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Gov Schweitzer....get a life

Posted: Tue Sep 06, 2005 10:17 am
by Hell's Bells
I read how our govenor who spend lord knows how many years running a ranch and working in the oil industry over in saudi doesnt understand simple supply and demand. (supply) we have 8 oil refineries, 4 of which deal with gas, get wiped out in louisana, including countless oil ships. *demand* doesnt change, the south does nead oil gov. I know we have oil refineries here but the price of oil is being driven up by not having as much as we normally do to keep the prices where they are.

if he wants to make sence he should say the cabal called opec should lower the price of oil by increasing production of oil.

Posted: Tue Sep 06, 2005 10:18 am
by SonomaCat
Link?

Re: Gov Schweitzer....get a life

Posted: Tue Sep 06, 2005 10:18 am
by wbtfg
Hell's Bells wrote:I read how our govenor who spend lord knows how many years running a ranch and working in the oil industry over in saudi doesnt understand simple supply and demand. (supply) we have 8 oil refineries, 4 of which deal with gas, get wiped out in louisana, including countless oil ships. *demand* doesnt change, the south does nead oil gov. I know we have oil refineries here but the price of oil is being driven up by not having as much as we normally do to keep the prices where they are.

if he wants to make sence he should say the cabal called opec should lower the price of oil by increasing production of oil.
When did fighting to keep prices down for the citizens of your state become a bad thing. I realize that a lot of this is probably posturing, but I'd prefer that than just saying there's nothing we can do about it.

Posted: Tue Sep 06, 2005 10:31 am
by Hell's Bells
cant find a link to the article online.....

Posted: Wed Sep 07, 2005 2:09 pm
by Ponycat
I saw these comments as well, and couldn't believe he actually said them.

On a side not however, I was just up in Glasgow and 90 octane with Ethanol was 11 cents cheaper than 85.5 octane without Ethanol. When is the date the bill from the last session that says Ethanol will be required go into effect.

Posted: Wed Sep 07, 2005 2:10 pm
by Hell's Bells
Ponycat wrote:I saw these comments as well, and couldn't believe he actually said them.

On a side not however, I was just up in Glasgow and 90 octane with Ethanol was 11 cents cheaper than 85.5 octane without Ethanol. When is the date the bill from the last session that says Ethanol will be required go into effect.
ill bet you it is somtime next year 0 possibly the 1st

Posted: Wed Sep 07, 2005 9:17 pm
by Grizlaw
If nobody has a link, can anyone at least describe what Schweitzer actually said? I'm curious, and all I got from HB's post was that he said some things that run counter to the basic rules of supply & demand; can anyone be a little more specific?

Posted: Wed Sep 07, 2005 11:38 pm
by wbtfg
Grizlaw wrote:If nobody has a link, can anyone at least describe what Schweitzer actually said? I'm curious, and all I got from HB's post was that he said some things that run counter to the basic rules of supply & demand; can anyone be a little more specific?
I think this is the article he's referring to....

Schweitzer: Refineries are gouging consumers; Industry leader calls foul

THE ASSOCIATED PRESS & JAMES E. LARCOMBE Tribune Business Editor
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HELENA — Gov. Brian Schweitzer is criticizing Montana oil refineries, saying some have raised prices for gasoline as much as 50 cents a gallon since Hurricane Katrina, despite no evidence that their own production costs have risen.

"Even though their cost of production hasn't gone up one penny, they're raising the price 30, 40, even 50 cents," he said. "I think that's an outrage."

The top manager of the Montana Refining Co. in Great Falls disputed Schweitzer's statements, saying his refinery's price increases barely cover its costs.

Hurricane Katrina, which struck the Gulf Coast early Monday, caused major damage to oil-production facilities in the Gulf of Mexico and the South. Since then, gasoline prices across the country have been climbing steadily — in some areas by the hour.

Schweitzer, however, said refineries in Montana get most of their crude oil from Alberta, Wyoming and Montana, and the cost of that oil has not risen since Katrina struck.

Montana refineries shouldn't be affected by developments in the Gulf, and therefore have no reason to raise prices so dramatically, he said.

"I'm calling on them to be good neighbors and roll back prices to the same prices that (they) had last week," he said.

Montana Refining's Leland Griffin disputed Schweitzer's allegations. calling them "rash statements."

"He says our raw materials costs haven't gone up and that's not true," the Great Falls refinery manager said. "Our raw materials cost during the past week have gone up significantly, $5 or $6 per barrel."

Refinery officials have said Canadian producers base their prices on international markets which reflect the problems in the Gulf Coast.

Montana Refining raises its wholesale price by five cents per gallon for every $1 dollar rise in its crude oil costs. The refinery has increased its wholesale price by 30 cents in the past week, in line with cost increases of 30 to 35 cents, Griffin said.

