Welsch

Discuss anything and everything relating to Bobcat Football here.

Moderators: rtb, kmax, SonomaCat

User avatar
wbtfg
Golden Bobcat
Posts: 14378
Joined: Sat Apr 03, 2004 12:52 pm

Welsch

Post by wbtfg » Sun May 22, 2005 9:11 am

I really enjoyed reading the commentary by Welsch. It has to be very difficult for many of these African American athletes coming to Bozeman where they are a huge minority. Unfortunatley both Bozeman and MSU are products of their environment, and will probably always remain a fairly white place to live.

I would love to see Jeff do a follow up piece on this with quotes from athletes with their thoughts of the Bozeman area are, and what everyone around the community can do to make their transition a little easier.
Commentary: Try looking at things from another angle

By Jeff Welsch, Chronicle Sports Editor

Admit it.

When we putter around whitebread Bozeman, where cultural diversity means some Anglos drive 10-year-old bio-diesel Passats and the other Anglos drive sparkling-new SUVs, and we happen upon a young African-American, we instantly think:

Athlete.

Montana State University.

Probably football. Maybe basketball.

Innocently, of course, but nevertheless so.

Yes?

Now let's try putting ourselves in the cleats, er, shoes of an African-American in Bozeman or any other bucolic little college town.

Sure, many will tell us that Bozeman is as accommodating as any place they've lived.

MSU coaches James Clark and Junior Adams, former athletes both, wax enthusiastically about their life-altering experiences here.

And yet, many African-Americans will also tell us that it's impossible to fully appreciate life for a minority in an Anglo-dominant culture like ours.

For a semblance of understanding, we'd have to attend one of Clark and Adams' new weekly Focused and Motivated Minorities gatherings at MSU.

Their mission, explained in a recent story by Carol Schmidt of MSU's News Services, is to provide minority athletes a sanctuary of sorts.

A place to openly share experiences with fellow minorities.

Given that so many African-Americans have found fulfillment here, you might question the need for such a group.

Therein lies the paradox.

Clark, Adams and other African-Americans share an affectionate bond with the Gallatin Valley, yet a disquieting undercurrent also lurks.

This is still a state where some alums grumble about giving football and basketball scholarships to minorities.

This is still such a mono-cultured valley that a white separatist named Kevin McGuire sees fertile ground for the nourishment of his group's twisted views.

Most important, this is still a community where minorities are substantially outnumbered; culture shock is real.

Hence, FAMM.

Though I have yet to attend a FAMM gathering, I was a featured guest at three similar meetings at Oregon State, where Adams' football career began.

The gatherings were born from frustration with police, media and general stereotypes, all simmering until boiling over after an incident involving Adams, several other football players and students at a party.

Emotions were so charged that the African-American friend orchestrating the gatherings was initially apprehensive about me facing a room full of surly 220-pound human monoliths.

That first session, conducted town-hall style, remains one of the most enlightening experiences of my career.

The one and only rule is a sacred Las Vegas-esque "what happens here, stays here," but if you were fortunate enough to enter such a cultural inner circle, you would learn that ...

* African-American athletes in predominantly Anglo communities are on guard against getting pulled over for "driving while black."

* If a black athlete and white woman are walking down the street, the woman might be asked "is everything all right?"

* Minority athletes view the police and media with equal wariness, mistrust or disdain.

Most exasperating is the broad brush minorities are too often painted with in communities lacking cultural diversity.

Stereotypes seem inescapable, even in a well-intentioned valley whose mantra is "Where Rivers and Cultures Meet."

We see an African-American walking down the street, and we not only think "athlete," we also are wont to think "brother from the 'hood who escaped the guns, drugs and gangs of the concrete jungle to find peace, direction and a home here in Pleasantville."

In some cases, it's true; in more cases, it's not.

Each athlete, African-American or otherwise, has a unique yarn to spin.

My industry's primary flaw, I explained at OSU, is that we aren't doing enough to counter stereotypes by taking readers beneath the athletes' armor and jersey numbers.

