.