The Bobcat Nation

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=2137525

I can't believe Moss would use marijuana and openly talk about it. What about the children?!

He clearly should take up binge drinking instead of smoking an occasional joint and going mellow. Alcohol is legal, it's an NFL sponsor, and it is sold in every stadium in the NFL. It's downright patriotic, really.

Moss should just say no to drugs ... except those drugs with good lobbyists.

I loved his agent's attempt at damage control. "It only referred to past use." Riiight, that's what he meant...

BAC wrote:http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=2137525

I can't believe Moss would use marijuana and openly talk about it. What about the children?!

He clearly should take up binge drinking instead of smoking an occasional joint and going mellow. Alcohol is legal, it's an NFL sponsor, and it is sold in every stadium in the NFL. It's downright patriotic, really.

Moss should just say no to drugs ... except those drugs with good lobbyists.

Grizlaw wrote: I loved his agent's attempt at damage control. "It only referred to past use." Riiight, that's what he meant...

Maybe Moss and Ricky Williams will have their own signature bongs for sale at NFL.com...

Can you imagine the smoke from a Dolphins-Raiders game?

This must be the most stunning, unforeseen admission in the history of sports!!!

What's next? MJ was/is a compulsive gambler? James Worthy was an adulterer? Barry Bonds used steroids?

Say it isn't so...

The only way I can respond to Moss's addmision is:

"What a complete Moron"

I hope if the league suspends him, they tack on a "being a Moron penalty" extra game for cavalierly admitting on national TV he is breaking the substance abuse policy!!

I just love how SportsCenter and all the other TV shows are playing this up as some sort of huge shocking relevation, as though it's major news that some NFL players smoke pot.

mslacat wrote:The only way I can respond to Moss's addmision is:

"What a complete Moron"

I hope if the league suspends him, they tack on a "being a Moron penalty" extra game for cavalierly admitting on national TV he is breaking the substance abuse policy!!

Or maybe it should make us pause and wonder why pot is included in the NFL substance "abuse" policy. It apparently doesn't adversely impact his ability to do his job, so what's the real problem?

If he admitted he cracked open a six pack after practice, he would be held up as a beacon of the American blue collar work ethic. He admits that he mellows out with pot infrequently during the offseason, and suddenly he's a bad guy.

We have some strange laws and social norms in this country. The proverbial church ladies that drove us to prohibition in the 1920s still have more power in this country than we would like to admit.

What I really find funny is the media types (mostly right wing talk show hosts who make no mention of Rush Limbaugh in the conversation) instantly proclaim that Moss is "addicted" to pot based only on this interview (despite the amazing fact that he's never been punished for testing positive for drugs during the season). They like to promote the simple-minded idea that it is impossible to do pot (or any drug other than alcohol or nicotine, strangely) without being instantly and uncontrollably addicted, so that Moss has a problem and is just in denial, and what about the children, won't somebody please think about the children!

It's just funny how people are so quick to condemn things that they know nothing at all about except for their own ideological propoganda. I know a LOT of very successful doctors, lawyers, CPAs, etc., etc., that use pot recreationally without any adverse affects whatsoever. In fact, they come out ahead versus Joe Six Pack because they don't get hangovers, and it's not addictive like alcohol.

Maybe Randy Moss will donate some cash to the Libertarian Party so some reasonable drug laws can be promoted with a louder voice in this country. It would be nice to get rid of drug violence and nanny state infringements on personal freedoms in one fell swoop.

The legalization of marijuana is another issue BAC that I think I can infer your position on. , however, as the laws stand now it is illegal so there is a problem with him openly admitting to using it no matter how "infrequently" that may be. I think this is similar to your comments about steroids being no less advantageous for an athlete than lasik eye surgery. One is illegal or a banned substance one is not. Until the laws are modified and marijuana can be purchased at the local liquor store it is no different than him admitting to crack, meth, cocaine, etc which are all listed on the NFL substance abuse list.

Bay Area Cat wrote:...Or maybe it should make us pause and wonder why pot is included in the NFL substance "abuse" policy. It apparently doesn't adversely impact his ability to do his job, so what's the real problem?...

Point 1: I guess we really don't KNOW that it doesn't adversely impact his ability to do his job; how can you claim that, BAC? This is a guy who's admitted to being a part-time "slacker" on the field. This is a guy who walked out on his team while a game was still in question. This is a guy whose past is LITTERED with bad decisions. I can just as easily claim that marijuana use IS partially responsible for Randy's antics as you can claim they don't affect him. Plus, who can say that his stats wouldn't be EVEN MORE IMPRESSIVE if Randy didn't like his weed?