Show the biology major in a lab coat conducting an experiment. Show the secondary education major reading to school kids. Show the engineer working with structures.

Quite likely, then, as we putter around whitebread Bozeman in our bio-diesel Passats and high-octane SUVs, we'd see an African-American and think:

"Hey, that's the guy who ...!"

Or, better yet, we'd think absolutely nothing at all.
Last edited by wbtfg on Sun May 22, 2005 3:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.



iaafan
Golden Bobcat
Posts: 7660
Joined: Mon May 03, 2004 12:44 pm

Post by iaafan » Sun May 22, 2005 2:48 pm

Another great article, thanks Jeff.


Lets Go, Bye Don!

User avatar
BelgradeBobcat
Golden Bobcat
Posts: 8829
Joined: Mon Mar 29, 2004 9:52 pm
Location: Belgrade, Montana

Post by BelgradeBobcat » Mon May 23, 2005 8:26 am

That was an interesting column.

Whenever I see an African-American in Bozeman I usually think to myself-'What's a dazzling urbanite like you doing in a rustic setting like this?' :lol:



User avatar
Cat Pride
1st Team All-BobcatNation
Posts: 1741
Joined: Mon Mar 29, 2004 1:33 pm
Location: Bobcat Country

Post by Cat Pride » Mon May 23, 2005 8:36 am

Thank you Jeff, and as wbtg said, I'd also like to see a follow-up to this article from black athletes at MSU. and also from black students who arent athletes at MSU, what are their perceptions?

Again, great article Jeff, and thank you Chronicle for finding Jeff!



User avatar
mquast53000
2nd Team All-BobcatNation
Posts: 1233
Joined: Wed Feb 16, 2005 4:45 pm
Location: Billings

Post by mquast53000 » Mon May 23, 2005 10:31 am

Shoot I thought that article was almost racist… I didn’t like it for some reason… Couple of lines in it that made me cringe a little. Welsh for a self proclaimed moderate seemed a little to eager to view the article from one side. Some comments that are statistically inaccurate… JMO. Maybe it is just I don’t like people knocking my utopia… :roll:


FTG

Cat Grad
Golden Bobcat
Posts: 7463
Joined: Mon Dec 13, 2004 11:05 am

Post by Cat Grad » Mon May 23, 2005 10:51 am

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20050523/ap_ ... fox_blacks

Well, considering this is the state that sent the Charlie Pride tapes to Nashville just to pizz off the establishment and they couldn't quit playing his stuff after they found out he was just like Cowboy Troy or Fred Whitfield, or...my response was: insightful or inciteful? Kids have enough on their minds without having to worry about perceptions when they're put on a pedestal, and all our athletes are held in high regard in the Valley. Our coaches do a great job explaining the Fox types running around loose in this state. I'm sure Junior has many stories to tell about when he was small around Ft. Benning--now if he could get some of those kids from Shaw up here :wink: Or a couple corners from LaGrange...ya'll know that little school just outside Columbus that has seven corners in the NFL.



User avatar
BozoneCat
BobcatNation Hall of Famer
Posts: 3227
Joined: Mon Mar 29, 2004 7:15 pm
Location: Boise, ID

Post by BozoneCat » Mon May 23, 2005 11:54 am

I liked the article, and I thought it took big brass ones to put something like that in print. We all know that the lack of diversity in Montana is an unfortunate reality, but the subject is one that is usually not discussed - especially in the local newspaper. Hopefully, articles like this can be a step in the right direction towards changing people's attitudes and perceptions of African-American people. Myself, I love it when I see people of all different races out and about here in Bozeman - it shows that our town is slowly moving in the right direction. Even more than that, I love to see African-American former athletes choosing to remain in Bozeman after their playing days are through - people like Junior Adams, James Clark, and others (clothing store in mall) can set a great example for newcomers to show them that Bozeman is a great place for everyone!


