Durham / MSU : post how/where you stand!

[mslacat]

**************** Long Blown Out Opinion Alert ***********

OK, there has been a lot of talk about Durham and his future with the basketball program.
It has been spread among three or four topic threads. After thinking about where to put
this over blown opinion piece , I decided to start my own thread instead. Who knows
maybe it is ego. The purpose of this thread is simply to get each persons opinion out
about Durham, the Program and should he stay or be asked to leave. Of course when
ever I do something like this I can not keep it short and sweet, so skip the next couple of
paragraphs if you wish and just get to the bottom one if you don’t care for a middle age
basketball fanatics opinions.

How do I judge the basketball program.
First of all, I don’t think I judge the program using the same criteria that 90 % of you. I
have two criteria all equal in scale. 1. Wins and loses , generally measured over 2-3
seasons. 2. I want to take pride in the program, I do not ever want to be ashamed of a
fan/alumni of the MSU and the Basketball program. The program must be clean, kids
graduate, and follow the rules, and a positive attitude.

Past five years.
Up until last April, I was extremely concerned about the direction of the program. Two
years ago I was openly critical of Durham, mainly because handling of the NCAA 5-8, or
lack there of. The program was being systematically taken apart. Every year we had less
and less to work with, and it appeared that unless this rule was repealed that the MSU
program would be irrevocably harmed for 5-10 years because of Durham’s stubbornness
to adjust to the rule. Yes, for the sake of the program, at the end, I was calling for
Durham’s ouster, for refusing to adjusting his “coaching style” to the possible effect of
long term crippling of the program. My bitching must have been heard by someone,
because I got personal message (PM’s / emails) from two Durham family members (not
Mick) telling essentially to back off.

The current staus of the program.
Last April, gratefully, the 5-8 rule was repealed, and in my line of thinking I had to make
a choice of supporting Durham or not. I really want to let you folks know how bad of
shape the program was on April 15 of 2004. We had the potential to be a very bad
Frontier Team. Hell not potential , we would have been. Before April 15th I was livid
about what was going on. With the repeal of the 5-8 rule, our program was in almost a
complete rebuilding mode, and only a couple of players to build with. I consciencely,
thought “do we rebuild under new leadership (I know many of you would have chosen
this route) or rebuild with Mick.” In my mind I chose Mick. I really felt Mick could
rebuild quicker, than if we hired a new coach. Also aside from the 5-8 rule I have always
taken a fair amount pride in having him as coach.. So, I have entrusted Mick with the
rebuilding of our program, and short of a complete melt down Mick has my support for
the next couple of years (not as long as a new coach would have but still long enough to
see the program righted). Now I am not saying that my personal deicition means squat in
the big picture, but I personally I felt I needed to sh*t or get off the pot. Either support
Durham or not, I choose to support him.

So, it really does not matter to me how this team performs this year as long as I see
potential I am going to wait until next year to make a decision. Just as many of you do
not care what Durham does do, this year you want him gone! You know I have no
problem with that as a matter of fact I respect that. For those of you that are on the fence
and waiting for a great year this year before you will support Durham, well get off the
fence now! This team can be good, but it will not win the Conference! In my opinion,
from where this program was April 15th to now a middle of the Big Sky pack, finish
would a great accomplishment! If that is not acceptable, then do not fool yourselves, and
accept the fact by the end of the season Durham will not be your man. This team is too
young, has too many new players learning the system and each other, and most likely a
few players that are filling roster spots until Durham can get another recruiting seasons
behind him.

