Split - Welsch article on MSU/murder

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Cat Grad
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Post by Cat Grad » Sat Jul 01, 2006 3:51 pm

crazycat wrote:
profisme wrote:Simply put this article should have been in the opinion section rather than the Sports section. The only person alleging that Jacques and Aaron Rich are involved in the killing is Welsch himself. No other article or evidence states that either is implicitly involved in the murder, whether directly or indirectly, unless you count a vehicle that looks like Aaron Rich's or a locker that belonged to Jacques Wilson.

The police stated they were satisfied that Jacques had nothing to do with the incident so what in the blazes does Welsch do? (this is a rhetorical question) He goes ahead and states that Jacques is allegedly involved in the murder. I was disappointed with the article by Ted Sullivan, but Mr. Welsch decided to try and make a massive and controversial story out of speculation, old news stories, and a lack of response by MSU athletics. Sorry Mr. Welsch but you are no MacGyver. Only he could build a bomb out of duct tape, a safety pin, and three rubber bands.

The idea that MSU Athletics is somehow responsible for these individuals making poor choices is bogus. If you wish to stir up controversy please go to Washington where writers like that are welcomed. MSU and Bozeman may not be perfect, but we are far from jaded like yourself nor are we naïve enough to be fooled into believing that you truly are objective.
The article by Welsch is not a report, it's a column. So profisme is right, it should/could be in the opinion section, but since it's a column it's definitely OK for it to be on the sports page. When a writer puts together a column it is his opinion. Usually a writer will support his opinion with facts. In terms of Wilson and Rich, Welsch does this. While the article may have weaknesses in other areas, it isn't weak in the area of Rich and Wilson. The column is about his opinion that the school used poor communication skills in this case, it's not about Wilson and Rich aiding and abetting a murder.

He notifies the readers that this is a column by saying:
I am commenting this morning
In the following statement he does not allege that Wilson and Rich are key players in this, but that they are involved. And they are involved. Involved does not mean you commited a crime. And the context of which Welsch is using this information isn't to implicate them as criminals, it's to reinforce why he thinks the school should've been more open about the case. It's his opinion that the school should've made a statement greater than that of Gamble'.
tragedy involving Branden Miller, John Lebrum, Jacques Wilson and Aaron Rich for
The next line isn't an accusation or opinion, it's information from the DA's affidavit. Since it leads anyone to surmise that the guns are in Wilson's locker (Who wouldn't think they were in Wilson's locker?), then Welsch feels the school should say something, but he's certainly not pointing a finger at Wilson. Again his point is that given this evidence, the school should say something, the point is not to imply that Wilson is a cooperating player in this crime.
Never mind that the alleged murder weapon was found, according to a district attorney’s affadavit, in an MSU basketball locker labeled “1 Wilson,” which would lead one to surmise that the locker belongs to sophomore-to-be Jacques Wilson.
Again in this next line from his column, Welsch is not saying that Rich did anything, he's just pointing out that this information is in the police report, but the school still isn't commenting.
And never mind that tires on a vehicle belonging to Rich, who played on the 2001 Big Sky Conference championship basketball team, were matched to tire tracks where Wright’s body was discovered in a wheat field west of Bozeman.
Welsch's point is that the school should've made a more substantial statement. Personally, I felt what the school said was enough. Maybe I'm right and he's wrong or maybe I'm wrong and he's right. But that doesn't matter. It's his column and he's free to express himself.

Welsch's point wasn't to say that Wilson or Rich were aiding and abetting the person that killed Wright. And what Welsch says does not say in anyway that they were aiding and abetting the killer.

It's very unfair to condemn Welsch as a false accuser, especially in a piece that is ripping the communication skills, or lack thereof, of MSU.
BULL!!!!!!!!!! He in essense rendered a false report at best and fabricated a story by passing judgement by using his medium to serve as judge, jury and executioner at the worst. Even CBS did away with Sam Donaldson for reporting something to be fact without having all the facts, which is rendering a false report. Period. His careless reporting damaged at least one young man and quite possibly two and he smeared the reputation of virtually every administrator at MSU. There's a reason many of us hold him in as much contempt as he holds the community he is forced (it appears) to live. He's not a good fit, just as Potera wasn't :evil:



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Post by crazycat » Sat Jul 01, 2006 6:02 pm

BULL!!!!!!!!!! He in essense rendered a false report at best and fabricated a story by passing judgement by using his medium to serve as judge, jury and executioner at the worst. Even CBS did away with Sam Donaldson for reporting something to be fact without having all the facts, which is rendering a false report. Period. His careless reporting damaged at least one young man and quite possibly two and he smeared the reputation of virtually every administrator at MSU. There's a reason many of us hold him in as much contempt as he holds the community he is forced (it appears) to live. He's not a good fit, just as Potera wasn't
Gee, one more exclamation point and I'd probably got a-scared and ran away.