Point 2: WYCAT is EXACTLY right. As long as a substance or activity is ILLEGAL, I would expect the various Player's Unions to agree with their league owners to BAN said substance or activity.

Point 3: If you had kids, BAC, would your stance in favor of marijuana be the same as it is today? If so, then I guess you wouldn't care how many "star athletes" fessed up to using weed. I'm not going to claim that a kid will now START using weed because of Moss's confession, but there are no doubt going to be a bunch of CURRENT users who just got another reason NOT to stop. I know of a significant # of kids here at Flathead High who've pissed away decent athletic & academic careers because they were too interested in getting high. I'd be willing to bet that the # of kids that fall into that category is far greater than the # of successful folks you claim to know; no way to prove either side, but I HAVE seen far too many kids "waste" their High School years because of dope.

I agree that it is illegal, and therefore falls into a different category than alcohol or tobacco from a legal perspective. I'm just making the argument that, from a purely practical (which excludes any mention of laws for this particular issue) perspective, this whole issue is silly.

Yeah, I'm pretty easy to read in terms of my views on our brilliant "War on Drugs." I'm just not a big fan of government creating lucrative tax-free markets for criminals (drug dealers and trafficers) and making an entire class of victim-free prisoners (drug users) simply because of the tastes and social stigmas placed on our country by those in power that make no real sense from an analytical perspective.

El_Gato wrote:Point 3: If you had kids, BAC, would your stance in favor of marijuana be the same as it is today? If so, then I guess you wouldn't care how many "star athletes" fessed up to using weed. I'm not going to claim that a kid will now START using weed because of Moss's confession, but there are no doubt going to be a bunch of CURRENT users who just got another reason NOT to stop. I know of a significant # of kids here at Flathead High who've pissed away decent athletic & academic careers because they were too interested in getting high. I'd be willing to bet that the # of kids that fall into that category is far greater than the # of successful folks you claim to know; no way to prove either side, but I HAVE seen far too many kids "waste" their High School years because of dope.

If I had kids, I would be their parent and guide their behavior and expose them to the risks of any decisions they might make, and I certainly wouldn't worry too much about what Randy Moss did. Randy Moss is an adult who is allowed to drink alcohol, buy cigarettes, drive a car, and all other potentially dangerous things that adults are allowed to do that kids are not. Smoking pot falls into that same category (although right now it is actually no less legal for a child to smoke pot than it is for an adult -- what message does that send to kids?). Randy Moss is an entertainer, just like Britny Spears or David Hasselhoff -- what they do in their silly self-indulgent personal lives is not a huge concern of mine, and it won't be one of my kids, either.

Do you know any kids who pissed away their careers drinking or smoking? Are you in favor of banning alcohol and tobacco? What's next? Outlaw video games because little Johnny is getting a fat ass and his parents aren't forcing him to get outside to play?

I thought you were a Libertarian? Libertarians are against the entire concept of the nanny state. Personal accountability and freedoms ... government not telling adults what they can and can't do as long as they don't harm anyone else ... I love those ideals.

And I have read that roughly 70% of Americans have tried pot (feel free to fact check to determine a range of reliability of that figure), so I'm pretty sure that the number that came through it just fine is way higher than the number who end up as the stereotypical pothead burnouts. It's like comparing the number of people who have ever drank to the number who end up as alcoholic burnouts. The only difference is that alcohol is actually physically addictive (along with nicotine, one of the most addictive drugs out there), whereas pot is only habit forming.

BAC

I do not factor in whether pot is legal or not into the argument. If someone offered me a job for a handful of millions of dollard and one of the conditions of employment was that I could not drink alcohol or eat pizza I damn sure would not go on HBO and tell Byant Gumble hey I might have a beer and Pizza!!

mslacat wrote:BAC

I do not factor in whether pot is legal or not into the argument. If someone offered me a job for a handful of millions of dollard and one of the conditions of employment was that I could not drink alcohol or eat pizza I damn sure would not go on HBO and tell Byant Gumble hey I might have a beer and Pizza!!

Good point, and I totally agree. Rules are rules if you sign on the dotted line, and he should have just said nothing about it and left it alone. He hadn't run afoul with the testing program, so he should have shut up while he was still ahead of the game.

