The Bobcat Nation

I try and understand the motivation of wanting to murder an Elk or a Deer but when someone buys a license to kill a Bison or a Grizzly Bear I wonder how someone can be so desperate to kill something large so they can compensate for whatever lack of manhood they have left. Killing something as majestic and scarce as a Grizzly Bear or a Bison cannot be considered normal behavior. And then to call it hunting! Lets see, you go up and hand the Bison a carrot (or whatever), pet it a few times and then blow it's brains out. Thats not hunting! What can posses anyone to actually WANT to kill one of these animals?

http://www.nps.gov/yell/safetyvideos.htm

these are defenseless animals?

I applied for the buffalo hunt because buffalo is the best tasting meat available.

gtapp

We would love to transplant some real Grizzlies bears to Minnesota. There are a lot of tasty humans for the bears to eat.

BobCatFan wrote:gtapp

We would love to transplant some real Grizzlies bears to Minnesota. There are a lot of tasty humans for the bears to eat.

I would love that. I go to Glacier every year so I can at least see a few. I spend a few weeks around Yellowstone each year but have never seen a Grizzly there. I wish we had Grizzlies (the real ones) in MN but no chance of that. My wife won't go to Glacier with me because I require NO noise so we can get as close as possible. So yes, I will probably be the one that gets eaten (very ironic isn't it).

I dont want to argue your views, cause you are entitled to your opinion. I just think that people realized that the numbers needed to be kept in check. I dont want to see buffalo starve to death, and the people that are drawing these tags are hunting them very humanely. One shot, one kill, dropped right where he stood. I think it was a good thing

gtapp wrote:I try and understand the motivation of wanting to murder an Elk or a Deer but when someone buys a license to kill a Bison or a Grizzly Bear I wonder how someone can be so desperate to kill something large so they can compensate for whatever lack of manhood they have left. Killing something as majestic and scarce as a Grizzly Bear or a Bison cannot be considered normal behavior. And then to call it hunting! Lets see, you go up and hand the Bison a carrot (or whatever), pet it a few times and then blow it's brains out. Thats not hunting! What can posses anyone to actually WANT to kill one of these animals?

First, we've been "murdering" animals for thousands or millions of years--depending upon your worldview.

You don't consider stalking, shooting, and then carrying out the animal as hunting, but apparently the Native American practice of scaring the herd to plummet hundred of feet passes as hunting?

What gives?

gtapp wrote:I try and understand the motivation of wanting to murder an Elk or a Deer but when someone buys a license to kill a Bison or a Grizzly Bear I wonder how someone can be so desperate to kill something large so they can compensate for whatever lack of manhood they have left. Killing something as majestic and scarce as a Grizzly Bear or a Bison cannot be considered normal behavior. And then to call it hunting! Lets see, you go up and hand the Bison a carrot (or whatever), pet it a few times and then blow it's brains out. Thats not hunting! What can posses anyone to actually WANT to kill one of these animals?

while im not really anti or pro-hunting, i do agree with you tapp. it seems really dumb to me too. i guess if they fear there are to many bison, then i can understand killing them. but why not just have a park ranger or 2 go blast about 20 a day for a week or so and call it good. it's not hunting when the animal just lays in the grass with humans 15 yards away! also, for anyone familiar with bridger creek golf course, and are looking for a good hunt, kill two birds with one stone on hole 15! after you send your tee shot in the water on this short par three, pull out your rifle tucked into your golf back, and blast a couple of the bison right off your cart! damn double-bogey!

'93HonoluluCat wrote:

gtapp wrote:I try and understand the motivation of wanting to murder an Elk or a Deer but when someone buys a license to kill a Bison or a Grizzly Bear I wonder how someone can be so desperate to kill something large so they can compensate for whatever lack of manhood they have left. Killing something as majestic and scarce as a Grizzly Bear or a Bison cannot be considered normal behavior. And then to call it hunting! Lets see, you go up and hand the Bison a carrot (or whatever), pet it a few times and then blow it's brains out. Thats not hunting! What can posses anyone to actually WANT to kill one of these animals?

First, we've been "murdering" animals for thousands or millions of years--depending upon your worldview.

You don't consider stalking, shooting, and then carrying out the animal as hunting, but apparently the Native American practice of scaring the herd to plummet hundred of feet passes as hunting?

What gives?

Not to fond of the NA practices either but at least the numbers were much higher in that era and they could argue they needed to hunt for food. We have grocery stores now, go buy some Buffalo!