Again he didn't make a report, he wrote a column (gave his opinion). He didn't give his opinion about anyone's guilt or innocence, but was irked at MSU for not making a more substantial statement.

In what way and on whom did he pass judgement?

If he damaged anyone it was based on the police report and DA's comments, so why aren't you blasting them? It isn't like he got a fax from Lubbock, Texas and ran with it. His info comes from the legal source.

From I've read over the time he's been here, people seem to like him and say he's a vast improvement over the past writers.



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Post by GOKATS » Sun Jul 02, 2006 12:08 am

crazycat wrote:
BULL!!!!!!!!!! He in essense rendered a false report at best and fabricated a story by passing judgement by using his medium to serve as judge, jury and executioner at the worst. Even CBS did away with Sam Donaldson for reporting something to be fact without having all the facts, which is rendering a false report. Period. His careless reporting damaged at least one young man and quite possibly two and he smeared the reputation of virtually every administrator at MSU. There's a reason many of us hold him in as much contempt as he holds the community he is forced (it appears) to live. He's not a good fit, just as Potera wasn't
Gee, one more exclamation point and I'd probably got a-scared and ran away.

Again he didn't make a report, he wrote a column (gave his opinion). He didn't give his opinion about anyone's guilt or innocence, but was irked at MSU for not making a more substantial statement.

In what way and on whom did he pass judgement?

If he damaged anyone it was based on the police report and DA's comments, so why aren't you blasting them? It isn't like he got a fax from Lubbock, Texas and ran with it. His info comes from the legal source.

From I've read over the time he's been here, people seem to like him and say he's a vast improvement over the past writers.
Good post Jeff............er Hink..............er?


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Post by Hell's Bells » Sun Jul 02, 2006 8:13 am

Cat Grad wrote:
crazycat wrote:
profisme wrote:Simply put this article should have been in the opinion section rather than the Sports section. The only person alleging that Jacques and Aaron Rich are involved in the killing is Welsch himself. No other article or evidence states that either is implicitly involved in the murder, whether directly or indirectly, unless you count a vehicle that looks like Aaron Rich's or a locker that belonged to Jacques Wilson.

The police stated they were satisfied that Jacques had nothing to do with the incident so what in the blazes does Welsch do? (this is a rhetorical question) He goes ahead and states that Jacques is allegedly involved in the murder. I was disappointed with the article by Ted Sullivan, but Mr. Welsch decided to try and make a massive and controversial story out of speculation, old news stories, and a lack of response by MSU athletics. Sorry Mr. Welsch but you are no MacGyver. Only he could build a bomb out of duct tape, a safety pin, and three rubber bands.

The idea that MSU Athletics is somehow responsible for these individuals making poor choices is bogus. If you wish to stir up controversy please go to Washington where writers like that are welcomed. MSU and Bozeman may not be perfect, but we are far from jaded like yourself nor are we naïve enough to be fooled into believing that you truly are objective.
The article by Welsch is not a report, it's a column. So profisme is right, it should/could be in the opinion section, but since it's a column it's definitely OK for it to be on the sports page. When a writer puts together a column it is his opinion. Usually a writer will support his opinion with facts. In terms of Wilson and Rich, Welsch does this. While the article may have weaknesses in other areas, it isn't weak in the area of Rich and Wilson. The column is about his opinion that the school used poor communication skills in this case, it's not about Wilson and Rich aiding and abetting a murder.