GO CATS GO!!!

Image

Cat Grad
Golden Bobcat
Posts: 7463
Joined: Mon Dec 13, 2004 11:05 am

Post by Cat Grad » Mon May 23, 2005 12:07 pm

I guess I like the idea that we shouldn't have to point out that somebody is "different" and will "fit in" in lily white Bozo.



User avatar
Bleedinbluengold
BobcatNation Hall of Famer
Posts: 3427
Joined: Mon Apr 05, 2004 10:24 am
Location: Belly of the Beast

Post by Bleedinbluengold » Mon May 23, 2005 1:17 pm

Welsh hit the nail on the head..."think absolutely nothing all."

Next step: Say, "Hi."



Cat Grad
Golden Bobcat
Posts: 7463
Joined: Mon Dec 13, 2004 11:05 am

Post by Cat Grad » Mon May 23, 2005 1:47 pm

Thank you. But then he wouldn't have had an article :roll:



WetWaderMT
BobcatNation Team Captain
Posts: 565
Joined: Mon Mar 29, 2004 4:32 pm
Location: Big Sky Country

Post by WetWaderMT » Tue May 24, 2005 8:44 pm

Do you all mind if I bring some reality to this entire discussion w/ and/or about Mr. Welsch?

While I agree that the Chomical has improved its sports coverage, more than likely due to Jeff's hiring, Mr. Welsch's attitude and commentary about Bozeman/Montana/The Big Sky leads me to one conclusion. The reason he isn't going to be, and doesn't want to be, "a home town guy" is because he has NO desire to be! His entire ambiance is one of, "I'll suffer through these next two or three years w/o creating any alligances, prove my ability to be unbiased in one of the most 'biased' (which you all have to have the brains to realize are his feelings, what was his most recent article about...pointing out our 'lily whiteness') regions of the country, and move on to a better, bigger, HIGHER PAYING job in some area of the country where he can revert to writing about how pathetic Bozeman/Montana/The Big Sky are and laugh all the way to the bank. If you don't believe me...check out his opinions/commentary while he was in Boise or Portland.

Call me jaded, call me insightful...one of these days you'll all be wondering why he moved to Bozeman, when he was completely aware of the MSU/UMmmm rivalry before hand, with the idea of being completely neutral. And for all you "doubters," take a look at the papers of LA, or Chapel Hill/Durham, or Detroit...all of them have sports writers who take a stand and pledge their allegiance to one team or another w/o shame. And, anyone that thinks that Bozeman should be "above" all that doesn't truely want to live here or be here.

Bring on the hate mail from all the "lovers" of the most recent sports editor at the Chomical. Granted, he's gotten this site much more publicity than it could have ever gotten on its own, but his using of the site for his personal (read, non-MSU) gains will make most of the viewers/posters of this site wish he'd never have mentioned us, because he'll be mentioning us in the future in jest.



Jeff Welsch
BobcatNation Redshirt
Posts: 32
Joined: Wed Jan 19, 2005 12:42 pm

Post by Jeff Welsch » Wed May 25, 2005 12:29 am

WetWaderMT wrote:Do you all mind if I bring some reality to this entire discussion w/ and/or about Mr. Welsch?

While I agree that the Chomical has improved its sports coverage, more than likely due to Jeff's hiring, Mr. Welsch's attitude and commentary about Bozeman/Montana/The Big Sky leads me to one conclusion. The reason he isn't going to be, and doesn't want to be, "a home town guy" is because he has NO desire to be! His entire ambiance is one of, "I'll suffer through these next two or three years w/o creating any alligances, prove my ability to be unbiased in one of the most 'biased' (which you all have to have the brains to realize are his feelings, what was his most recent article about...pointing out our 'lily whiteness') regions of the country, and move on to a better, bigger, HIGHER PAYING job in some area of the country where he can revert to writing about how pathetic Bozeman/Montana/The Big Sky are and laugh all the way to the bank. If you don't believe me...check out his opinions/commentary while he was in Boise or Portland.

