EV battery replacement

[RickRund]

I watch Motor Week every Saturday. Really love that show. Fun to keep up with all the new stuff and lately it is pretty much EV's. Definitely not interested in electric but the choice will be mine/ours. Cannot afford that car payment but... Got me to thinking about battery replacement and costs. All I can say is thanks for warranties.

https://www.recurrentauto.com/research/ ... eplacement

[Cataholic]

What an interesting article. I recently saw an article on how much electricity is consumed and what it costs over a year. It was portrayed as being about 60% of the cost of gasoline consumption over a year. I had never realized the cost savings from that perspective and it made me re-think my position on EV cars from a financial perspective. (Higher purchase price but lower operating costs). However, that article never did mention the cost of battery replacement down the road which is a certainty. Basically, you have to buy a whole new engine (battery) every so many years. That blows up the financial savings model. How long is an an EV battery supposed to last?

[grizzh8r]

What an interesting article. I recently saw an article on how much electricity is consumed and what it costs over a year. It was portrayed as being about 60% of the cost of gasoline consumption over a year. I had never realized the cost savings from that perspective and it made me re-think my position on EV cars from a financial perspective. (Higher purchase price but lower operating costs). However, that article never did mention the cost of battery replacement down the road which is a certainty. Basically, you have to buy a whole new engine (battery) every so many years. That blows up the financial savings model. How long is an an EV battery supposed to last?

Just like any battery, it's a function of time and use. Also, climate will play a role. I'd expect battery life to be very good in somewhere like San Diego. Not nearly as good in places with much larger temperature variance. I've heard anywhere from 6-10 years, but that will fluctuate from application to application.

I've seen figures for the cost of battery replacement anywhere from $10k-$25k, depending on model/type.

[Bobcat4Ever]

What an interesting article. I recently saw an article on how much electricity is consumed and what it costs over a year. It was portrayed as being about 60% of the cost of gasoline consumption over a year. I had never realized the cost savings from that perspective and it made me re-think my position on EV cars from a financial perspective. (Higher purchase price but lower operating costs). However, that article never did mention the cost of battery replacement down the road which is a certainty. Basically, you have to buy a whole new engine (battery) every so many years. That blows up the financial savings model. How long is an an EV battery supposed to last?

Just like any battery, it's a function of time and use. Also, climate will play a role. I'd expect battery life to be very good in somewhere like San Diego. Not nearly as good in places with much larger temperature variance. I've heard anywhere from 6-10 years, but that will fluctuate from application to application.

I've seen figures for the cost of battery replacement anywhere from $10k-$25k, depending on model/type.

Wow! I hadn’t realized it would be so much, but with China owning 80% of the world’s lithium it sounds grim. We moved to Nevada just three years ago and lithium is frequently in the news as Nevada has a good share of the mineable U.S. lithium. It’s found in certain dry lake beds. The developers and the anti-development forces are really going at it, which will only push the price higher.

Have any of these articles factored in the cost of the new generating facilities, and attendant environmental concerns, to make all the electricity to charge all of the new batteries? Those looking to the future see nuclear power as an important factor, with Bill Gates building a nuclear-powered plant in Wyoming, and Greenland moving to ban uranium mining.

[Cataholic]

What an interesting article. I recently saw an article on how much electricity is consumed and what it costs over a year. It was portrayed as being about 60% of the cost of gasoline consumption over a year. I had never realized the cost savings from that perspective and it made me re-think my position on EV cars from a financial perspective. (Higher purchase price but lower operating costs). However, that article never did mention the cost of battery replacement down the road which is a certainty. Basically, you have to buy a whole new engine (battery) every so many years. That blows up the financial savings model. How long is an an EV battery supposed to last?

Just like any battery, it's a function of time and use. Also, climate will play a role. I'd expect battery life to be very good in somewhere like San Diego. Not nearly as good in places with much larger temperature variance. I've heard anywhere from 6-10 years, but that will fluctuate from application to application.

I've seen figures for the cost of battery replacement anywhere from $10k-$25k, depending on model/type.

That is nuts. Would people be upset if they were informed that a gasoline engine needs to be replaced every 6 - 10 years? Of course! The general public would be irate. But when it comes to the new EV’s, this seems to be a secret. Shouldn’t this be a huge discussion point? These type of “unknowns” scare me with the green agenda. They are so fixated on pushing it through, that the downsides are never shared with the general public.

[St George]

What an interesting article. I recently saw an article on how much electricity is consumed and what it costs over a year. It was portrayed as being about 60% of the cost of gasoline consumption over a year. I had never realized the cost savings from that perspective and it made me re-think my position on EV cars from a financial perspective. (Higher purchase price but lower operating costs). However, that article never did mention the cost of battery replacement down the road which is a certainty. Basically, you have to buy a whole new engine (battery) every so many years. That blows up the financial savings model. How long is an an EV battery supposed to last?