He notifies the readers that this is a column by saying:
I am commenting this morning
In the following statement he does not allege that Wilson and Rich are key players in this, but that they are involved. And they are involved. Involved does not mean you commited a crime. And the context of which Welsch is using this information isn't to implicate them as criminals, it's to reinforce why he thinks the school should've been more open about the case. It's his opinion that the school should've made a statement greater than that of Gamble'.
tragedy involving Branden Miller, John Lebrum, Jacques Wilson and Aaron Rich for
The next line isn't an accusation or opinion, it's information from the DA's affidavit. Since it leads anyone to surmise that the guns are in Wilson's locker (Who wouldn't think they were in Wilson's locker?), then Welsch feels the school should say something, but he's certainly not pointing a finger at Wilson. Again his point is that given this evidence, the school should say something, the point is not to imply that Wilson is a cooperating player in this crime.
Never mind that the alleged murder weapon was found, according to a district attorney’s affadavit, in an MSU basketball locker labeled “1 Wilson,” which would lead one to surmise that the locker belongs to sophomore-to-be Jacques Wilson.
Again in this next line from his column, Welsch is not saying that Rich did anything, he's just pointing out that this information is in the police report, but the school still isn't commenting.
And never mind that tires on a vehicle belonging to Rich, who played on the 2001 Big Sky Conference championship basketball team, were matched to tire tracks where Wright’s body was discovered in a wheat field west of Bozeman.
Welsch's point is that the school should've made a more substantial statement. Personally, I felt what the school said was enough. Maybe I'm right and he's wrong or maybe I'm wrong and he's right. But that doesn't matter. It's his column and he's free to express himself.

Welsch's point wasn't to say that Wilson or Rich were aiding and abetting the person that killed Wright. And what Welsch says does not say in anyway that they were aiding and abetting the killer.

It's very unfair to condemn Welsch as a false accuser, especially in a piece that is ripping the communication skills, or lack thereof, of MSU.
BULL!!!!!!!!!! He in essense rendered a false report at best and fabricated a story by passing judgement by using his medium to serve as judge, jury and executioner at the worst. Even CBS did away with Sam Donaldson for reporting something to be fact without having all the facts, which is rendering a false report. Period. His careless reporting damaged at least one young man and quite possibly two and he smeared the reputation of virtually every administrator at MSU. There's a reason many of us hold him in as much contempt as he holds the community he is forced (it appears) to live. He's not a good fit, just as Potera wasn't :evil:
i was going to get a subscription to the comicle but after this anyone know if the GF tribune delivers to Bozo?


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Post by oldcatfan » Sun Jul 02, 2006 10:29 am

crazy cat needs the RIGHT information. Have you not read any of the other posts? Welsch DID receive the statement from MSU along with every other media outlet the afternoon before he wrote his "column." The TVs used it that night before Welsch wrote his column. So, he obviously isn't checking out the other media.

I also know that the department did not get one phone call from the Chronicle asking for information before the column ran. How can you stick up for THAT?



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Post by crazycat » Sun Jul 02, 2006 11:27 am

I realize Welsch received the statement and I noted that in my posts by saying that Welsch's column is about the school putting out more information that it did. Welsch acknowledged the Gamble statement, but he thinks the school should've said more. It's his opinion that the school did not do enough in terms of making a statement. So he wrote a column about that. He noted what was in the police reports and the DA's address to support why he felt the school should've said more.

Personally, I am not saying Welsch is correct or not with what he's saying, but I'm asking where did Welsch falsely accuse Rich and Wilson of anything. He merely mentioned what the police reports had in them in reference to those two. But he did so to reinforce his notion that the school should've made a more substantial statement, not to cast doubt on them.


Obviously if Welsch didn't even try to get any information it's a different story. It's a matter of whose word do you take or a he said/she said situation. I have a difficult time believing that Welsch would run that column without having called the AD, Pres., SID, etc, but if he didn't then that would be very poor on his part.



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Post by oldcatfan » Sun Jul 02, 2006 1:43 pm

Can you tell me where in the following article Welch refers to Gamble's statement? The whole premise of criticism in this "commentary" is that MSU refuses to comment and that is where the BULL starts. You can't build a credible arguement on a bull**** premise.

