Kramer in the Indepedent Record

CelticCat · Post by **CelticCat** » Thu Mar 24, 2005 8:36 am

I know a couple of the guys who went said everything that is said in this article, more or less, but I thought I'd post the words straight out of the big man's mouth.

http://www.helenair.com/articles/2005/0 ... 405_04.txt

Question - what are your thoughts on the proposed 3-4 defense Kramer wants to play this year?

2Cats · Post by **2Cats** » Thu Mar 24, 2005 9:20 am

I think the best athletes are at LB. Kramer has to find a way to get them on the field. My concern is how three down linemen will keep the OL off the LB's.

Interesting comment on the running back situation. Visiting with our player over the vacation, it sounds like the only healthy RB for spring will be JD. I assume that both the Cole kid and the kid from Hawaii are out of the picture?

CARDIAC_CATS · Post by **CARDIAC_CATS** » Thu Mar 24, 2005 9:25 am

I actually like the 3-4 defense. My Chargers switched to it last year and it worked wonders. However, it could take some time to learn the new system. Most of the NFL teams that run it are usually VERY good at stopping the run as you get good tacklers/athletes on the field. It is also harder for the OL guys to cut block on the DL as often times you don't know where that 4th guy is coming from etc. Matakis hopefully can be a bull in there and command a double team and then I think this system will be very fun to watch our LB"s going to town on the RB/QB.

mquast53000 · Post by **mquast53000** » Thu Mar 24, 2005 9:27 am

If Kramer can get production out of his 3 down linemen that will really let the coaches be creative with the LBs and Safeties in a 3-4 defense. You can really mess up the other team's blocking scheme when you are constantly blitzing and sending different looks at the offensive line. There will be a lot of pressure on those three big men, especially against the run.

BelgradeBobcat · Post by **BelgradeBobcat** » Thu Mar 24, 2005 9:34 am

You guys have started doing it-but can someone (I'm sure mquast can) explain some of the details of the 3-4 defense. I'm assuming instead of 4 d-linemen in a 3 point stance you have 3 linemen, and then an outside linebacker who most often is assigned as a pass rusher.

If I recall our 1984 championship team employed this defense. I remembe Mark Fellows moving from one side of the line to the other depending on the matchup and most often rushing (and quite often sacking) the quarterback.

CARDIAC_CATS · Post by **CARDIAC_CATS** » Thu Mar 24, 2005 9:42 am

BelgradeBobcat wrote:You guys have started doing it-but can someone (I'm sure mquast can) explain some of the details of the 3-4 defense. I'm assuming instead of 4 d-linemen in a 3 point stance you have 3 linemen, and then an outside linebacker who most often is assigned as a pass rusher.

If I recall our 1984 championship team employed this defense. I remembe Mark Fellows moving from one side of the line to the other depending on the matchup and most often rushing (and quite often sacking) the quarterback.

Yeah, you have the 3 down lineman and then usually a tweener DE/LB player that can move around to rush the passer etc. This whole system is based on having a DT that can command a double team though. Matakis is going to have to be a bull in there or some of of those OL will pop out and take on our LB's. I just like the 3-4 as it gets more athletes on the field and you get that rabid SWARM factor usually. Watch the Chargers/Patriots/Steelers front 7 and you always have 5-6 guys around the ball I swear. It should be fun to watch. You can also employ more zone blitzing schemes out of a 3-4 than you can on a 4-3 as well. So it should be a lot harder to gameplan for the Cats this year I think if they can successfuly run the 3-4. The 3-4 also usually gets you more TO's as a defense as well. The Chargers defense increased their net turnovers produced by a +12 or something like that I think when they went to the 3-4 as there are a lot of athletes in 'space' out there. When the QB gets pressured, there is less room for error when making a quick/hot read to get it out.

I'm pretty excited we are going to that. I do like our LB corp so it should be very fun to watch this year.

94VegasCat · Post by **94VegasCat** » Thu Mar 24, 2005 9:45 am

I was a little disappointed with the defense down the stretch last year because we went to a 3-4 and had the ball crammed down our throats. People complained that our small defensive lineman couldn't handle the run. Well not in a 3-4 they can't. The CATS have had one of the premeir D-lines in the BSC for the past few years with FOUR smaller, faster down lineman. Injury forced the CATS into a 3 man front and our guys were just not big enough to handle a 5 on 3 situation. Keep in mind that during the season, guys tend to lose weight and stamina and just can't handle those big heavies against those odds. When the CATS ran a 4-3 with Sebeystian, Clark, Cordeiro, and 95 ( I am so sorry, for the life of me cannot remember his name), those guys were smaller and faster and dominated the BSC. Last year at the end of the season we were showing more 3-4 looks and needed the bigger bulkier d-linemen to keep offensive linemen from getting to the LB's.

I know what I wanted to say when I started typing all of this and I hope I kind of conveyed what I was thinking. Maybe Mr. Quast can help me elaborate my point. In a 4-3, the lineman are more in an attack mode, in a 3-4, the lineman need to keep the LB's freed up to make the plays. Our LB's this year ARE FAST.