From a social standpoint, though, this story just brings a lot of the abusdities of our laws and social stigmas into clear view. I'm sure Randy Moss probably won't go down in history as a beacon of positive social change, but maybe getting this topic out there will make more people think about it and evolve from the "It's illegal, so therefore it's bad, but not very bad actually" position to really examining whether it makes sense for it to be illegal.

But in terms of Randy Moss making life easier for Randy Moss, he would have been well-advised to toss out a strong "no comment" to any questions about pot use.

Bay Area Cat wrote:The only difference is that alcohol is actually physically addictive (along with nicotine, one of the most addictive drugs out there), whereas pot is only habit forming.

BAC, You couldn't be more wrong on this issue. You can site whatever journal you want, medical or not but I could give you the names and addresses of at least 50 repeat violators of felony probation and 50 Chemical Dependency counselors who will tell you that marijuana and more specifically THC is absolutely addictive. Whether it is more addictive than alcohol, hard to say, has a lot to do with physiology. But saying that pot isn't addictive is even more of an urban legend than saying steroids can't help you hit a baseball farther.

I'm not an expert on this, but my understanding of the addictiveness of pot has always been that it is not *physically* addictive, meaning that when a regular pot user stops smoking, his body does not go through withdrawal the way it does when, say, an alcoholic stops drinking or a heroin user stops using heroin. It is mentally addictive, though, in the sense that it is pleasurable, and thus those who use it a few times tend to keep on using, and from a psychological standpoint, might have a hard time stopping.

Maybe someone with a little more expertise can say it better? This is just my elementary understanding (and I've never even smoked pot, incidentally).

I think what you stated is pretty accurate. BAC is this is what you meant I appologize. Actually the mentally and physically addictive issue is a big debate these days with meth. We seem to be able to get them over ther physical addiction but the mental addiction just doesn't seem to go away and one relapse and the physical part is back where it started.

I am pretty sure that that NFL knew Randy uses marijuana. When he decided to run over that meter maid in Minneapolis a couple of years ago they found marijuana residue and marijuana paraphernalia in his car- a friend’s no doubt . I don’t think the league really cared then, but now since he went on national TV and said that he enjoys smoking the “weed” the NFL will have to take action.

PS- BAC the more you post on this topic the more I think you have spent some significant time in Missoula.

http://www.theantidrug.com/drug_info/dr ... ijuana.asp

Researchers have found that THC changes the way in which sensory information gets into and is acted on by the hippocampus. This is a component of the brain's limbic system that is crucial for learning, memory, and the integration of sensory experiences with emotions and motivations. Investigations have shown that THC suppresses neurons in the information-processing system of the hippocampus. In addition, researchers have discovered that learned behaviors, which depend on the hippocampus, also deteriorate.

Ponycat wrote:I think what you stated is pretty accurate. BAC is this is what you meant I appologize. Actually the mentally and physically addictive issue is a big debate these days with meth. We seem to be able to get them over ther physical addiction but the mental addiction just doesn't seem to go away and one relapse and the physical part is back where it started.

Actually, yeah, what Grizlaw said ...

Unfortunately, I have way too much classroom exposure to discussions regarding the physical and mental effects of various drugs, and what he said is essentially the same as my understanding and terminology of addictive (physical withdrawl) vs. habit forming (mental/emotional craving).

Ponycat wrote:

Bay Area Cat wrote:The only difference is that alcohol is actually physically addictive (along with nicotine, one of the most addictive drugs out there), whereas pot is only habit forming.

BAC, You couldn't be more wrong on this issue. You can site whatever journal you want, medical or not but I could give you the names and addresses of at least 50 repeat violators of felony probation and 50 Chemical Dependency counselors who will tell you that marijuana and more specifically THC is absolutely addictive. Whether it is more addictive than alcohol, hard to say, has a lot to do with physiology. But saying that pot isn't addictive is even more of an urban legend than saying steroids can't help you hit a baseball farther.

I have to say that I agree with BAC on this but one thing that many people neglect to think about is that pot hasn't been researched as long on its long terms effects and addictive nature compared to tobacco. In the grand scheme of things, they will find that pot will be just as physically dangerous as tobacco. The research on pot is still many years behind what has been found with cigarettes. Cigarettes still seem to be doing pretty well world wide despite the dangers that we all know they can cause.

Legalize it, plain and simple. Regardless of what we learn about it, it's going to be as ubiquitous as cigarettes and alcohol in the next 20 years.