Just like any battery, it's a function of time and use. Also, climate will play a role. I'd expect battery life to be very good in somewhere like San Diego. Not nearly as good in places with much larger temperature variance. I've heard anywhere from 6-10 years, but that will fluctuate from application to application.

I've seen figures for the cost of battery replacement anywhere from $10k-$25k, depending on model/type.

That is nuts. Would people be upset if they were informed that a gasoline engine needs to be replaced every 6 - 10 years? Of course! The general public would be irate. But when it comes to the new EV’s, this seems to be a secret. Shouldn’t this be a huge discussion point? These type of “unknowns” scare me with the green agenda. They are so fixated on pushing it through, that the downsides are never shared with the general public.

Hopefully when it happens you have a second vehicle. I'd bet that it would probably be six months just to get the new battery.

[Cataholic]

What an interesting article. I recently saw an article on how much electricity is consumed and what it costs over a year. It was portrayed as being about 60% of the cost of gasoline consumption over a year. I had never realized the cost savings from that perspective and it made me re-think my position on EV cars from a financial perspective. (Higher purchase price but lower operating costs). However, that article never did mention the cost of battery replacement down the road which is a certainty. Basically, you have to buy a whole new engine (battery) every so many years. That blows up the financial savings model. How long is an an EV battery supposed to last?

Just like any battery, it's a function of time and use. Also, climate will play a role. I'd expect battery life to be very good in somewhere like San Diego. Not nearly as good in places with much larger temperature variance. I've heard anywhere from 6-10 years, but that will fluctuate from application to application.

I've seen figures for the cost of battery replacement anywhere from $10k-$25k, depending on model/type.

That is nuts. Would people be upset if they were informed that a gasoline engine needs to be replaced every 6 - 10 years? Of course! The general public would be irate. But when it comes to the new EV’s, this seems to be a secret. Shouldn’t this be a huge discussion point? These type of “unknowns” scare me with the green agenda. They are so fixated on pushing it through, that the downsides are never shared with the general public.

Hopefully when it happens you have a second vehicle. I'd bet that it would probably be six months just to get the new battery.

Sorry but not really sure what you are saying??

[RickRund]

The tow vehicle for our 5th wheel is a 2002 Silverado 2500hd with the 8.1 with the Allison 5 spd. Great truck, pulls well for what I need just does not like to pass gas stations even when empty. As a side note If I were to do any upgrades it would be a 6 spd and 4:10s. That would increase my capacity to about 12500#. Add a 3500 leaf and gets me to about 15000#. Only weak spot are tie rods, same as the other two manufacturers. I could replace my 8.1 for a Special 8.1 for $10000. The truck has 135000 and the Honda Accord 306000. We can conceivably drive the truck 450 miles and be on the road in 10 minutes, the Honda 450 miles are back on the road in 10...

In this area ev charging is very few and far between. It looks like the new apartments being build have charging station but the goes the guy paying through on I90 or I95 no good. The people I know dislike them. My guess is the distance driven has to be a guess at best and varies on many factors: temperature, accessories being used and grades in mountainous areas.

Will recycling be a big issue?

As mentioned earlier the that invisible electrical power needs to come from somewhere, nuclear, coal, nat gas, wind or solar. Latter two to me are the least cost effective, IMO...

My 2 cents worth. Give us a choice...

[grizzh8r]

What an interesting article. I recently saw an article on how much electricity is consumed and what it costs over a year. It was portrayed as being about 60% of the cost of gasoline consumption over a year. I had never realized the cost savings from that perspective and it made me re-think my position on EV cars from a financial perspective. (Higher purchase price but lower operating costs). However, that article never did mention the cost of battery replacement down the road which is a certainty. Basically, you have to buy a whole new engine (battery) every so many years. That blows up the financial savings model. How long is an an EV battery supposed to last?

Just like any battery, it's a function of time and use. Also, climate will play a role. I'd expect battery life to be very good in somewhere like San Diego. Not nearly as good in places with much larger temperature variance. I've heard anywhere from 6-10 years, but that will fluctuate from application to application.

I've seen figures for the cost of battery replacement anywhere from $10k-$25k, depending on model/type.

Wow! I hadn’t realized it would be so much, but with China owning 80% of the world’s lithium it sounds grim. We moved to Nevada just three years ago and lithium is frequently in the news as Nevada has a good share of the mineable U.S. lithium. It’s found in certain dry lake beds. The developers and the anti-development forces are really going at it, which will only push the price higher.