The Future
I am not going to tell you what is going to happen in the future only what I hear is the
Thrust of the program (*** i.e. rumor ***). Last years Recruiting thrust after the 5-8 rule
went bye bye was to fill scholarships emphasis on JC and or players that will contribute
right away. This year I hear Durham and staff is going for a 50/50 mix of JC to
highschool. Durham wants to challenge next year for the Conference title, centered
around a quality inside game. Namely Beye. He is looking to sign a top notch JC
forward with size(6-7 to 6-9). Not just a guy to back up Moss but to challenge Moss or
better yet start. That’s the number 1 priority I hear from Bozeman, and I also hear this
from people I talk with around the country outside the state. We should have 4-5
scholarships open. Pratt might not be guaranteed a scholie if the staff can sign 2
forward/center that can contribute right away. Right now I hear that we are hoping to
sign two forwards (one JC for sure and the best available next), a swing guard/forward,
and point guard (who can contribute at least as a back up next year). I keep hearing that
2005-06 season is about winning the title. My own observation is that Durham signs
quality high schooler generally in the fall and quality JC players in the Spring. So read
what you want into it but the do not be surprised if this recruiting class is heavy in JC
players.

I know there will be a lot of bitching about Durham because the team will an up and
down team all conference, but I really wanted to get my position out and not repeat my
self over and over for the next two months. Take what we did this week-end with a grain
of salt and accept that we will lose some that we should not. This team is an intermediate
step of where Durham hopes to take the program.

OK I am done!

[MSU01]

Can you go into more detail about how you think Durham was mishandling the 5-8 rule? I know that we got screwed over by it when guys like Latovic and Washington left after only one year, but is there more to it than that?

Anyway, I like your assessment. I also don't think Durham should be let go at this time.

[velochat]

I'm with the coaching staff and team for this season. A top 4 finish is necessary to turn down the heat. This team is flat out fun to watch. Durham recruited an entire new team to surround Nick Dissly, in effect, this season. Once the season's over, let the judging begin. Until I see evidence to the contrary, I have trust in Peter Fields and Geoff Gamble to do the right thing.

[SACCAT]

I think what the rule was"in a nut shell".

If a player left your program you had to hold off a whole season before you could use his sholi.

I could be and plobably am wrong.

[Helcat72]

I think Chuck Lindeman said (if his opinion even counts) that a coach in the Big Sky, and specifically at MSU (because he was the AD at the time), should challenge for the championship (not just the top four) at least every 4 years or he isn't doing his job. That is what Lindeman expected. There have been extenuating circumstances lately, (5-8 rule problem) but basically we have not challenged for the championship every 4 years. There have been times where if we won the last two games we had a chance to finish in the top two or three, but we always seemed to finish in the top 4 or 5 and usually went out of the tourney after the first game. At least we made it into the tourney until recently.

The same theme has followed the Bobcat teams for years. Start fast and finish slow. This IMO was because of the type of player that we recruited. The thin wispy athletic, but fragile athlete that could run all night for the first three weeks, but wore down and was pummeled over the length of the season.

When we were fortunate enough to attract players like Nate Holmstadt we did a lot better late in the season. Marvin Moss is not a Nate Holmstadt, but he is a step in the right direction. The burning question is...Can Mick recruit this kind of player consistently, or is that type of player a once-in-ten-years coup for him. If he can give us this type of player consistently and retain them...then I say he should be allowed to stay and bring us back to respectability. If this year turns out to be another fast burn and out...then I say it's no different than the last 10 or so and we need a new direction and coach that sees an opportunity to climb the ladder and bring us along with him.

[Bleedinbluengold]

Back in the early days of Mick's tenure, the team was always fun to watch. So, I'm pleased to hear from velo that this is the case this year.

In order for the program to be successful, there has to be butts in the seats. In order for that to happen, the team has to compete and win. Neither of these things have happened on a consistent basis for at least 8 years. You can say all you want about "clean program this, graduation that" but in the end, if the program doesn't win consistently, all the Rhode Scholars in the world won't make anyone want to go watch them play BB.

You know what's worse than even discussing whether to support Mick, or not? Not giving a dang about it either way......I wonder if that's where this program finds itself now?

The one guy that MAKES A DIFFERENCE this year is Coach Brown!!!We are lucky to have him on the bench this year.

[SenorWeezer]

Bobcat Basketball needs to move forward...WITHOUT Durham. The program has been almost adequate, but that is all. The coach for this program currently is running a top notch program at MSU-Billings.