The Great Falls refinery, the state's smallest, doesn't have a large stockpile of crude oil or gasoline. Many refineries try to build supplies of gasoline in early summer.

"There isn't a whole bunch sitting out there that we are rising prices on," Griffin said. "Generally, by Labor Day, we are reaching the bottom."

The refinery is selling its entire inventory of gasoline each day and is limiting the amount it sells to each of customers.

"We are out of gasoline absolutely every day," Griffin said. "The only way we have to price things is based on how much its costing us to refine it that day."

The Great Falls refinery does average the price of crude oil it uses when making gasoline and other products because it's impossible to attach an exact cost to oil in big storage tanks that receive oil in different shipments.

The low seasonal inventory and hurricane disruption, coupled with increased buying by consumers fearing more price hikes, could create supply problems.

"The demand is higher than the amount of production," Griffin said. Whether we have people waiting in lines, it all depends on how the public behaves. If we have people hoarding, we may well have."

Representatives of two of the largest refineries, Cenex Harvest States in Laurel and Conoco-Phillips in Billings, did not immediately respond to telephone messages left by The Associated Press on Friday.

The Billings and Laurel refineries produce the majority of gasoline consumed in Montana.

In a news release, however, the Montana Petroleum Marketers & Convenience Store Association, said retailers and wholesalers are seeing "accelerated price increases" and have to plan for "replacement" costs for future gasoline deliveries.

"The price increases occurring at the gasoline pump are in response to daily — or more recently more often — price increases at the wholesale level," the group said in a statement.

"The association does not condone or support price gouging of any nature, and it is not aware of any location that has operated in this manner," the group added.

Schweitzer said he spoke to local managers at some of the refineries, and they gave no indication that they would be lowering prices.

The governor said he has asked Attorney General Mike McGrath to investigate the rise in gas prices.

AAA, the nonprofit auto group, urged motorists to have patience in pricey times.

"Since supply can only be replenished when all refineries and pipelines are running at full speed and it is uncertain when that will occur, demand must ease to shift the imbalance and calm surging fuel prices," Montana AAA said in a statement.

Griffin had a similar message.

"This thing will pass," he said. It might take a few weeks, but it will pass."

Posted: Thu Sep 08, 2005 8:20 am
by Cat-theotherwhitemeat
How about Schweitzy offering up the former Glasgow air force base to the hurricane victims when it's not even his to offer. There is litigation going on right now about who even owns what up there and here's our publicity hungry governor trying to make the national papers again.

Thanks Judy! :oops:

Posted: Thu Sep 08, 2005 8:47 am
by Grizlaw
wbtfg wrote:Schweitzer, however, said refineries in Montana get most of their crude oil from Alberta, Wyoming and Montana, and the cost of that oil has not risen since Katrina struck.

Montana refineries shouldn't be affected by developments in the Gulf, and therefore have no reason to raise prices so dramatically, he said.
Ok, this gets my vote for "least intellectually advanced quote by a politician in a decade (or at least since Martz was in office)."

Does he really not understand that oil is a limited resource, and that the market for it is global? This is no less ridiculous than arguing that U.S. oil producers and refiners should not be affected by anything that happens in the Middle East. He either doesn't understand economics (which is scary), or he's trying to score points by being intellectually dishonest (which is more likely, but is exactly what I despise about many politicians).

Posted: Thu Sep 08, 2005 9:02 am
by grizbeer
In Schweitzer's defense I think he got his logic from the refineries themselves. If a refinery goes down that serves the NW and the prices go up you will hear from the oil companies that our oil comes from regional refineries, so even though they pay $.50 less in Texas and LA it is because gas is local. That has long been the refineries stance, he is really just throwing it back at them, right or wrong.

Posted: Thu Sep 08, 2005 9:14 am
by Grizlaw
grizbeer wrote:In Schweitzer's defense I think he got his logic from the refineries themselves. If a refinery goes down that serves the NW and the prices go up you will hear from the oil companies that our oil comes from regional refineries, so even though they pay $.50 less in Texas and LA it is because gas is local. That has long been the refineries stance, he is really just throwing it back at them, right or wrong.
Yeah, there's some fairness to that, I suppose. I just don't buy the idea that the markets truly are local (regardless of whether it's Schweitzer making the argument or the oil companies).

Even if producers do, in fact, serve local customers, the fact remains that they *could* choose not to if they can command a higher price for their product elsewhere. If refineries in the Gulf Coast region go down and market prices rise to the point that Montana refineries can ship their product to the Gulf Coast more profitably than they can sell it in Montana, then it makes economic sense for them to either ship their product to the Gulf Coast or raise their prices in Montana.