Have any of these articles factored in the cost of the new generating facilities, and attendant environmental concerns, to make all the electricity to charge all of the new batteries? Those looking to the future see nuclear power as an important factor, with Bill Gates building a nuclear-powered plant in Wyoming, and Greenland moving to ban uranium mining.

It's pretty apparent that the powers that be - the neo-bourgeois enviros - haven't fully considered all aspects of this new "green" future that they propose. They still want the lights to come on when they flip the switch, still want to travel the world in fossil-fueled airplanes, still want luxuries such as iphones an air conditioning and hello fresh. The thing is, even the electric cars they drive are made by and partially powered by fossil fuels. 90% of the mobile mining equipment in the world is powered by diesel, and it takes a crap ton of copper, lithium, nickel, zinc and iron - just to name a few of the many metals that need extracted and refined - to make an EV. Mining companies are trying to open up new mines in a responsible manner, but are still being stonewalled at every turn by any number of environmental groups. Hard to make more EV's when you can't open more mines to meet the 250% increase in demand for lithium.

Beyond the raw materials supply chain issues, the crux of the issue is the problem of energy density and energy reliability. Right now, there are very few sources of fuel as energy dense and reliable as coal, natural gas or the byproducts of refined crude oil. Nuclear is about the only one, but it has it's own environmental drawbacks, not to mention a pretty bad stigma due to Chernobyl and 3 Mile Island. There is still so much more work to be done before mankind can completely do away with fossil fuels. Unfortunately that reality is ignored by those banging the "the world is gonna end by 2030 if we don't go full on green" drum.

[RickRund]

Just saw a report on FOX Business that the average price of a new EV is just under$63000 and a new gas powered is just under $47000.

The F150 surpassed it's distance estimates going 320 miles. Now to recharge do you have a standard charger or the fast charger. That is the difference between 30 minutes or 18 hours

[wapiti]

Just saw a report on FOX Business that the average price of a new EV is just under$63000 and a new gas powered is just under $47000.

The F150 surpassed it's distance estimates going 320 miles. Now to recharge do you have a standard charger or the fast charger. That is the difference between 30 minutes or 18 hours

What happens to the old batteries when replaced?? They will be an environmental hazard waiting to happen.
Recycling/Repurposing them only kicks the can down the road.

It only takes me a few minutes to re-fuel my gas powered pickup truck where recharge could take hours?????
If on a road trip who wants to stop for 30 minutes to several hours to recharge batteries every 3 to 4 hours?

[Cataholic]

This is incredibly disturbing to me. The state of Washington just passed a bill that would eliminate the sale of any new gas powered vehicles by the year 2030.

https://www.kiro7.com/news/local/state- ... utType=amp

Given all the questions posed throughout this thread, I am amazed that any state would impose such a restriction on citizens. You cannot even purchase a vehicle in another state and register it in Washington. Given that electric vehicles are roughly $15,000 more expensive to purchase than gas powered vehicles, the state is mandating the purchase of a more expensive option.

[RickRund]

This is incredibly disturbing to me. The state of Washington just passed a bill that would eliminate the sale of any new gas powered vehicles by the year 2030.

https://www.kiro7.com/news/local/state- ... utType=amp

Given all the questions posed throughout this thread, I am amazed that any state would impose such a restriction on citizens. You cannot even purchase a vehicle in another state and register it in Washington. Given that electric vehicles are roughly $15,000 more expensive to purchase than gas powered vehicles, the state is mandating the purchase of a more expensive option.

Our kids just moved here from cali and are thinking of buying a home in washington because it is less expensive. We are trying to warn them.

[Cataholic]

This is incredibly disturbing to me. The state of Washington just passed a bill that would eliminate the sale of any new gas powered vehicles by the year 2030.

https://www.kiro7.com/news/local/state- ... utType=amp

Given all the questions posed throughout this thread, I am amazed that any state would impose such a restriction on citizens. You cannot even purchase a vehicle in another state and register it in Washington. Given that electric vehicles are roughly $15,000 more expensive to purchase than gas powered vehicles, the state is mandating the purchase of a more expensive option.

Our kids just moved here from cali and are thinking of buying a home in washington because it is less expensive. We are trying to warn them.

Where in Washington would be the first question. Couldn’t be western Washington because that is more expensive than most of the country.

[RickRund]

This is incredibly disturbing to me. The state of Washington just passed a bill that would eliminate the sale of any new gas powered vehicles by the year 2030.

https://www.kiro7.com/news/local/state- ... utType=amp

Given all the questions posed throughout this thread, I am amazed that any state would impose such a restriction on citizens. You cannot even purchase a vehicle in another state and register it in Washington. Given that electric vehicles are roughly $15,000 more expensive to purchase than gas powered vehicles, the state is mandating the purchase of a more expensive option.

