The Bobcat Nation

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2121659

During the congressional hearings this is the one guy I believed. Maybe Canseco wasn't as full of crap as some of us wanted to think. I still find it funny how these guys want us to believe they don't know how steroids are getting into their systems.

I'm surprised by this one -- I believed him as well. If he is lying, he is a very good actor.

I do accept that there are times when drug tests come out positive from things that one wouldn't expect -- we've seen a lot of Olympic stuff where cold medicine caused positive results for stimulants and things of that nature, but I certainly don't know enough about the MLB drug tests to know exactly what they are testing for or if it would be possible for a positive result from anything other than intentionally taking steroids. I imagine that if it was likely or even plausible that it wasn't a legit positive, they would have investigated alternative theories before assessing the supsension and jacking up his reputation.

This is the first big-name guy to be reported as a positve, isn't it? I read about a couple other minor guys who got suspensions, but nobody that anyone has heard of. If nothing else, I guess this is good in that it shows that MLB isn't afraid to out one of the big name guys and "good guys" (popular) of the game, so they must be serious about enforcing their policy.

I love this quote:

In remarks prepared for a conference call Monday, Palmeiro said he had accepted his punishment and could not explain how the steroids got into his body.

I guess some people will go the extra mile to protect their image- that includes blatant lies.

mquast53000 wrote:I love this quote:

In remarks prepared for a conference call Monday, Palmeiro said he had accepted his punishment and could not explain how the steroids got into his body.

I guess some people will go the extra mile to protect their image- that includes blatant lies.

LOL. I'm picturing an explanation like this:

"Well, there was that one time where I was running around the corner in the locker room...and my teammate was running the other way, and we didn't see each other...and he was carrying a hypodermic needle in his hand...and we both ran into each other, and I fell on the needle...THAT must be when it happened!"

Grizlaw wrote:

mquast53000 wrote:I love this quote:

In remarks prepared for a conference call Monday, Palmeiro said he had accepted his punishment and could not explain how the steroids got into his body.

I guess some people will go the extra mile to protect their image- that includes blatant lies.

LOL. I'm picturing an explanation like this:

"Well, there was that one time where I was running around the corner in the locker room...and my teammate was running the other way, and we didn't see each other...and he was carrying a hypodermic needle in his hand...and we both ran into each other, and I fell on the needle...THAT must be when it happened!"

or this one:

I thought that cream was Ben-Gay!!!
My personal favroite is "i thought she was an acupuncturist

I'm curious:

If a pro athlete ate at McDonald's alot, would the steroids used in cattle production these days show up as "bad" steroids?

Just a thought. I will admit I was a bit stunned by this revelation about Raffy and I am willing to accept that maybe something he was eating/using had "hidden" substances in them that showed up as positive tests.

BUT, I do believe a guy making millions to play a game should be VERY cautious about using ANYTHING that might jeopardize his playing status, so ultimately Raffy is "guilty". I'm just not sure I buy that this guy was shooting up the stuff the way Canseco was or claims...

I wish baseball would differentiate between steroids and "other" banned substances. I heard a rumor that in Palmeiro's case it was in fact steroids. When I first heard the story I wanted to believe it was one of the other banned substances like Pro Hormones. There is a big difference between the big four steroids and everything else. Baseball seems to lump them together and I think that gives the general public the wrong impression. One of our pitcher's (Twins) was supended this year and he took a pro hormone. They clled it steroids and everyone made the wrong assumption. And please don't argue that banned substances are banned substances regardless. That is like saying all crimes are equal (speeding vs armed robbery).

The other misconception is that by taking steroids you have this sudden superman like capability. Not true! Taking steroids over the long haul with the proper diet and weight training can give you an advantage. Without all those conditions being properly considered you might as well inject water. While I don't think any player should be allowed to use steroids we sometimes make the assumption that 90% of their home runs come from the "juice". That is not how it works.

Baseball’s drug testing policy has so many holes in it that a player with half a brain should be able to avoid getting caught. Also, I don’t like the fact that the Palmeirodenies ever taking any steroids, at least “knowingly.” I played football for 5 years in college and never once did a player test positive for an illegal substance and turn around and say, “I don’t know how it got into my body.” A person knows exactly how drugs get into their body. Palmeiro was using steroids. Case closed. He has been busted, and now he should be a man and admit that he is wrong. He sure isn’t the first player to use steroids, and I am sure that he won’t be the last.

I could have sworn that I got ripped up and down with extreme prejudice a couple times for just admitting that I still liked watching a player who had been accused of doing streriods. I believe there was a lot of gnashing of teeth and talk about "the children" and apocolyptic references to our society as a whole, along with questioning of my character. Strangely, I'm not seeing that same sentiment displayed on the subject when a different player is actually busted with a positive test for the same substances, and I even see theories floated to suggest that the tests might be flawed in defense of this person who is obviously not only a cheater, but apparently also a shameless liar.

Has the world shifted on its axis, or what?

I guess I'm being a bit more cynical about this than the rest of BN.

I think it's terrible he tested positive. While I may feel remorse for him personally, I do not rue the fact he tested positive for a banned substance. He made a bad decision, but now he's got to "do the time." His suspension of 10 days is too light, if you ask me.