June 30:
"Iam commenting this morning in the wake of the unfolding tragedy involving Branden Miller, John Lebrum, Jacques Wilson and Aaron Rich for one reason:
[b]Because Montana State University officials aren’t. [/b]
Normally, when an unseemly story breaks involving college athletes at any school, newspapers will report somebody saying something, even if it’s straight out of a well-worn spin handbook.
We’ll quote them saying that every effort is made to recruit athletes of character.
We’ll quote them reiterating that 98 percent of student-athletes are solid citizens, that it’s impossible with hundreds of student-athletes on campus to not have a few miscreants slip under the radar, and that student-athletes typically have fewer issues than the student body and society as a whole.
We’ll also quote them on all the good things happening at the university.
[b]Not so this day at MSU. [/b]
[b]The silence Thursday was deafening, even unsettling.[/b]
Never mind that all four names directly involved in a killing were, or are, connected to the school’s athletic department.
Never mind that Miller, an oft-troubled lost soul who flunked out of the basketball program in December, is charged as an accomplice to murder and could be executed.
Never mind that Lebrum, a former football player with an apparent short fuse, could meet a similar ending if found guilty of pulling the trigger on the gun that allegedly killed suspected cocaine dealer Jason Cody Wright on June 23.
Never mind that the alleged murder weapon was found, according to a district attorney’s affadavit, in an MSU basketball locker labeled “1 Wilson,” which would lead one to surmise that the locker belongs to sophomore-to-be Jacques Wilson.
And never mind that tires on a vehicle belonging to Rich, who played on the 2001 Big Sky Conference championship basketball team, were matched to tire tracks where Wright’s body was discovered in a wheat field west of Bozeman.
Obviously, there is plenty that MSU officials can’t talk about, most notably specifics of the case.
But there’s plenty they should be saying.
They should be saying that the latest in a string of embarrassing events in the athletic department has besmirched the name of a proud university once too often.
They should be saying that they will quickly learn how and why a gun could be in an athlete’s locker.
Above all else, they should be saying that, for all that’s right about MSU athletics, something is fundamentally very, very wrong and a re-evaluation of all hiring, recruiting and guidance processes will commence immediately.
Just since 2003, MSU has:
Seen an assistant head football coach, Joe O’Brien, imprisoned for distribution of methamphetamine.
Fired a women’s basketball coach, Robin Potera-Haskins, amid a player revolt.
Dismissed the starting point guard on the basketball team, Frank Brown, after his arrest on rape charges.
Seen Miller charged with partner assault and criminal mischief five months after he was dismissed from the basketball team.
And now, murder.
Allegedly involving four young adults who are in the Gallatin Valley only because Montana State brought them here to represent the school, the community and the state. Murder. You can’t file that one under, “Yeah, but every athletic department has its share of problems, too.” It might seem harsh to lay some of this tragedy at MSU’s doorstep. After all, whatever Wilson’s role is or isn’t, for instance, what we do know is that he’s the product of a solid home, the seemingly mature-beyond-hisyears son of a college coach who parented with a thundering velvet hand.
And, remember, Wilson’s name is in the mix at this point only because one of Miller’s guns was found in a locker bearing his name and number.
Miller was a dicier recruit, yes, yet thousands of athletes with challenged backgrounds like his land at colleges every year, and many use it as a launching pad to lifetime success.
He made curious choices here that were indicative of a desperate need for direction — even more than the considerable amounts he received from the basketball and academic staffs.
Yet in the 15 months I regularly interviewed him, he was softspoken, considerate and as cooperative as any Bobcat.
My lasting impression was that Miller seemed the one most in need of a hug.
Therein lies MSU’s piece of the responsibility puzzle.
Give school officials a pass, perhaps, for the ill-fated hirings of O’Brien and Potera-Haskins. Every large business has a few of those unavoidable skeletons in its closet.
Brown, Miller, perhaps Wilson and maybe even Rich are different.
MSU exploited their talents to further its athletic goals and fill its athletic coffers. The exchange was a free education and the promise to parents to provide guidance and a protective umbrella in this halfway house to adulthood.
For Brown and Miller, MSU became a dead-end — a tragedy for which they bear much, but not all, accountability.
We can only hope, then, that in their silence Thursday, MSU officials were contemplating the school’s role in the failure of these student-athletes, and how to prevent future tales of woe.
Sports editor Jeff Welsch is at jwelsch@dailychronicle.com or 582-2623.

I must have read a different article than crazycat. Being a former journalist, I know that you never write an article, commentary or news, without first getting your facts straight.



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Post by crazycat » Sun Jul 02, 2006 7:10 pm

My bad. I stand corrected in a big way, but I'm glad you caught my error.

Yes, it appears that Welsch wrote his story either having received Gamble's statement and choosing to ignore it, or that he didn't get it. I find the latter hard to believe.

Even if Gamble's statement came out late in the afternoon, Welsch should've been able to pull his story or re-write it at the very least.

Still Welsch's mention of Wilson and Rich aren't accusatory. However I can see your point that the story is all a wash given that he failed to read, get or acknowledge Gamble's statement.

I was wrong and apologize for my error.



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Post by profisme » Sun Jul 02, 2006 8:28 pm

Crazy,

He states that, "Never mind that all four names directly involved in a killing were, or are, connected to the school's athletic department."

Whether it was just a poor choice of words, or whether you missed this sentence, I am not sure. This phrase seems pretty accusatory to myself. It is all a matter of how you arrange the words in the sentence and which words to use. To me, the column, as it is, doesn't respond to the lack of communication by either MSU or the Atheletic Department, it is focusing on the different things that have gone wrong in the department or with people who have ever been a part of it.