Coach Carse would immediately make the Bobcat's THE powerhouse program in the Big Sky Conference. It isn't much of a stretch to think the Division II program he heads right now could compete in the Big Sky. Coach Carse's personality, recruiting expertise, and incredible coaching ability would be a huge addition to the Montana State Athletic Department.

[stillacat]

The coach for this program currently is running a top notch program at MSU-Billings.

MSU-Billings? Are you serious? Carse has compiled plenty of home wins, but do some checking into what/how people think about him? If he was really a DI coach, he'd of left Billings a long time ago.

[mslacat]

Can you go into more detail about how you think Durham was mishandling the 5-8 rule? I know that we got screwed over by it when guys like Latovic and Washington left after only one year, but is there more to it than that?

Anyway, I like your assessment. I also don't think Durham should be let go at this time.

I think at one time I had save a little blurb to descibe the 5-8 rule. Anyway a few years back the NCAA brain trust thought they would come up with a rule that prevented coaches from dumping player that those same coaches did not want in their program. The eventual rule was called the 5-8 rule. Simply what the 5-8 rule said, was that a coach in D-1 could sign a max. 5 players in any give year and a max. total 8 players in any concecutive two years. In actual practice this rules only severly limited coaches ability to staff a team. With the 5-8 rule you could sign enough high school recruits every year to replace your graduating players with a little slack (.75 players a year). Since JC players cycle through programs in only 2 years as apposed 4 year you could only afford to sign maybe one JC player on average a year. Furthermore working with in the 5/8 rule required pretty evenly distributed freshman thru senior classes of athletes. To put it quite clearly it was tricky working with in the reality of the 5-8 rule. The rule becomes impossible, if players leave the program before their elligiblity has expired, or you deside to recruit 2-3 JC recruits in any given year. The end result if this happens is that you can not sign players as quickly as you are losing/graduating players, and you end with open scholarships and very few players on your bench.

Now Durham has always been a " my way or the highway" type of coach. He is not a warm and fuzzy kind of coach, or so I have been told. Historically 1-2 players have been let go or players have simply chosen not to return to the MSU program every year through out his tenure. Some do not return the following season or leave/quit once the season starts. In the case of MSU / Durham once the NCAA passed the 5-8 rule Durham did not change his coaching style. He continued to lose players and to replace these players he signed JC players to take their place the next year. Very quickly MSU found it self with only 11 scholarship players out of a total of 13. Then it was 10, then 9. I believe we would have had only 8-9 player at the begining of this season if the rule was not repealed. Then we would have lost Brown and then Towsley (well, while he was injured). Now I have been given a long list of reasons as to why this player left and that player left (thank you Durham family), and there was a little bit of bad luck involved, but when the numbers keep adding up and the program contiues to bleed players year after year, I tend to try start ignoring excuses and look at the root cause and effect. I felt Durham needed to address the type of recruit he was recruiting, or his style, or the athletic training, or what ever it took and make the adjustment to the new rule, but problem was not being solved, MSU basketball teams were bringing a knife to a gun fight, ever night and under the 5-8 it was going to take 5-10 years to get our scholarship situation back to a even keel with the other Big Sky Schools. Durham was the head coach and he needed to make the moves and he did not or could not, and the program was on the brink of being a laughing stock of D1. Well that was my opinion anyway.

[farmcats]

Here is some information for those of you who want to see Mick go. His over all wining percentage is 0.54. This is tops over the last 50 years, better than Craft, Starnner, Lambert and Juarez. Since 1930, of those with more than five years at MSU only Breeden’s percentage of 0.59 is better. The best percentage is by G. Otto Rommey at 0.83, during the Golden Bobcat years from 1922-1928.
Another thing, MSU wining percentage since 1900 is 0.58. Mick’s percentage over the last ten years is 0.58, within the overall record.
There has been some talk about Mick not handling the 5/8 rule efficiently. When you have a four year player signed and either, he gets home sick before the season even starts ( Anderson), leaves for some other reason ( Washington ) and you can’t use those scholarships for three or four years, (my understanding on the 5/8 rule was if a player left like Washington, you couldn’t fill that scholarship until his class graduated) you have a problem. Because you depend upon walk-ons to fill the roster who aren’t D-1 players, your record is not going to be impressive. With your bench being weak, the starters play long minutes. Thus running out of gas in the latter part of the season.
Both Anderson and Washington are doing great at their respective schools. If they would have honored there scholarship here they would be either Jr or Sr this year and we wouldn’t be talking about getting rid of Mick.
About Mick not being sensitive , Martell Johnson scholarship was kept open to him thru out his sickness. This is something he did not have to do.
IMO as long as Mick keeps wining over 50% of his games, runs a clean program and challenges for the Big Sky title ever three to four years he will stay. However, if the team record is less than 50% for 2-3 consecutive years it would be time for him to go.

