Pat Tillman

RyeCat · Post by **RyeCat** » Thu Sep 29, 2005 9:13 pm

Well, this thread pretty much went to hell in a handbasket.

iaafan · Post by **iaafan** » Fri Sep 30, 2005 8:25 am

[quote="Ponycat"]I might be able to believe your explanation if your "query" had other possibilities than Mr. Tillman being killed intentionally.[/quote]

Most of the other possibilities have been pretty hashed over. Not too many are talking about this possibility. Now I know why.

Post by **SonomaCat** » Mon Oct 03, 2005 12:31 am

Ponycat wrote:
iaafan wrote: Was it upsetting the upper brass? Is that what the coverup was for in the first place? Was it friendly fire or was he shot intentionally?
Emoticon???

Who let Oliver Stone into this thread.

I honestly can't believe that you and BAC believe what you both have just stated.

Anything to make an anti-war statement more emotional.
Give me a break.

What did I post that you can't believe? If anything that Pat said or did could hurt a political party, people working for that party would smear him to minimize the damage to their own interests. I don't doubt that. It's standard procedure. It's pathetic, but it happens constantly in this country.

Don't lump me in with conspiracy theories about the his death being anything other than accidental, however.

briannell · Post by **briannell** » Mon Oct 03, 2005 1:47 pm

just a general question for you boys. if we keep investigating/rehashing Tillman, shouldn't we reopen those gulf war/Vietnam Vets cases that are questionable? many vets had "friendly fire" incidents. NO their fellow soldiers weren't TRYING to kill them, but under very stressful conditions, and confusion things happen. Tillman served and died in uniform, I respect that. the fact that he gave up the NFL doesn't weigh in the issue. he is no more a hero than any vet that has served and shed blood/died for our country. he just went in with a fatter wallet than most soldiers.
i think we focus on Tillman because he was a pro athlete and our society for some reason holds them in such great esteme. really they are just paid better money to play a sport, doesn't make them better people.

by the way my "bro" Jay was shot in the arm by a fellow marine during the gulf war. marine was hit in the ankle, fell and pulled the trigger on his weapon. Jay was grazed by "friendly" fire. these guys don't go out to kill their fellow service members. Doubt Tillman was a "hit."

iaafan · Post by **iaafan** » Mon Oct 03, 2005 2:53 pm

Briannell: I think what's at issue here is that there appears to be a coverup in Tillman's case. First he was said to have been shot by the enemy, then by FF, then the FF report had holes in it. The Tillman family has asked to see the reports and it doesn't make any sense to them. They are being assisted in the matter by Sen. John McCain (R) Arizona a POW from the Vietnam War.
It seems to be a complicated matter, but that's not to say that other FF matters weren't complicated and shouldn't be investigated. Was it a case of friendly fire? Probably. But shouldn't it be investigated when there appears to be a coverup and the reports don't add up?
Earlier in this thread there is an article about Tillman, which may answer some of your questions.

briannell · Post by **briannell** » Mon Oct 03, 2005 3:40 pm

don't all army reports read like cover ups? I don't know what your (iaafan)
experience is with the military but mine is 31 years. my dad is still trying to get things from Nam "situated" with the Army, and he put in 28 years. I think Tillman is getting special attention because of the NFL background. I think ALL service members should get the same treatment. I do not think Tillman is anymore of a hero than those other (average joe's) that died for our country. As far as McCain is concerned he is a decent man. My hubby did work for him while on Army/Pentagon duties. I think the Tillman case is being exploited, and think that although they suffered a great loss (Tillman family) they don't deserve better/more treatment than any other widow and family.

sorry not impressed with him above other service members. Tillman's life is a terrible loss, but I have been here at Ft. Lewis when we bring service members home in coiffins and they are all heros. some died saving others lives, some in road side bombs, some grenades ALL brought HONOR to the uniform they wear. that's my point.

Post by **SonomaCat** » Mon Oct 03, 2005 3:49 pm

briannell wrote:don't all army reports read like cover ups? I don't know what your (iaafan)
experience is with the military but mine is 31 years. my dad is still trying to get things from Nam "situated" with the Army, and he put in 28 years. I think Tillman is getting special attention because of the NFL background. I think ALL service members should get the same treatment. I do not think Tillman is anymore of a hero than those other (average joe's) that died for our country. As far as McCain is concerned he is a decent man. My hubby did work for him while on Army/Pentagon duties. I think the Tillman case is being exploited, and think that although they suffered a great loss (Tillman family) they don't deserve better/more treatment than any other widow and family.

sorry not impressed with him above other service members. Tillman's life is a terrible loss, but I have been here at Ft. Lewis when we bring service members home in coiffins and they are all heros. some died saving others lives, some in road side bombs, some grenades ALL brought HONOR to the uniform they wear. that's my point.

I don't think the family is asking for any special favors or attention here. It was actually the government that built up the Tillman story and first tried to use him for favorable PR, and later apparently tried to save face on that previous PR by covering up the fact that he died from friendly fire by lying about the circumstances of his death.

The family isn't trying to get anything special -- just the full truth. I agree with you that everyone deserves that same treatment.

I did a google search and found this article. I'm sure it has a bias, but it lays out a bit of exactly who did and did not seek to put Pat Tillman on a level higher than other soldiers in the interest of PR:

http://counterpunch.org/zirin04292004.html

briannell · Post by **briannell** » Mon Oct 03, 2005 4:11 pm

thanks Brad for article.

iaafan · Post by **iaafan** » Mon Oct 03, 2005 4:59 pm

It's good to look back at these stories that were written right after this happened.

raincat · Post by **raincat** » Wed Oct 05, 2005 3:17 pm

The Seahawks played Arizona in Seattle two weeks ago. It was "Armed Forces" or "All-Military" Day. Just before the game the field was covered with Old Glory, handsome young people in military uniforms and various law enforcement officers. It was a beautiful day and everyone was really getting into it. Suddenly on the big screen the camera zoomed in on an attractive young lady who stood in front of the crowd with tears welling in her eyes and the inscription read "Marie Tillman, wife of Pat Tillman". You had to be made of stone not to feel her pain. You could literally feel the emotion change from patriotic fevor to patriotic passion from the 60,000 plus fans as she received a standing ovation. It was very real....very sobering.