The Bobcat Nation

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What say ye?

Just let her take an art class and be a TA and everything will be just peachy.....

I really can't feel sorry for her. I should go back and sue my college for "allowing" me to drink too much beer!

Everyone gets a trophy

There's no expectation that every kid in the country can play NFL football. There's no expectation that every kid in the country can paint the Mona Lisa. As a society, we are willing to acknowledge that not everyone has the same talent level when it comes to gross and fine motor function.

Hell, there's no expectation that every kid in the country can write two novels a year, so there's at least some willingness to acknowledge that not everyone has the same level of intellectual talent. So why do we insist that everyone should be able to master college-level courses of study--and then if they can't, that there's something wrong with the college. There's this crazy idea that a few people are exceptionally smart, and then everyone else should be above-average. Obviously, this idea can't possibly reflect reality. There are people who don't really have the intellectual capacity to master high school, and you know what? I think that's okay. The world needs ditch-diggers and short-order cooks and NFL running backs, too. (I'm not trying to insult the people who do those jobs, I'm just saying that I know of people with below-average intelligence who have been successful at them. With the exception of NFL running back, I know of very intelligent people who have chosen to do them, too.)

Bottom line: I don't think we necessarily need everyone in the country to be college-educated to have a nice country.


With that said, if this girl finds taking a math class stressful, she's in for a miserable time trying to make a living as an artist. That $#!% is really hard to do.

BBnG, you and I agree. So why is it that the government keeps giving more and more student aid to students who have no business being in college in the first place? especially when those subsidies are causing the price of college to escalate which is an attempt to keep demand in check due to the finite space available, which is only hurting those who do belong in college and aren't eligible for these grants who have to work their way through school.

It's a paradox, that's for sure.

Students are sissys already, why when I went to school we had to get 192 credits to graduate, going uphill both ways in the snow. Now they only need 128 credits. I think that this girl should get credit for original thought, she is suing a private school for having standards. Standards are clearly hogwash. I would be in favor of what I would call a team member degree, where if you apply to college you would get a degree.

Wish I were an attorney... This is rife with possibility for a class action suit. (Heck, I can even join in, or wait, maybe I passed a class or 2 with a D before buckling down, will also have to name Bridger Bowl in the suit as they were the ones that sold me the season pass in that time frame when classes were secondary..)

If she truly does suffer from a disability where her brain just can't process math (and it's not simply just a matter of her not studying hard enough), yet she has a strong aptitude for graphic design, it would be a shame if she wouldn't be able to pursue the career in graphic design simply because of a somewhat arbitrary requirement that she pass those math classes.

I could see a school granting an exception in a situation like this, once they've satisfied themselves that she really has tried hard enough and that her shortcoming are legitimately due to a specific disability that impacts her ability to do math. I don't like the idea of a lawsuit, though, as it seems to me that both parties knew the requirements from the onset, and that this is the sort of thing that probably should have been worked out in advance.

Based on my limited understanding of these kinds of disabilties, people can be very talented and very intelligent but still can't excel in certain skills due to their brains just not having quite the right wiring. So to the extent that they can excel in society in the areas in which their brain does work really well, more power to them.

That said, I hope that even without a college degree that she would still be able to excel in the field of graphic design, although I fully realize that not having a degree will make her career goals far harder to achieve.

Bay Area Cat wrote:If she truly does suffer from a disability where her brain just can't process math (and it's not simply just a matter of her not studying hard enough), yet she has a strong aptitude for graphic design, it would be a shame if she wouldn't be able to pursue the career in graphic design simply because of a somewhat arbitrary requirement that she pass those math classes.

I could see a school granting an exception in a situation like this, once they've satisfied themselves that she really has tried hard enough and that her shortcoming are legitimately due to a specific disability that impacts her ability to do math. I don't like the idea of a lawsuit, though, as it seems to me that both parties knew the requirements from the onset, and that this is the sort of thing that probably should have been worked out in advance.

Based on my limited understanding of these kinds of disabilties, people can be very talented and very intelligent but still can't excel in certain skills due to their brains just not having quite the right wiring. So to the extent that they can excel in society in the areas in which their brain does work really well, more power to them.

That said, I hope that even without a college degree that she would still be able to excel in the field of graphic design, although I fully realize that not having a degree will make her career goals far harder to achieve.

I see what your saying but if she truly suffers from this why wouldn't she have applied for the waiver ahead of time instead of after failing the class?

LTown Cat wrote:I see what your saying but if she truly suffers from this why wouldn't she have applied for the waiver ahead of time instead of after failing the class?

Yeah, I agree ... that's essentially what I was trying to say in the second paragraph.

Maybe she thought that if she tried really, really hard, she could overcome her disability? I don't know. If this is a sincere disability, then I feel really bad for the girl and everyone involved -- it's kind of a no-win situation.

In my mind, it's a bit of a murky situation. First off I think there's no grounds for a lawsuit, and she has no chance of winning.

However, this story makes me wonder how many other student are/have been out there who are in the exact same situation and are racking up debt with no chance of ever graduating? Are colleges accepting students who they know will have virtually no chance of being able to complete the degree requirements? I wonder what her high school and ACT/SAT scores looked like. If it was obvious that she was inadequately prepared to pass college math, why did Rocky accept her?