[MSU01]

Thanks for the insight on Durham and the 5/8 rule msla...I am admittedly not connected at all with anyone on the "inside" so I have no idea about these things! I knew what the rule was but not any of the other stuff. I'll just stick to my job as emergency amateur play-by-play man.

[BobCatFan]

The two best coach's Breeden and Rommey had buildings named after them. Will Durham have a building named after him? I do not think so.

[mslacat]

Here is some information for those of you who want to see Mick go. His over all wining percentage is 0.54. This is tops over the last 50 years, better than Craft, Starnner, Lambert and Juarez. Since 1930, of those with more than five years at MSU only Breeden’s percentage of 0.59 is better. The best percentage is by G. Otto Rommey at 0.83, during the Golden Bobcat years from 1922-1928.
Another thing, MSU wining percentage since 1900 is 0.58. Mick’s percentage over the last ten years is 0.58, within the overall record.
There has been some talk about Mick not handling the 5/8 rule efficiently. When you have a four year player signed and either, he gets home sick before the season even starts ( Anderson), leaves for some other reason ( Washington ) and you can’t use those scholarships for three or four years, (my understanding on the 5/8 rule was if a player left like Washington, you couldn’t fill that scholarship until his class graduated) you have a problem. Because you depend upon walk-ons to fill the roster who aren’t D-1 players, your record is not going to be impressive. With your bench being weak, the starters play long minutes. Thus running out of gas in the latter part of the season.
Both Anderson and Washington are doing great at their respective schools. If they would have honored there scholarship here they would be either Jr or Sr this year and we wouldn’t be talking about getting rid of Mick.
About Mick not being sensitive , Martell Johnson scholarship was kept open to him thru out his sickness. This is something he did not have to do.
IMO as long as Mick keeps wining over 50% of his games, runs a clean program and challenges for the Big Sky title ever three to four years he will stay. However, if the team record is less than 50% for 2-3 consecutive years it would be time for him to go.

Anderson - Got home sick, but is now a star at Minnesota State
Washington- Got home sick / wanted to be closer to home/ play with his best friend/ is an NAIA all American
Williams- Thought he was better than the Bobcat, did not get enough playing time as an injured freshman
Lotovik- Turned Pro
Seaberge- I really do not know the story behind that one.
Fleming (I think that was his name) - Grades / transferred to Northern.
6-5 forward cannot remember his name - Transferred to Northern / did not meet Durham expectations, what ever that means.

Off the top of my head, and I know I am missing someone or two. It they al had excuses but was it all out of Durham hands? There comes a point where I always just say enough, and the buck has to stop somewhere. I know in the administration they take the opposite view than I.