[quote=

it seems really dumb to me too. i guess if they fear there are to many bison, then i can understand killing them. but why not just have a park ranger or 2 go blast about 20 a day for a week or so and call it good. it's not hunting when the animal just lays in the grass with humans 15 yards away! [/quote]

Maybe this is why the bison were nearly elimated in 1870's & 1880's. Bison are stupid and Bison do not have a fear of predators. The herd will protect the others and chase off any predator. A wolf pack will try but they can not not take down a healthly adult when it is part of the herd.

The Park Rangers or USDA Rangers have been shooting the Bison each year when they cross into Montana or Wyoming. Montana & Wyoming have been shooting the Bison to protect each states' cattle industry from brusoclous (SP). Have the Bison learned to fear man. No. They are stupid animals.

MMMMMMMM Bison

Made some great Bison burgers just last week YUMMY!!!!!!

Bison is great tasting, would love a freezer full.


gary - didn't know you were a PETA guy.

as for the Grizzlies - well, how about we just rid Montana of the ones that come out of Missoula. I'd be happy to get rid of that population. Oh - we beat them, so may be they'll go away on their own now.

briannell wrote:MMMMMMMM Bison

Made some great Bison burgers just last week YUMMY!!!!!!

Bison is great tasting, would love a freezer full.


gary - didn't know you were a PETA guy.

as for the Grizzlies - well, how about we just rid Montana of the ones that come out of Missoula. I'd be happy to get rid of that population. Oh - we beat them, so may be they'll go away on their own now.

PETA?????????? I am definetely not PETA. Now my wife is PETA! Those people are nuts and a little too radical for me!

gtapp wrote:

'93HonoluluCat wrote:

gtapp wrote:I try and understand the motivation of wanting to murder an Elk or a Deer but when someone buys a license to kill a Bison or a Grizzly Bear I wonder how someone can be so desperate to kill something large so they can compensate for whatever lack of manhood they have left. Killing something as majestic and scarce as a Grizzly Bear or a Bison cannot be considered normal behavior. And then to call it hunting! Lets see, you go up and hand the Bison a carrot (or whatever), pet it a few times and then blow it's brains out. Thats not hunting! What can posses anyone to actually WANT to kill one of these animals?

First, we've been "murdering" animals for thousands or millions of years--depending upon your worldview.

You don't consider stalking, shooting, and then carrying out the animal as hunting, but apparently the Native American practice of scaring the herd to plummet hundred of feet passes as hunting?

What gives?

Not to fond of the NA practices either but at least the numbers were much higher in that era and they could argue they needed to hunt for food. We have grocery stores now, go buy some Buffalo!

Somebody had to kill it--last I checked Buffalo/Bison don't grow on trees.

Well, for the sake of argument, we don't exactly shoot cows individually, and they manage to find their way on our plates.

That said, I personally don't have any problem with hunting. I think some people don't exactly have the right state of mind about the whole process (a little too excited by the killing part), but most are very respectful of nature and our role within it. As long as they are actually eating the animals and not just looking for a head to morbidly mount on a wall, it's cool by me.

It's interesting for an animal to be repeatedly called "stupid" with allusions to it being responsible for its own obliteration at the hands of man, while at the same time we as people are eating, smoking, drinking, etc., ourselves to death on a daily basis. It seems like they are just following evolution and act quite smart in their ability to repel all predators that play fair, and only we are in a position to be truly called "stupid," because we have the tools to adapt. Bison have no predators except man. Man was fortunate to develop great killing technology. Now it's our responsibilty to make sure that both we and they survive into the future.

As an aside, Bison could be chimp-smart and still be no match for humans. That's the wonder of the opposable thumb and the high powered rifle. We don't play fair at all. If we had to kill them with a knife made out of deer horn, then I think we'd see things working out much differently. They have no reason to fear man -- man never kills them. What does kill them is a gun, and from a distance far enough away that they have no idea what hit them.

Good post Brad. Keep in mind this was not (and is not) a "anti-hunting" post. I have some concerns with hunting but I am only concerned at this time with the two mammals mentioned (Bison and Grizzly Bears). From what I here the "de-listing" of Grizzlies is still not a done deal but you can be sure that when it does happen there will be plenty of people lined up for that license. I would like to see a ten fold increase in their numbers before that happens.

Bay Area Cat wrote:As an aside, Bison could be chimp-smart and still be no match for humans. That's the wonder of the opposable thumb and the high powered rifle. We don't play fair at all. If we had to kill them with a knife made out of deer horn, then I think we'd see things working out much differently. They have no reason to fear man -- man never kills them. What does kill them is a gun, and from a distance far enough away that they have no idea what hit them.