Also, I think waivers can be a good option, I'm not sure they can grant very many/any as the federal accreditation process is pretty strict and will drop the hammer on a school if they find out they are allowing students to graduate with a Bachelor's degree without passing a math class.

Ideally, a student in her situation should probably start off at a 2-year college to get her math and general ed requirements out of the way and then transfer to a 4-year college to complete her bachelor's degree.

wbtfg wrote:I wonder what her high school and ACT/SAT scores looked like.

The article mentioned that her SAT math scores were really low -- I think it said in the bottom 5%?

Bay Area Cat wrote:

wbtfg wrote:I wonder what her high school and ACT/SAT scores looked like.

The article mentioned that her SAT math scores were really low -- I think it said in the bottom 5%?

Yeah....I just read the linked article, and noticed. I read the article earlier in the week, but it must have been the abridged teaser that they put out the day before. It's been updated significantly since I first read it.

Bottom line....lawsuit is going nowhere. Rocky should re-examine their admission standards.

I'm going to sue MSU because clearly Chem 131 and 132 were weed out classes that dealt more with climatology than Chemistry applicable to my field, which at the time was pre-vet. Getting an A in Bio Chem and Organic Chem was not enough to offset the C's I EARNED, not received, EARNED in the other Chem courses so I was forced out of the program. I would have made a great vet....


Yeah, BULLSNOT, life happens and life's not fair. I'm very happy where I'm at now. Life is a moving target and don't get too bogged down in the details otherwise you'll forget to enjoy the ride.

So she can't pass a math class, so what, if its that important to you, find a way to pass it, because THAT'S HOW LIFE IN THE REAL WORLD WORKS. Disability or not, get it done.

LongTimeCatFan wrote:I'm going to sue MSU because clearly Chem 131 and 132 were weed out classes that dealt more with climatology than Chemistry applicable to my field, which at the time was pre-vet. Getting an A in Bio Chem and Organic Chem was not enough to offset the C's I EARNED, not received, EARNED in the other Chem courses so I was forced out of the program. I would have made a great vet....


Yeah, BULLSNOT, life happens and life's not fair. I'm very happy where I'm at now. Life is a moving target and don't get too bogged down in the details otherwise you'll forget to enjoy the ride.

So she can't pass a math class, so what, if its that important to you, find a way to pass it, because THAT'S HOW LIFE IN THE REAL WORLD WORKS. Disability or not, get it done.

I guess everybody in this thread would then disagree with your decision to sue MSU, just as everybody in this thread has disagreed with her decision to sue Rocky.

Bay Area Cat wrote:

LongTimeCatFan wrote:I'm going to sue MSU because clearly Chem 131 and 132 were weed out classes that dealt more with climatology than Chemistry applicable to my field, which at the time was pre-vet. Getting an A in Bio Chem and Organic Chem was not enough to offset the C's I EARNED, not received, EARNED in the other Chem courses so I was forced out of the program. I would have made a great vet....


Yeah, BULLSNOT, life happens and life's not fair. I'm very happy where I'm at now. Life is a moving target and don't get too bogged down in the details otherwise you'll forget to enjoy the ride.

So she can't pass a math class, so what, if its that important to you, find a way to pass it, because THAT'S HOW LIFE IN THE REAL WORLD WORKS. Disability or not, get it done.

I guess everybody in this thread would then disagree with your decision to sue MSU, just as everybody in this thread has disagreed with her decision to sue Rocky.

I am guessing that LTCF would also disagree with his decision to sue MSU.

BLACKnBLUEnGOLD wrote:

Bay Area Cat wrote:

LongTimeCatFan wrote:I'm going to sue MSU because clearly Chem 131 and 132 were weed out classes that dealt more with climatology than Chemistry applicable to my field, which at the time was pre-vet. Getting an A in Bio Chem and Organic Chem was not enough to offset the C's I EARNED, not received, EARNED in the other Chem courses so I was forced out of the program. I would have made a great vet....


Yeah, BULLSNOT, life happens and life's not fair. I'm very happy where I'm at now. Life is a moving target and don't get too bogged down in the details otherwise you'll forget to enjoy the ride.

So she can't pass a math class, so what, if its that important to you, find a way to pass it, because THAT'S HOW LIFE IN THE REAL WORLD WORKS. Disability or not, get it done.

I guess everybody in this thread would then disagree with your decision to sue MSU, just as everybody in this thread has disagreed with her decision to sue Rocky.

I am guessing that LTCF would also disagree with his decision to sue MSU.

Huh..... Ya think????

LOL

BLACKnBLUEnGOLD wrote:I am guessing that LTCF would also disagree with his decision to sue MSU.

Yep, LTCF is included in "everybody" in that sentence.

Hey I just thought of a solution here. She should transfer to EWU.

LongTimeCatFan wrote:Hey I just thought of a solution here. She should transfer to EWU.

NICE!

LongTimeCatFan wrote:Hey I just thought of a solution here. She should transfer to EWU.

grizzh8r wrote:

LongTimeCatFan wrote:Hey I just thought of a solution here. She should transfer to EWU.

NICE!

OUCH!!!!!