As far as Durham not being sensitive, I never said that. As a matter of fact I would argue just the opposite, and as you pointed out the Martrel Johnson situation is an example to that. I tried to capture in one short statement, in a very long-winded opinion Durham’s style, but obviously I did him an injustice. Durham I believe cares a great deal for his players, but by the same token holds them responsible for there action, and expects or demands that they meet certain responsibilities as team members, if they do not wish to conduct themselves in such away well then Durham will move on. There is no room for a Randy Moss. I was talking about 3 weeks ago to someone in the University and asked them if they wished MSU had a Christmas intrsetion like UM in case an athlete got into trouble with grades. There answer was a loud NO. In there opinion ussing the Intersession for sport elligiblity was a joke, and for it to happen three years in a row was an indictment of a program. They said it will not happen at MSU. Durham knows what every player is doing in there class work and he takes actions before it is too late. This person said it is not really about who you recruit as much what you do with them once they get here (MSU). Like I said at the beginging of this thread, i want to be able to take pride in the program and with leadership like that I do take pride and as such I am supporting Durham.
Unfortunately, under the 5-8 rule, coaches were required/asked to bow down to the athlete, or quite frankly be punished severly by the NCAA. Now this was not a situation the NCAA would send the university a letter stripping them of a scholarship, but more of a systematic punishment that just happened with no fan fair. If a university is found guilty of a seriuos infraction of rules, paying players, etc, commonly the punishment will involve the reduction of scholarship 1,2,or 3 depending on the severity. MSU was down 3 & 4 scholarships the last two years! that is a serious punishment for not following rules. Even if these rules are stupid, and assine the consciences of the were deadly. As a person i understand and can respect why Durham stood his ground, but as a business owner who works with codes and Zoning all the time I know there is a time work the system the way it is designed, while fighting to change it! The 5-8 rule was a small idea that went terribly wrong. Suborn people in the NCAA refused to admit it and it took a very long time to get it repealed. It tied coach’s hands and caused them to do things they felt were distasteful and wrong. It is going to take more than one year to set things right. Without the 5-8 rule I feel Durham is the best guy to get the program up and running.

I am going to bed,. I think for the next week I am going to do us all a favor and keep my posts down to six words or less!

[ZifCat52]

I apologize for the length of this post, I haven't said what I've wanted to for a long time and now I feel that this issue requires everyone to be heard. I feel Mick should be retained as coach. I was fortunate enough to be able to return to Montana 6 years ago at which point I had a friend tell me he thought Mick was "just good enough" and so I began trying to objectiviely look into the situation to see if I agreed.

I desire to have a coach who 1. fields competitive teams consistently, not neccesarily winning the championship every year (though I would take that), but being able to compete in the majority of the games, not getting blown out consistently within conference, and ideally being in the middle or upper half of the standings routinely, 2. runs a clean program with a focus on the student portion of the student athlete as well as the athletic portion, 3. who is loyal to the university, the players and his staff and attempts to build the program support up throughout the state, 4. who is honest with the players, media, and community about the outlook and the goings on within the program, if a player is not playing as much as he wants (who is?), he should be told why and worked with and be given an opportunity to improve, and 5. does a good job of recruiting in-state players.

As I watched the progress of the team, I became aware of the 5-8 rule and like many of you, began to see how reallly bad this rule was. It really handcuffed a coach and took away many options for managing the players and the program. In addition to the many things mentioned on this board, it also caused problems recruiting new players in a year when more prospects were available than spots to be had. An example was this last year before the 5-8 rule was done away with, Mick had a high school recruit, Kyle Landry, from Calgary who was very interested in MSU but could not be offered a scholarship becasue Marvin Moss, Branden Miller, and PJ Owsley had already been promised the 3 spots available. Kyle was offered a PJ Owlsey type deal I believe, walk-on for a year and you will get your scholarship the next year, he visited NAU the next weekend and was offered a full scholarship and is now playing and contributing there. A few weeks later the 5-8 rule was done away with, too late in this situation.

The list of players that I remember leaving MSU includes:
A player from the Virgin Islands who left due to a heart condition unknown to the player or the coaches, I can't remember his name but I believe he was a freshman.
Germaine Chase - played for parts of two years but was let go due to poor response to efforts to get him to perform to the potential he had. Luke Anderson - Freshman, never played a minute, left becasue of his father getting sick.
Justin Brown - left early due to foot problem that affected him severly his final season.
Kyle Stirmlinger - played one or two years but never contributed as much as his 6-11 or so height would have indicated, was unhappy with playing time.
Tom Duffy - left due to unhappiness with playing time, a 7th day adventist who wouldn't practice or play on Friday nights, the Big Sky switched games from a Thurs/Sat schedule to a Fri/Sat schedule while Tom was here
Bo Segeberg - started at Sac St, went to a JC, came to MSU, medical redshirt, played one year, left with one year of eligibility.
Damir Latovic - played in the last conference championship year, left to pursue a pro career in Europe, had one year left
Shea Washington - left after one year due to homesickness
Jeff Williams - played for the beginning of his freshman year, was injured, plyed some later that year, left becasue he was unhappy with his playing time
PJ Owlsey - played one year as a walk-on, offered a full scholarship,left for personal reasons, was set to come back, injured, may come back in another year.
Frank Brown -