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Post by crazycat » Sun Jul 02, 2006 9:25 pm

Yes, you could read it that way, but I read it as such:

"Never mind that.......connected to school's athletice department (because we (MSU) aren't going to make a statement.") So I still see that line as being directed towards the point of his column: the school not making a statement. Which I've now come to realize that the school did make a statement prior to Welsh's column and either Welsch somehow missed or more than likely ignored it and that either of those scenarios is baffling.

It's similar to: "Never mind that I cooked dinner, did the dishes, took the kids to daycare and picked them up, vacuumed and did the laundry, my wife still wouldn't let me go to poker night." So Welsch is like: What has to happen to get a statement out of MSU?

But knowing that Welsch blew it on the statement, he owes the school and his readers and apology for unloading on the school for something it didn't do.

After all that, I still think Welsch was using all those involved to underline that the school was remiss in not making a statement. I just can't bring myself to believe that Welsch would stoop so low as to accuse Wilson (esp. Wilson, who was simply the person whose locker that Miller was seen stashing the guns in) and Rich of any wrongdoing to make a name for himself. Maybe you're right and that's what he's doing, but I have a hard time with that, so call me naive, but respect my take on this story despite my failure to pick up on the fact that Welsch didn't acknowledge/see Gamble's press release.



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Post by Cat Grad » Sun Jul 02, 2006 9:41 pm

Okay, this is what my favorite president in my favorite speech of his had to say about what I see has happened:

"Of course all that I say of the orator applies with even greater force to the orator's latter-day and more influential brother, the journalist. The power of the journalist is great, but he is entitled neither to respect nor admiration because of that power unless it is used right. He can do, and often does, great good. He can do, and he often does, infinite mischief. All journalists, all writers, for the very reason that they appreciate the vast possibilities of their profession, should bear testimony against those who deeply discredit it. Offenses against taste and morals, which are bad enough in a private citizen, are infinitely worse if made into instruments for debauching the community through a newspaper. Mendacity, slander, sensationalism, inanity, vapid triviality, all are potent factors for the debauchery of the public mind and conscience. The excuse advanced for vicious writing, that the public demands it and that demand must be supplied, can no more be admitted than if it were advanced by purveyors of food who sell poisonous adulterations. In short, the good citizen in a republic must realize that the ought to possess two sets of qualities, and that neither avails without the other. He must have those qualities which make for efficiency; and that he also must have those qualities which direct the efficiency into channels for the public good." ("The Man In The Arena" Speech at the Sorbonne, Paris, France; April 23, 1910)

See, he learned a great deal during his time in Wibaux and Beach, ND :wink:



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Post by crazycat » Mon Jul 03, 2006 9:38 am

Never mind that I can’t top that, I’m not even sure I understand it. :lol:



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Post by catmom » Mon Jul 03, 2006 12:34 pm

I have had a big problem with the sports department at the chronicle for many years. I find it amazing that if you are supposed to report on a team that you should be able to put the correct name under the picture. I can't even tell you how many times they put the wrong name under JaRon's, Derrik's and Q's picture. And this was late in the season. I would have given them a break if it would have been early in the season but it was not. Is it that they just don't care about getting things right or everything they do is halfa**ed. I have had many converstations with the players about Welsch. They don't like talking to him because he never quotes them correctly. I have read articles by this paper about a certain player that I know and over 50% of the info is wrong.

In the latest article by this fellow, he mentioned that the school and boosters want to win regardless of the cost. Who is going to be the first in line to make a comment about our win/loss record quicker that this idiot. I thought that when the paper got rid of Peter Fagen that it would get someone who would at least be objective and positive about our athletic programs but it doesn't seem that way. It seems that they take such great glee in reporting anything that goes wrong and leave out the wonderful things some of our current and passed players are doing.



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Post by tetoncat » Mon Jul 03, 2006 1:34 pm

I think he also forgets that these are ex-athletes. The were no longer with the team so now they are students. Why would the administration comment any more than they did. To say that the others were directly involved is very misleading. They may be no more involved than any of us would be if someone stole our car and then hit someone. our property would be involved but not us directly. until further release from the police about invovlement he should not comment other than to say it was in their locker etc. Not exactly direct involvement. There are numerous incidents every day dealing with other students and the administration releases no more information on them than they did in this case. Once more detail is known, there may be a time for more information to come out but not in the first days of an investigation.


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