3-4 defence?

CLUB 126 · Post by **CLUB 126** » Mon Apr 25, 2005 12:46 pm

Do we know who is NOT going to play next year?

Is the D in trouble? why am I not feeling good about the injury situation and our new 3-4

Iam NERVOUS, help anyone!

BobcatLionFan · Post by **BobcatLionFan** » Mon Apr 25, 2005 1:20 pm

I think the Defense will be better than last year. Will have to see if it will be back to the top unit in the BSC.

1st LBs are going to be special. Epi King is faster than Coop and getting stronger each day. The others are obvious studs.

Cornerbacks will be better with guys returning from injury. (Smith and Kahiam Hunter) and a Div I CB is still on the way come Fall (Chris Davis).

Safeties should be better than last year in that both will have a year more experience and Force is stronger. With our defense the strong Safety makes a lot of tackles (by design) and Force will do a good job.

The front three is the biggest question mark. Rogers will be back in the Fall (out during spring after knee operation), Papich was much improved and Chris Kolone will be a stud for a long time. Also there is a JC transfer - David Siataga - still to arrive in the Spring that should be good. Sweet Lou should also be fine come Fall. So there should be better DL than was shown in the last scrimage. (I don't expect much from the new freshmen for either side of the ball).

Given that, Matakis is a Huge Loss - He was extremely strong and a little mean. Wouldn't expect him back for a good while which is to bad.

grizhatr · Post by **grizhatr** » Mon Apr 25, 2005 1:31 pm

Don't count on Hunter. With the injury on Friday, I am not wishing on any stars. Plus I think that Fuller did a hell of a job last year considering... Hopefully Eddie Smith stays healthy. We should be fine, hopefully?

iaafan · Post by **iaafan** » Mon Apr 25, 2005 2:25 pm

The defense is suspect and if the injuries don't slow down it will be worse than last year. I have to believe they will slow down, but I wouldn't look for anything close to what it used to be. It doesn't have anywhere near the speed it had two years ago.
UM, despite what last year's misleading stats said, is looking more and more like it will field one of the best defenses in the league this year. Murphy, Spencer, MacIntyre, Cooper, jr. Edwards are all likely first teamers. Joyce, Utterback, Thomas, and others are all good. I don't see a bad player on that defense.
A big chunk of the yards vs. UM last year came after the game was in hand.
Nothing is certain for MSU outside of the linebacking crew. The line and secondary are very questionable with the injury to Matakis and uncertainty surrounding Hunter and Smith. Davis isn't in town yet and those banking on Fuller are actually wishing. He still has a ways to go.

CARDIAC_CATS · Post by **CARDIAC_CATS** » Mon Apr 25, 2005 2:58 pm

iaafan wrote:The defense is suspect and if the injuries don't slow down it will be worse than last year. I have to believe they will slow down, but I wouldn't look for anything close to what it used to be. It doesn't have anywhere near the speed it had two years ago.
UM, despite what last year's misleading stats said, is looking more and more like it will field one of the best defenses in the league this year. Murphy, Spencer, MacIntyre, Cooper, jr. Edwards are all likely first teamers. Joyce, Utterback, Thomas, and others are all good. I don't see a bad player on that defense.
A big chunk of the yards vs. UM last year came after the game was in hand.
Nothing is certain for MSU outside of the linebacking crew. The line and secondary are very questionable with the injury to Matakis and uncertainty surrounding Hunter and Smith. Davis isn't in town yet and those banking on Fuller are actually wishing. He still has a ways to go.

I disagree on the yardage in the Cat/Griz game. I have watched that game about 6-7 times now and had certain things gone our way (couple key catches or a tackle) that game could have been very close! We were in that until 8-10 minute mark of the 4th no problem. If we had made a few key plays at the right time could have changed whole outcome of the game. It was an 8 point game with 4:00 or so left in 3rd quarter. The start of the 4th is where the Griz put the game away.