I think his statement of "I tested positive, but don't know how they got into me" reeks of a lie to save a small amount of face.

BAC wrote:Has the world shifted on its axis, or what?

Do you feel better know, BAC?

What do they put in the VIAGRA anyway

Ponycat wrote:What do they put in the VIAGRA anyway

Speaking of which ... at least he's consistent. He's obviously a big fan of "Better living through Chemistry" in many facets of his life.

Anything to "BULK" up, if you know what I mean

Since I'm the one BAC is replying to, I'll attempt to clarify.

If Raffy was knowingly introducing banned substances into his body and then proceeded to lie to all of us about it, he is just as big a scumbag as is Barry Bonds.

I'm not forgiving Raffy; far from it. I CAN'T begin to forgive any of these overpaid prima donnas for doing anything that would jeopardize their careers in this way. But, it's obvious they've done it and some are continuing to do it.

I really was just curious if an average Joe who ate alot of beef in America these days would test positive based on the "juice" routinely used in cattle production?

Raffy is definitely guilty of being just another idiot who apparently didn't care enough about his image or baseball's image to ensure that he was "clean". That is the same comment essentially that I've made about Bonds; these guys' message is clear: I don't give a CRAP that I'm tarnishing/ruining baseball's image; I'm crying all the way to the bank...

EG: Yeah, it's just kind of funny. If I were to be a smartarse and throw it back at you like you did to me, I'd have to accuse you ad naseum of "worshipping" Raffy, and go on and on about how he is your "hero" and how you must not understand anything about how bad steroids are if you don't come out and declare Raffy to be guilty on the spot and an example of the worst of all that is evil. I realize that you were kind of worked up that day, so I can understand how the context is a bit different now than then.

It's just funny how different people react differently to the same issues based on their biases related to the people involved. I was ripped apart for not thinking that steroids was all that big of a deal relating to Bonds and that it didn't make me not want to watch him play. I still don't think it's all that big of a deal with Raffy. It's just kind of strange that he made such a direct point about lying about it. He didn't even give himself any wiggle room.

Strange that Bush came out strong saying that he believed that Raffy didn't go steroids. I'm not sure this is a talking point that any politician wants to get involved with, especially ones who were using steroids as a distracting "national issue" that elevated it from MLB to Congress. I would think that the White House would steer clear of throwing support behind any people who are likely not telling the truth.

And now you can add Ryan Franklin to the list. I find this one hard to believe as well - just look at the guy. Pretty scrawny and terrible numbers. He must not have been using the "good" stuff.

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2122665

When he testified before Congress, I thought he came across as the most believable. Now it is just really disappointing. In his statement he says he never knowingly took steroids. I read that to mean he tested positive for actual steroids and not some other banned substance. I think you would avoid using the word steroid if that isn't what you tested positive for. I am a very big believer that steroids provide a huge advantage to baseball players. Increased bat speed alone goes a long way and they are also saying it improves your eyesight. At the major league level that is huge. And for the record, I booed Giambi every time they announced his name when I was in NY. Yankee or not, I don't respect anyone that has used steroids.

PS BAC,

The biggest reason I'm not as "down" on Raffy as you claim has partially to do with the kind of player and person he is. It's just like anyone else; the bigger the jackass the person is, the more crap they take when they stumble.

Bonds is and always has been an arrogant jerk and it sickens me that he is mentioned in the same breath with Aaron, Ruth, Mays, Williams, Mantle, etc.

Palmeiro, on the other hand, always seemed to be pretty non-controversial; he just went out and did what he was paid to do without the attitude, arrogance, or hype of BB. Why do you think people are giving McGwire a relatively "free pass" when it's now pretty obvious that he too was on the juice? It's mainly because he was a nice guy and not an ass like Bonds. This would be a great lesson to ALL pro athletes if they'd care to pay attention; in this case, nice guys get treated better during the tough times than do jerks.

Does that "lessen" his offense? Not in the slightest. Is my attitude toward him different? Yes in that I never despised Palmeiro BEFORE I found out he was a cheater. Bonds only has HIMSELF to blame for the media's and the fan's attitude towards him, no matter how much he proclaims otherwise.

That's all well and good -- it's just funny to look back on your lectures to me over my lack of outrage for Bonds allegedly using steroids.

DCC2MSU wrote:When he testified before Congress, I thought he came across as the most believable. Now it is just really disappointing. In his statement he says he never knowingly took steroids. I read that to mean he tested positive for actual steroids and not some other banned substance. I think you would avoid using the word steroid if that isn't what you tested positive for. I am a very big believer that steroids provide a huge advantage to baseball players. Increased bat speed alone goes a long way and they are also saying it improves your eyesight. At the major league level that is huge. And for the record, I booed Giambi every time they announced his name when I was in NY. Yankee or not, I don't respect anyone that has used steroids.

You bring up an interesting point regarding eyesight, and one I've seen discussed by some sports writers. Is improving eyesight by external methods really cheating? Should lasic surgery be illegal, or even eyeglasses or contacts? How do you draw the line between allowable eyesight improvement and disallowed eyesight improvement?

There was some discussion about this regarding Tiger Woods getting surgery to improve his eyesight even though he already had average eyesight. Is that wrong? Interesting questions to me ... I don't have a pat answer.