I can see and agree with a 3-4 this year with our returning d line coming in at the 280 range. Guys who are 245-260 are not going to keep 5 linemen from reaching the LB's.

94VegasCat · Post by **94VegasCat** » Thu Mar 24, 2005 9:49 am

I think that the last few posts all were being typed at the same time and all kinda hit the nail on the head.

mquast53000 · Post by **mquast53000** » Thu Mar 24, 2005 9:52 am

BelgradeBobcat wrote:You guys have started doing it-but can someone (I'm sure mquast can) explain some of the details of the 3-4 defense. I'm assuming instead of 4 d-linemen in a 3 point stance you have 3 linemen, and then an outside linebacker who most often is assigned as a pass rusher.

You can give a ton of different looks. The nose is always on the center (he might shade a side or play almost in a gap) the D-tackles will be on the O-tackles (but again they might be playing a gap). Then there usually is a LB that is basically a stand up D-lineman (not always the case, but most coaches play it that way). I have actually seen a team put the LB in a 3-point in a run situation. Then the 2 interior LBs will cover the O-guards. If you are playing a good O-line you won't surprise them too much, but a young inexperience O-line can be caught of guard with some trickery. I think that Coach K will come up with some great calls that we result in some big defensive plays. Also, a 3-4 defense will take off some of the coverage pressure on our DBs. You can have the LBs cover the short routes a lot more effectively. Did that answer most of your questions?

CARDIAC_CATS · Post by **CARDIAC_CATS** » Thu Mar 24, 2005 9:55 am

94VegasCat wrote:I was a little disappointed with the defense down the stretch last year because we went to a 3-4 and had the ball crammed down our throats. People complained that our small defensive lineman couldn't handle the run. Well not in a 3-4 they can't. The CATS have had one of the premeir D-lines in the BSC for the past few years with FOUR smaller, faster down lineman. Injury forced the CATS into a 3 man front and our guys were just not big enough to handle a 5 on 3 situation. Keep in mind that during the season, guys tend to lose weight and stamina and just can't handle those big heavies against those odds. When the CATS ran a 4-3 with Sebeystian, Clark, Cordeiro, and 95 ( I am so sorry, for the life of me cannot remember his name), those guys were smaller and faster and dominated the BSC. Last year at the end of the season we were showing more 3-4 looks and needed the bigger bulkier d-linemen to keep offensive linemen from getting to the LB's.

I know what I wanted to say when I started typing all of this and I hope I kind of conveyed what I was thinking. Maybe Mr. Quast can help me elaborate my point. In a 4-3, the lineman are more in an attack mode, in a 3-4, the lineman need to keep the LB's freed up to make the plays. Our LB's this year ARE FAST.

I can see and agree with a 3-4 this year with our returning d line coming in at the 280 range. Guys who are 245-260 are not going to keep 5 linemen from reaching the LB's.

Yep, the nosetackle is the key to the 3-4 defense. The nosetackle must demand a double team in order for it to work REALLY well. It will be interesting to see who we have in there (Matakis is sounds like). I heard he is a BULL though and squat a lot of weight so he does sound good for the job. The Nosetackle must be HARD WORKING relentless type that will not get down when being constantly double teamed. The 3-4 makes it MUCH MUCH harder to run to the outside of the formation though as the OL guys do not have 4 of the front 7 tied up .. .there are usually people free to swarm to the ball. If we get 7 guys with fire/heart and run the 3-4 I think this defense will be pretty darn good. It will make the OL/QB/RB reading the defense a WHOLE lot tougher in my opinion and give us the ability to make more plays/cause turnovers. The players have to run it correctly though to do this. This is my only fear is how well they can adjust to it.

mquast53000 · Post by **mquast53000** » Thu Mar 24, 2005 10:00 am

To reiterate the point that has already been made, the Cats could be in trouble against the run. There are some good running backs in the BSC, and you need a VERY good nose to help out those interior LBs. The 3-4 is great against the pass, but it can be vulnerable against the run. If you are playing a team with quality O-guards they have the potential of pounding the ball up the middle. A 3-4 defense puts a lot of importance on the nose and interior LB's. The success of the defense will be determined by the strength of those 3 positions.

BelgradeBobcat · Post by **BelgradeBobcat** » Thu Mar 24, 2005 10:10 am

mquast53000 wrote: Did that answer most of your questions?

That was great-thanks!

As has been noted in this thread-I surmise that in the 3-4 you're more vulnerable against the run? But there's more potential for big plays (turnovers)? I also think I understand more why the 4-3 works better with smaller quicker d-linemen like we've had since Kramer got here.

What do most Big Sky teams use on defense?

CelticCat · Post by **CelticCat** » Thu Mar 24, 2005 11:16 am

This is all going to depend on those front 3. I have faith in our LB core if and only if the 3 DL can keep the 5 OLmen occupied. If not, you are going to see some big 300 pound guys flattened our LBs.

One thing I do like is moving Lowe and Daly to LB. Lowe was a starter last year on the DL, and having him play LB will help immensely, as when he is called to pash rush (which I'm guessing will be a lot) he will have the DL mentality because that is what he has been his whole career (I assume).