However that is the inconsistency our offense showed with the 85% pass play type offense. This year we hopefully can keep the offense on the field and not have to rely on receivers always being open/catching the tough passes etc. RUN THE BALL DOWN THE DEFENSE throats and go play action when its there. If I know Kramer, he is on the lookout for another DL type as we speak and will hopefully pull 2-3 more gems in over the summer like he has the past 2-3 years. We got Rogers pretty late in the season last year if I remember right? or was that Matakis? If we can get at least one stud DT our defense should be fine depth wise on the DL this year I think. I also think if we are in a bunch that we should move one of our OL over (BIRKLAND) if we totally need to. I know that's not what you want to do as a coach, but if you have major depth in one area, then you hope you can maybe steal a guy or two from there that can plug the gaps/stop the run.

iaafan · Post by **iaafan** » Mon Apr 25, 2005 3:11 pm

Sorry C.C. I wasn't very clear. I didn't mean just the C-G game, I meant all games in general. The cause of UM being rated so low in pass defense was that they gave up a ton of yards when their opponents were forced to throw the ball and UM was happy to give up pass plays underneath rather than a quick strike. Teams took it and UM's stats suffered because of it to the tune of about 60-70 yards per game. Just an opinion based on my perception backed by some statistical evidence.

grizhatr · Post by **grizhatr** » Mon Apr 25, 2005 3:20 pm

Do you think that the coach in the defensive unit just doesn't "get them going" anymore? I hate to bring this up, but, I think our real motivator of the Cat Defense everyone knew a time ago, is now in the state pen. I think we are still feeling pains of this, even though most of these are new guys. Obviously, something is missing?

iaafan · Post by **iaafan** » Mon Apr 25, 2005 3:47 pm

I don't think that's (O'Brien) it, maybe to a small extent. The main thing is the talent level isn't as good considering all the injuries. If all were healthy this would be a good defense, but with all the injuries (and I'm counting those from last year) the defense hasn't had a chance to gel into the unit it could become and could've been a year ago.
But it's hard to replace Joey Thomas, Roger Cooper, Jon Montoya, Ray Sebastyen, and Kane Ioane and it will be difficult for MSU to get back there, those guys were very good. It'll be hard to replace Matakis, Smith, Hunter if one or all don't make it back 100%. Seems like as soon as one problem is remedied another comes up.
Same thing with the kicker. A guy comes in a booms the ball for a T.Back almost every time, then gets hurt, then quits.

mquast53000 · Post by **mquast53000** » Mon Apr 25, 2005 3:51 pm

I agree with you there iaafan, but Coach OB was VERY good at his job. He was one of the best coaches that I had ever had. That is what made his poor choices so difficult for my to understand. He was going to be a head coach within 3-4 years. He really was one hell of a coach...

Helcat72 · Post by **Helcat72** » Mon Apr 25, 2005 3:57 pm

iaafan wrote:I don't think that's (O'Brien) it, maybe to a small extent. The main thing is the talent level isn't as good considering all the injuries. If all were healthy this would be a good defense, but with all the injuries (and I'm counting those from last year) the defense hasn't had a chance to gel into the unit it could become and could've been a year ago.
But it's hard to replace Joey Thomas, Roger Cooper, Jon Montoya, Ray Sebastyen, and Kane Ioane and it will be difficult for MSU to get back there, those guys were very good. It'll be hard to replace Matakis, Smith, Hunter if one or all don't make it back 100%. Seems like as soon as one problem is remedied another comes up.
Same thing with the kicker. A guy comes in a booms the ball for a T.Back almost every time, then gets hurt, then quits.

What is it with kickers at MSU? Carroll had two or three of them that could kick the damn thing into the endzone and make a 30-35 yard FG routinely...and then they signed the Helena High kid who transferred from Utah State! Now they have three kickers! We can't seem to solidify one. Maybe we need a psychiatrist for our kickers and not a coach...but maybe a real kicking coach would help!

CARDIAC_CATS · Post by **CARDIAC_CATS** » Mon Apr 25, 2005 4:02 pm

mquast53000 wrote:I agree with you there iaafan, but Coach OB was VERY good at his job. He was one of the best coaches that I had ever had. That is what made his poor choices so difficult for my to understand. He was going to be a head coach within 3-4 years. He really was one hell of a coach...

