Flat tax?

iaafan · Post by **iaafan** » Fri Apr 15, 2005 1:56 pm

http://moneycentral.msn.com/content/Taxes/P115230.asp

Just when I was losing interest in bashing George.

El_Gato · Post by **El_Gato** » Fri Apr 15, 2005 2:31 pm

But this story & it's overriding theme is my biggest beef with taxation in America today. The politicians, beauracrats, and the media have created the most dangerous case of "tunnel vision" ever.

When ALL Americans should be truly questioning where & how our tax $$ are being spent, 99.9% of discussions regarding taxation focus solely on WHO is or is not paying their "fair" share. For decades now, this issue has turned into a war amongst the classes; "I don't care how goverment is spending our money, as long as someone else is footing the bill..."

The bottom line is that we ALL pay far more than we should on wasteful, inefficient, duplicative, and ineffective programs. The only way we are not already beyond the point of no return regarding government spending is if we can somehow manage to change our focus & our perspectives regarding where & how are money is being spent.

I've often considered that Montana may be the only place left in America where SIGNIFICANT taxation/spending reform can take place simply because of the #'s involved; small population, small demand on services (TRUE demand, not what government has created), and generally an independently-minded collection of people. IMO, what we need to do is specifically REDEFINE precisely the services we TRULY expect state government to perform for us; once we establish that, it would be relatively simple to estimate what those services would cost to implement.

Once we know the costs, the battle would be over how to pay them. What has happened, however, is that the ENTIRE focus is on HOW to pay the ever-increasing (at astounding rates) cost of government, rather than what we are actually paying for & what we are "getting" for our $$$. I think the time is long past where we need to start ELIMINATING entire departments, agencies, and/or programs; I believe that if we actually find our society has suffered because of the elimination of something, we'd be smart enough to resurrect it. (Remember the Federal Government shut-down under Clinton? Did your daily life REALLY change AT ALL?)

I truly fear that if we don't change our focus within the next 20 years, this state & this country are doomed financially, at least as a capitalistic system. WHO CARES who's paying the bills when we're ALL getting screwed? Not me; let's stop the screwing first, then fight over who picks up the check...

Post by **SonomaCat** » Fri Apr 15, 2005 3:04 pm

I agree with your post, and see a lot of interesting insight in your comments about Montana being one of the few places where one can imagine actually making some sense out of it. I know that here in CA, no matter what happens, the budget will continue to grow and more money will be wasted on numerous programs that don't work. The monster has simply grown too large too control and there are too many people with too many vested interests in the system to really cut any of the fat. That's kind of depressing, but it seems to be the way it works.

It would be fun to be king for a day and go into any large government budget and start cutting expenditures that didn't make sense, and even moving that money to projects that really do need more funding. That would be the upside of a dictatorship/monarchy over a democracy ... but I'm still partial to the democracy thing (until they make me king, then I will retroactively become a lifelong monarchist!).

hokeyfine · Post by **hokeyfine** » Fri Apr 15, 2005 3:22 pm

the 3rd most costly item in our federal budget is the interest payment on the debt. thanks to W we now pay over 300 billion for interest alone. imagine what could be done with 300 billion. W could invade iran for that.

Bleedinbluengold · Post by **Bleedinbluengold** » Fri Apr 15, 2005 3:39 pm

I didn't realize W was responsible for the whole interest payment?

How much of that interest payment is directly related to the entitlement programs started under FDR?

Government wastes money .... that's what it does...always has, always will...the beauracracy doesn't care what mascot your party has.

mquast53000 · Post by **mquast53000** » Sat Apr 16, 2005 2:46 pm

Bleedinbluengold wrote:I didn't realize W was responsible for the whole interest payment?

How much of that interest payment is directly related to the entitlement programs started under FDR?

Government wastes money .... that's what it does...always has, always will...the beauracracy doesn't care what mascot your party has.

Very good point. FDR started the monster, and now no one can kill it! I get really sick of all the gov't programs out there that are useless, and then W says lets cut Amtrak. Good call; make it harder to live in rural America... We give billions to the airlines to keep them from going bankrupt, and in the same breath we cut all the money to Amtrak that would insure bankruptcy... What a world... You can figure out who has the better lobbyists…