Thats 12 in 6+ years, many of which were 3 or 4 year hits. These were all good or potentially great players, all recruitied by Mick and all dealt with in an honest manner, many left becasue of personal issues beyond the coach's control, many left as a result of Mick being honest with them and trying to make them in the best player and person they could be. Mick has demonstrated time and time again loyalty to his players, never bringing out issues in public that should have been dealt with within the team and never bad mouthing players in the press when they left. Notice that at this point there are no academic issues, though some were likely on the borderline. The 5/8 rule handcuffed Mick in replacing these players, creating the scenario that Mslacat described.

Montana kids signed include John Lasosky, Pete Conway, Justin Brown, Danny Faaborg, Nick Dissly, PJ Owsley, Carson Durr, and Wes Morales (walk-on), there may be others as well. Not too many D1 players in Montana were not signed by MSU in this time frame, exceptions include Mike Chavez and Kevin Criswell (both recruited, at the time there wasn't a good spot for Kevin, he decided to walk-on in Missoula), John Seyfert, Eric Henkel, Hasquet.

Sometimes the timing on recruiting a player was bad becasue of the 5/8 rule was affected, for example, Mick would often sign all available scholarships in the early signing period then having a key part of the puzzle leave in the Spring (Latovic, Washington) and not be able to fill that position, much less the spot at all. Also true with Martrel Johnson, signed early, then has to have a kidney transplant (he was able to be replaced, that's how Calvin Ento was signed).

In other words, Mick has had to deal with a huge number of holes in his long-term plans becasue of things out his control or his efforts to get the performance we all expect from his players. Would he rather build with freshman, absolutely, but he must also try to meet the expectations the community has about winning as well. This forced short-term fixes to attempt to stay competitive such as relying on JC's etc. Is he the cause or the effect? I believe more so the effect of the situation.

On the court, Mick's teams were always, in my opinion, well prepared and competitive in most games. Mick's offense and defense require discipline, knowledge of when to take a shot and when not to, and execution and teamwork; when worked properly they are very effective. When one player tries to win on his own, they don't work Both are designed to wear down the other team and get them out of postion or into a bad position. This effectiveness drops quickly with undermanned teams. I felt we were outmanned in the last few years, mostly due to the history presented above, yet we were still only 1 game out of second place at the end of last year and still didn't make the tournament. In the last 6 years there has been 1 repeat winner of the Big Sky and MSU has 1 of the championships.

This year's team has been a challenge blending 7 new players into a team, yet all the player's comments this last week were about what Mick was doing to address the lack of teamwork and other issues and how successful he was in doing that. They are more athletic and exciting to watch than previous year's teams. The year is not done, but we have a good start in conference.

Is Mick "just good enough"? All I know is he works very hard to do the right things for the program, is very honest and runs a clean program, has been dealt a very difficult hand from a personnel situation, yet still keeps teaching, coaching and preparing his team. Is he the best seller of the program?, not really, that's not in his nature. Is he a good ambassador for MSU and does he make his team perform that way, absolutely. Does he care about the success of the student athlete, both on and off the court, now and in the future, absolutely. Sure I'd like his record to be better, but I also see many reasons why it's the way it is and I believe he has done a great job with the cards he's been dealt, maybe with the 5-8 rule gone, we can see better returns. I hope you can support him and the team this year to see if the corner has been turned. I also hope you don't just need wins to support Mick, there is a lot more to this world of college athletics than that. On this board, many have discussed bandwagon fans, those that only root for a team when they're winning, maybe they need our help to get going as much as we need them to give us a reason to support them. I hope you can all stop and take a look at what is going on, the basis is being built for better things. That's to Mick's credit and, in my opinion, should be worth your support.