Our kids just moved here from cali and are thinking of buying a home in washington because it is less expensive. We are trying to warn them.

Where in Washington would be the first question. Couldn’t be western Washington because that is more expensive than most of the country.

They have looked in the area of the Deer Park area and the outskirts of Spokane..

[Cataholic]

This is incredibly disturbing to me. The state of Washington just passed a bill that would eliminate the sale of any new gas powered vehicles by the year 2030.

https://www.kiro7.com/news/local/state- ... utType=amp

Given all the questions posed throughout this thread, I am amazed that any state would impose such a restriction on citizens. You cannot even purchase a vehicle in another state and register it in Washington. Given that electric vehicles are roughly $15,000 more expensive to purchase than gas powered vehicles, the state is mandating the purchase of a more expensive option.

Our kids just moved here from cali and are thinking of buying a home in washington because it is less expensive. We are trying to warn them.

Where in Washington would be the first question. Couldn’t be western Washington because that is more expensive than most of the country.

They have looked in the area of the Deer Park area and the outskirts of Spokane..

Has the cost of living increased in the Lewiston or Moscow areas?

[wapiti]

This is incredibly disturbing to me. The state of Washington just passed a bill that would eliminate the sale of any new gas powered vehicles by the year 2030.

https://www.kiro7.com/news/local/state- ... utType=amp

Given all the questions posed throughout this thread, I am amazed that any state would impose such a restriction on citizens. You cannot even purchase a vehicle in another state and register it in Washington. Given that electric vehicles are roughly $15,000 more expensive to purchase than gas powered vehicles, the state is mandating the purchase of a more expensive option.

What about people from out of state driving to or through Washington? How will they fuel up their vehicle?
Most fuel stations will close up due to a lack of business.
Very few will visit Washington.

Plus the infrastructure that will need to be built to keep electrics charged???? How much of a load will it put on the E grid in Washington??

This bill sounds like an economic and environmental disaster waiting to happen.

[RickRund]

This is incredibly disturbing to me. The state of Washington just passed a bill that would eliminate the sale of any new gas powered vehicles by the year 2030.

https://www.kiro7.com/news/local/state- ... utType=amp

Given all the questions posed throughout this thread, I am amazed that any state would impose such a restriction on citizens. You cannot even purchase a vehicle in another state and register it in Washington. Given that electric vehicles are roughly $15,000 more expensive to purchase than gas powered vehicles, the state is mandating the purchase of a more expensive option.

Our kids just moved here from cali and are thinking of buying a home in washington because it is less expensive. We are trying to warn them.

Where in Washington would be the first question. Couldn’t be western Washington because that is more expensive than most of the country.

They have looked in the area of the Deer Park area and the outskirts of Spokane..

Has the cost of living increased in the Lewiston or Moscow areas?

I really don't know. Can't imagine it is much different than here in the CdA area or the Treasure Valley area. Housing prices SEEM to have moderated here. Other goods are up. Fuel/gas is up, lowest regular is $4.00 here, diesel is $0.90 above that. Moscow Fuel/gas just above ours. Lewiston a bit above that. Our property taxes are much better here than washington as are the politics/policies.

[Cataholic]

This is incredibly disturbing to me. The state of Washington just passed a bill that would eliminate the sale of any new gas powered vehicles by the year 2030.

https://www.kiro7.com/news/local/state- ... utType=amp

Given all the questions posed throughout this thread, I am amazed that any state would impose such a restriction on citizens. You cannot even purchase a vehicle in another state and register it in Washington. Given that electric vehicles are roughly $15,000 more expensive to purchase than gas powered vehicles, the state is mandating the purchase of a more expensive option.

What about people from out of state driving to or through Washington? How will they fuel up their vehicle?
Most fuel stations will close up due to a lack of business.
Very few will visit Washington.

Plus the infrastructure that will need to be built to keep electrics charged???? How much of a load will it put on the E grid in Washington??

This bill sounds like an economic and environmental disaster waiting to happen.

All good questions. They are not considering potential problems. They have an agenda to push through regardless of how it actually impacts citizens. All across the world, it will be acceptable to purchase a new gas powered vehicle, except in the state of Washington. It is truly mind boggling.

[wapiti]

From the article:
The ban would apply to “publicly owned and privately owned passenger and light duty vehicles

Everyone will buy Pickups and large SUVs.
I wonder how passenger and light duty vehicles is defined???

This bill is going to affect the poor the most!!!! I 'll guess that the liberal politicians who voted for this own a heavy duty vehicle for most of their daily commuting.