I actually had been thinking about coach O'brien as well as maybe the reason why we have lost some FIRE out there on defense. I'm sure the team really misses him, but we have to move on from it. From the clips I saw of him coaching he never let anyone get in a comfort level while playing, he always demanded the HIGHEST effort from all his players. He also looked like a very good one on one instructor of technique as well to me. We should almost think about bringing in some guys that were under him and see if they can help pass on what coach O.B. was about etc. (Montoya/Corderio etc.). I do however think it was a combination of the quality of our players on our team 2-3 years ago as well. Those guys were leaders and TRUE GRIT type players. They did not take any snaps off and were TOUGH. We need to get that mentality back. And from the looks of the injuries so far, I think Kramer and Co. are too.

I will wait to judge the defense at the beginning of the year until I see what we will field though. I'm sure everyone on there is giving it there all and they know that the defense must play well for our team to win the Big Sky/National Championship this year.

CARDIAC_CATS · Post by **CARDIAC_CATS** » Mon Apr 25, 2005 4:05 pm

iaafan wrote:Sorry C.C. I wasn't very clear. I didn't mean just the C-G game, I meant all games in general. The cause of UM being rated so low in pass defense was that they gave up a ton of yards when their opponents were forced to throw the ball and UM was happy to give up pass plays underneath rather than a quick strike. Teams took it and UM's stats suffered because of it to the tune of about 60-70 yards per game. Just an opinion based on my perception backed by some statistical evidence.

Oh I got you 1-AA, I misunderstood you on that. I agree, I think the Griz secondary did get a lot of yards on them later in the game overall last year as well. So on paper they looked a little softer than they were etc. as well. Lulay did light them up pretty good over the whole game though in the Cat/Griz game

We just couldn't stop their running game .. plain and simple (248 rushing yards on us).

iaafan · Post by **iaafan** » Mon Apr 25, 2005 4:26 pm

Not saying OB wasn't a very good coach, because he was. He made poor choices on a personal level, but he was a very good coach. It would certainly be helpful to have a guy who could coach like him around. But he would have his hands full.

I like to wait to judge, too, but the fall is a long ways away. MSU has three question marks...d-line, secondary and kicker. Fortunately for them they have some time to fix those problems. But if the season started today those question marks would be there and three is too many for even the best offense to overcome. I think we all know that a team needs more than just a great offense to win (see the early '80s (Fouts) Chargers, Marino's Dolphins, recent Viking' teams). Fun to watch, but too flawed to get to the big one. I guess of those three teams Miami did it once.

CelticCat · Post by **CelticCat** » Mon Apr 25, 2005 4:58 pm

iaafan wrote:I think we all know that a team needs more than just a great offense to win (see the early '80s (Fouts) Chargers, Marino's Dolphins, recent Viking' teams). Fun to watch, but too flawed to get to the big one. I guess of those three teams Miami did it once.

My 99 Rams, baby!

BozoneCat · Post by **BozoneCat** » Mon Apr 25, 2005 5:14 pm

Like it or not, MSU is still strongly feeling the after-effects of OB's stupidity. The man made some very dumb and selfish personal decisions, but his coaching was without peer in the Big Sky. He was - by far - the best coach I have ever seen work. He truly had a special gift in his ability to extract every last bit of talent out of every player he coached. Every guy that played for OB loved him like a father, and would have willingly thrown himself into traffic for Coach. Still such a sad and embarrassing mark on MSU Athletics...

Catdad39 · Post by **Catdad39** » Mon Apr 25, 2005 6:28 pm

I do agree that losing Coach OBrien was huge! However, the vast majority of these starters never played significant roles under OB. Our health is questionable right now, but I do believe that we will be pretty healthy in the fall. Hunter's shoulder held up fine this spring. The knee injury was not an ACL. He should be fine. I think that our DLine will surprise some people. Our biggest problem last year was NOT being able to lock down at the corners as we had done the previous three years. That was a HUGE problem. From the Sac State game on, people did take advantage of our inexperience there. Our corners got better. We can actually have depth this year if Hunter and Smith are healthy. Our 3-4 scheme is more superior to disguise pressure and run more options. It puts more pressure on the offense. Our LB's could be the best crew we have ever had! I think the defense will surprise people. It should be a big improvement over last year. Time will tell! Don't write these guys off now!

grizzh8r · Post by **grizzh8r** » Tue Apr 26, 2005 12:32 am

CelticCat wrote:
iaafan wrote:I think we all know that a team needs more than just a great offense to win (see the early '80s (Fouts) Chargers, Marino's Dolphins, recent Viking' teams). Fun to watch, but too flawed to get to the big one. I guess of those three teams Miami did it once.
My 99 Rams, baby!