[CARDIAC_CATS]

I agree with you almost 100% Mslacat. I just think we should be way up every year as a fan with MSU and its academics/athletics/town/scenery. Top 4 in everything. That is not too much to ask. I agree with you that lets see what Durham does w/o the 5/8 rule in effect. I think Durham is one of the better defensive guys around for team defense, however we do have some differences on the offensive side of the ball (I saw some good signs this past weekend though that he is trying to fix this though). So I agree, lets see how he does this year and how he builds in the next 2-3 years after the 5/8 is gone. He at least deserves that/ability to coach with a full team.

[MSU88]

The coach for this program currently is running a top notch program at MSU-Billings.

MSU-Billings? Are you serious? Carse has compiled plenty of home wins, but do some checking into what/how people think about him? If he was really a DI coach, he'd of left Billings a long time ago.

Absolutely......my understanding is Carse is hated by all other coaches in the MSU-B program....becaues of his ego. I would never set foot in Worthington Arena if Carse was hired.

[MSU88]

I'm with the coaching staff and team for this season. A top 4 finish is necessary to turn down the heat. This team is flat out fun to watch. Durham recruited an entire new team to surround Nick Dissly, in effect, this season. Once the season's over, let the judging begin. Until I see evidence to the contrary, I have trust in Peter Fields and Geoff Gamble to do the right thing.

In my opinion, Dissly has taken a whole new role this season....one I don't think he likes much.

[BelgradeBobcat]

I guess I lament over the missed opportunity MSU had to dominate the league in the face of coaching turnover and changes in other programs. um had suffered a bit from "incest" in the Heathcoat line and was in the midst of a big change with Kennedy, coupled with the severe decline in popularity of the basketball program in the face their football team's success. Weber State had lost Ron Abegglin, NAU lost Howland, Portland State fire Sobotka whom I thought was doing a pretty good job there, Idaho State has never put it together. The school really riding a wave was EWU with Ray Gacoletti (sp?) and frankly a schoo like MSU should have a decided advantage over a school like EWU recruiting wise in my opinion. To make a long story shorter: The league is way down right now, and a program with the long stability of MSU's should have been in a position to take advantage of it.

Maybe the opportunity is still there. Weber is way down over past years, but I think Krysko is getting things shaped up quicker than I thought he could at UM. Sac State is a potential up and comer and it looks like PSU has arrived (their coach may be doing too good and get snapped to a bigger program?)

[CATTRACKER]

I'm with the coaching staff and team for this season. A top 4 finish is necessary to turn down the heat. This team is flat out fun to watch. Durham recruited an entire new team to surround Nick Dissly, in effect, this season. Once the season's over, let the judging begin. Until I see evidence to the contrary, I have trust in Peter Fields and Geoff Gamble to do the right thing.

In my opinion, Dissly has taken a whole new role this season....one I don't think he likes much.

Dissly likes to win. The Bozeman Hawks were 23-0 his senior year, runner up his junior year, and third in state his sophomore year. They posted an estimated 8 losses in his varsity career with the Bozeman Hawks. A win over the Griz and he'll be having the time of his life, along with the rest of us!" As stated before, Nick is a very unselfish player and the team's success is his success.

[MSU88]

Dissly likes to win. The Bozeman Hawks were 23-0 his senior year, runner up his junior year, and third in state his sophomore year. They posted an estimated 8 losses in his varsity career with the Bozeman Hawks. A win over the Griz and he'll be having the time of his life, along with the rest of us!" As stated before, Nick is a very unselfish player and the team's success is his success.[/quote]

I totally agree....his buddy Carson Durr is in the same boat......27-0 as a senior and something like 25-2 as a junior. His high school record would probably compare and I am sure he dislikes losing as well. I don't like either Nick or Carson's role on the team this year. Dissly should be more involved in the offense (possibly playing the #2 guard more) and Carson should be playing much more. Durr is better than Woodall at the #4 and better than Jefferson at the #3. Jefferson is a very good #2 guard however. (no criticism on Jeron)