I am impressed with the bulk some of our guys have gained, and I believe we should be able to sucessfully run a 3-4, but it all starts on the DL. If the DL can't handle it, I bet we see a 4-3 again real fast.

My concern is an opposing team like Cal Poly who runs 7 OL (2 TE). They ran all over last year in a 4-3, a 3-4 from us should make them drool.

If it goes well, it certainly will help our pass protection, LB's hovering over the middle and covering short routes and TEs, and if we can find a way to get pressure with a 3 man DL and maybe a LB or 2 blitzing, I can see this leading to more turnovers in our favor.

CARDIAC_CATS · Post by **CARDIAC_CATS** » Thu Mar 24, 2005 11:50 am

CelticCat wrote:This is all going to depend on those front 3. I have faith in our LB core if and only if the 3 DL can keep the 5 OLmen occupied. If not, you are going to see some big 300 pound guys flattened our LBs.

One thing I do like is moving Lowe and Daly to LB. Lowe was a starter last year on the DL, and having him play LB will help immensely, as when he is called to pash rush (which I'm guessing will be a lot) he will have the DL mentality because that is what he has been his whole career (I assume).

I am impressed with the bulk some of our guys have gained, and I believe we should be able to sucessfully run a 3-4, but it all starts on the DL. If the DL can't handle it, I bet we see a 4-3 again real fast.

My concern is an opposing team like Cal Poly who runs 7 OL (2 TE). They ran all over last year in a 4-3, a 3-4 from us should make them drool.

If it goes well, it certainly will help our pass protection, LB's hovering over the middle and covering short routes and TEs, and if we can find a way to get pressure with a 3 man DL and maybe a LB or 2 blitzing, I can see this leading to more turnovers in our favor.

Not sure if this is just a crazy stat or not, but when the Chargers changed to a 3-4 last year their ability to stop the run went up a lot. No one could run on them very well all year. They totally shut down Denver twice (40 total yards I think the first game rushing) and we know that they have a good offensive line usually. All I know is if the Bobcats can swarm to the ball like the Chargers did last year ... I see no reason why we can't stop the run. We need to work on tackling a lot if we are in the 3-4 though as the 3-4 there is more open space/less piles so if you can tackle well you can get that guy before he makes his break. I'm just using the Chargers as an example as switching to that system last year improved their defense a TON! The ended up like #2 in the league against the run I think. They do have a stud nose tackle in Jamal Williams though. So I think our abiliity to run the 3-4 is how our front 3 play early on. Otherwise, as stated above we will probably go back to a 4-3.

94VegasCat · Post by **94VegasCat** » Thu Mar 24, 2005 12:04 pm

I am all for the 3-4 if the boys in the trenches are as big they are said to be.

Robcat · Post by **Robcat** » Thu Mar 24, 2005 12:07 pm

Hate to sound like an idiot but would someone put the X's and O's on this thread for me for the new 3-4 defense. I asume I understand it, but not sure. Thanks

CARDIAC_CATS · Post by **CARDIAC_CATS** » Thu Mar 24, 2005 12:14 pm

Robcat wrote:Hate to sound like an idiot but would someone put the X's and O's on this thread for me for the new 3-4 defense. I asume I understand it, but not sure. Thanks

Try this link. It kind of explains the good things/bad things about it as well as what types of different looks you can run. As you can see, there are many 'disguised' looks you can run out of the 3-4 defense and it is a lot harder to game plan for that is for sure.

http://tafkac.tripod.com/maddenfilez/id11.html

http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/04256/377677.stm

2Cats · Post by **2Cats** » Thu Mar 24, 2005 7:57 pm

The bottom line here fella's is in a 3/4 you can't stand up and go toe to toe with 5 (tackle to tackle) 6 or 7 offensive players (depending on how many tight ends or nasty wings are within 6 yards of the ball). That said, the only way for a 3/4 to dominate the LOS is 1) to have a creative run/pass blitz scheme and 2) to have the horses to make it happen.

As an offensive coach, I hated to play a heads up D Coordinator that ran a 3/4 because you could never tell how many were coming or where they were coming from. With regard to a passing offense, a 3/4 forces an offense into more of a roll out or sprint out game plan. Potentially, I think that next years D could be as exciting as this years O.

Let me say this about E. King. We have watched him play for the past eight seasons. He is just now starting to scratch the surface of his true ability. Baring injury, we expect him to be playing Sundays.

Bleedinbluengold · Post by **Bleedinbluengold** » Mon Mar 28, 2005 2:31 pm

Someone much smarter than I, and with pro experience told me once that the real key to a successful 3-4 is the nose tackle. If the nose gets pushed around, then it's lights out for the D.

wbtfg · Post by **wbtfg** » Mon Mar 28, 2005 2:40 pm

I heard that there is a HUGE athletic kid (6-6 320, 5.0 Bench Presses 500+) from Belgrade that is walking on this year. A buddy of mine said that he met him, and apparently the kid graduated from HS early, and is now enrolled at MSU and participating in spring drills. I guess he's a walk on because he has a full tuition waiver due to a 4.0 GPA.

All of this is second hand, I'm just looking for a name and if anyone knows anything about the kid.