Forgot to add the most recent one - the Indianapolis Colts. Proven potent offense, shoddy defense at best. In general, defense wins Championships. It may be cliche, but its true.

CARDIAC_CATS · Post by **CARDIAC_CATS** » Tue Apr 26, 2005 8:16 am

Catdad39 wrote:I do agree that losing Coach OBrien was huge! However, the vast majority of these starters never played significant roles under OB. Our health is questionable right now, but I do believe that we will be pretty healthy in the fall. Hunter's shoulder held up fine this spring. The knee injury was not an ACL. He should be fine. I think that our DLine will surprise some people. Our biggest problem last year was NOT being able to lock down at the corners as we had done the previous three years. That was a HUGE problem. From the Sac State game on, people did take advantage of our inexperience there. Our corners got better. We can actually have depth this year if Hunter and Smith are healthy. Our 3-4 scheme is more superior to disguise pressure and run more options. It puts more pressure on the offense. Our LB's could be the best crew we have ever had! I think the defense will surprise people. It should be a big improvement over last year. Time will tell! Don't write these guys off now!

No way I'm writing this team off yet. There are just some posters a little worried about the depth of the DL is all. If we don't have any injuries during the year on the DL we will be fine. Depth could be a concern though. I think we will field a VERY COMPETITIVE defense to start the season, its just if we can stay healthy. Like I said, I hope Kramer can somehow snare one more stud DL that we can plug in the fall and then we will be set. If hunter has a sprained MCL he should be okay by fall. The thing I have heard about the MCL is that when it's weak you need to take it easy as it can lead to a tear of the ACL due to the other ligament being weak etc. Bozeone (What is your take on a sprained MCL)? Give us the scoop on prognosis/timeline?

wbtfg · Post by **wbtfg** » Tue Apr 26, 2005 8:30 am

CARDIAC_CATS wrote:
Catdad39 wrote:I do agree that losing Coach OBrien was huge! However, the vast majority of these starters never played significant roles under OB. Our health is questionable right now, but I do believe that we will be pretty healthy in the fall. Hunter's shoulder held up fine this spring. The knee injury was not an ACL. He should be fine. I think that our DLine will surprise some people. Our biggest problem last year was NOT being able to lock down at the corners as we had done the previous three years. That was a HUGE problem. From the Sac State game on, people did take advantage of our inexperience there. Our corners got better. We can actually have depth this year if Hunter and Smith are healthy. Our 3-4 scheme is more superior to disguise pressure and run more options. It puts more pressure on the offense. Our LB's could be the best crew we have ever had! I think the defense will surprise people. It should be a big improvement over last year. Time will tell! Don't write these guys off now!
No way I'm writing this team off yet. There are just some posters a little worried about the depth of the DL is all. If we don't have any injuries during the year on the DL we will be fine. Depth could be a concern though. I think we will field a VERY COMPETITIVE defense to start the season, its just if we can stay healthy. Like I said, I hope Kramer can somehow snare one more stud DL that we can plug in the fall and then we will be set. If hunter has a sprained MCL he should be okay by fall. The thing I have heard about the MCL is that when it's weak you need to take it easy as it can lead to a tear of the ACL due to the other ligament being weak etc. Bozeone (What is your take on a sprained MCL)? Give us the scoop on prognosis/timeline?

Todd Walker of the Chi. Cubs spained his MCL a few weeks ago and his prognosis was out for 4-6 weeks. Also, I believe that Junior Adams partially tore his MCL during his senior and I think he only missed one or two games, and was healthy enough to run 50+ yards for a touchdown against the griz. From what I hear, there is good blood circulation to the MCL which allows it to heal faster....Hopefully this is the case in Kaiham and Big Lou's situation.

Cat Pride · Post by **Cat Pride** » Tue Apr 26, 2005 8:40 am

wbtfg wrote:Hopefully this is the case in Kaiham and Big Lou's situation.

...and Birkeland, Barnhardt, etc...

Regardless of the injuries, I think this team will be just fine. Matakis was a huge loss, but that hole can and will be plugged!