Seems to me that the Indians (sorry, I'm not PC) found ways of killing them without the rifle (before it was introduced to them by the White Man). One way was already alluded to above (Buffalo Jump). The second way was galloping alongside one (astride a horse, of course) with a quiver full of arrows, shooting them till they fell. Granted these techniques are no longer used, but were effective nonetheless. These ways might not have worked had buffalo been "chimp-smart", but they weren't, and still aren't, so the point is moot.

gtapp wrote:Not to fond of the NA practices either but at least the numbers were much higher in that era and they could argue they needed to hunt for food. We have grocery stores now, go buy some Buffalo!

I know you aren't stupid Gtapp, but it is this kind of thinking that is frustrating to me, as an avid hunter and son of a rancher.

You must realize that many people (the vast majority, IMO) who hunt, do so to put food on the table. The cost of an elk/deer/antelope/bear/goat/sheep/buffalo/younameit license is a pittance for the amount of meat you get.

Game is also a staple in some lower income families' diets. These people cannot afford to go out and "buy" buffalo, especially because it is often WAYYY more expensive than beef. Hell, all other game is not allowed to be sold to the general public, to the extent of my knowledge.

The other thing that peeves me about your statement is the "grocery stores" comment. It is a shame that some people think food comes from a grocery store.

grizzh8r wrote:

gtapp wrote:Not to fond of the NA practices either but at least the numbers were much higher in that era and they could argue they needed to hunt for food. We have grocery stores now, go buy some Buffalo!

I know you aren't stupid Gtapp, but it is this kind of thinking that is frustrating to me, as an avid hunter and son of a rancher.

You must realize that many people (the vast majority, IMO) who hunt, do so to put food on the table. The cost of an elk/deer/antelope/bear/goat/sheep/buffalo/younameit license is a pittance for the amount of meat you get.

Game is also a staple in some lower income families' diets. These people cannot afford to go out and "buy" buffalo, especially because it is often WAYYY more expensive than beef. Hell, all other game is not allowed to be sold to the general public, to the extent of my knowledge.

The other thing that peeves me about your statement is the "grocery stores" comment. It is a shame that some people think food comes from a grocery store.

but we still all hate the griz right?

grizzh8r wrote:

gtapp wrote:Not to fond of the NA practices either but at least the numbers were much higher in that era and they could argue they needed to hunt for food. We have grocery stores now, go buy some Buffalo!

I know you aren't stupid Gtapp, but it is this kind of thinking that is frustrating to me, as an avid hunter and son of a rancher.

You must realize that many people (the vast majority, IMO) who hunt, do so to put food on the table. The cost of an elk/deer/antelope/bear/goat/sheep/buffalo/younameit license is a pittance for the amount of meat you get.

Game is also a staple in some lower income families' diets. These people cannot afford to go out and "buy" buffalo, especially because it is often WAYYY more expensive than beef. Hell, all other game is not allowed to be sold to the general public, to the extent of my knowledge.

The other thing that peeves me about your statement is the "grocery stores" comment. It is a shame that some people think food comes from a grocery store.

Actually I do understand your point of view. That is why I am specific about Bison and Grizzlies only. I believe there are plenty of deer and elk and that we do not have the same NEED to kill Bison and Bears. There numbers are still too low (IMO) and they are an important part of our heritage. Again, not saying we should not hunt just not shoot (since it isn't really hunting) Bison and Bears.

gtapp wrote:

grizzh8r wrote:

gtapp wrote:Not to fond of the NA practices either but at least the numbers were much higher in that era and they could argue they needed to hunt for food. We have grocery stores now, go buy some Buffalo!

I know you aren't stupid Gtapp, but it is this kind of thinking that is frustrating to me, as an avid hunter and son of a rancher.

You must realize that many people (the vast majority, IMO) who hunt, do so to put food on the table. The cost of an elk/deer/antelope/bear/goat/sheep/buffalo/younameit license is a pittance for the amount of meat you get.

Game is also a staple in some lower income families' diets. These people cannot afford to go out and "buy" buffalo, especially because it is often WAYYY more expensive than beef. Hell, all other game is not allowed to be sold to the general public, to the extent of my knowledge.

The other thing that peeves me about your statement is the "grocery stores" comment. It is a shame that some people think food comes from a grocery store.

Actually I do understand your point of view. That is why I am specific about Bison and Grizzlies only. I believe there are plenty of deer and elk and that we do not have the same NEED to kill Bison and Bears. There numbers are still too low (IMO) and they are an important part of our heritage. Again, not saying we should not hunt just not shoot (since it isn't really hunting) Bison and Bears.

Your view is fine, but I would stop short of using the label "murder." Not only is it not accurate, but its overuse desensitzes the impact that such a word would otherwise deliver.