Call me jaded, call me insightful...one of these days you'll all be wondering why he moved to Bozeman, when he was completely aware of the MSU/UMmmm rivalry before hand, with the idea of being completely neutral. And for all you "doubters," take a look at the papers of LA, or Chapel Hill/Durham, or Detroit...all of them have sports writers who take a stand and pledge their allegiance to one team or another w/o shame. And, anyone that thinks that Bozeman should be "above" all that doesn't truely want to live here or be here.

Bring on the hate mail from all the "lovers" of the most recent sports editor at the Chomical. Granted, he's gotten this site much more publicity than it could have ever gotten on its own, but his using of the site for his personal (read, non-MSU) gains will make most of the viewers/posters of this site wish he'd never have mentioned us, because he'll be mentioning us in the future in jest.
Bozeman a stepping stone? You obviously haven't seen my resume (which doesn't include Portland, BTW). Been there, done that, here to stay -- which is why I've been trying to cultivate a rapport here.

Too bad you don't hold the Gallatin Valley and Montana in as much esteem as my wife and I do ...

BTW, the fans at Duke, UNC, UCLA, USC, Michigan and Michigan State would :roll: at your assertion that beat writers pledge allegiance to the local team. So would the writers. However, if you can give me a link to any example, I'm all eyes ...



iaafan
Golden Bobcat
Posts: 7660
Joined: Mon May 03, 2004 12:44 pm

Post by iaafan » Wed May 25, 2005 5:54 am

WWMT - Sorry, but you'll need bigger waders to keep from being all wet on this one. Any sportswriter who 'pledges allegiance' to the home team loses points with me. I want Jeff to simply tell like it is or at least like he honestly sees it. Anything else is fluff. The truth hurts, but it's not as painful as a pathetic attempt to look at things through rose colored glasses.



Cat Grad
Golden Bobcat
Posts: 7463
Joined: Mon Dec 13, 2004 11:05 am

Post by Cat Grad » Wed May 25, 2005 8:07 am

1AAfan has to be referring to Rial Cummings :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:



User avatar
Cat-theotherwhitemeat
BobcatNation Hall of Famer
Posts: 3156
Joined: Wed Mar 31, 2004 5:45 pm
Location: Billings
Contact:

Post by Cat-theotherwhitemeat » Wed May 25, 2005 8:49 am

Something gives me the feeling that WetWader doesn't like Mr. Welsch. Jeff, you didn't steal his girl did you? :)

Wet, I think your analysis of Mr. Welsch is unfair to say the least, even if Bozeman was just a stepping stone. Your post isn't insightful, it's spiteful. You're calling him a guilty man before any crime was commited. I'm not saying you have to kiss his arse but why not let the man write the way he wants, and then let everyone decide whether or not it's worth the paper it's written on.


My avatar does not now, nor has in the past, depict a person of mentally challenged state. If you have a problem with it, please call the U.S. department of Bite my A$$. MTBuff/Administrator.

User avatar
Bleedinbluengold
BobcatNation Hall of Famer
Posts: 3427
Joined: Mon Apr 05, 2004 10:24 am
Location: Belly of the Beast

Post by Bleedinbluengold » Wed May 25, 2005 9:16 am

Cat Grad wrote:1AAfan has to be referring to Rial Cummings :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
One of Hauck's biggest critics has been Rial...check the record. On the other hand, he gave the FB team credit last year for accomplishing what they did...who wouldn't?



User avatar
SonomaCat
Moderator
Posts: 23999
Joined: Tue Mar 09, 2004 7:56 pm
Location: Sonoma County, CA
Contact:

Post by SonomaCat » Wed May 25, 2005 9:37 am

WetWaderMT wrote:Call me jaded, call me insightful...
I would say neither of the above. How about cynical at best, paranoid at the median, and delusional at worst.



User avatar
mquast53000
2nd Team All-BobcatNation
Posts: 1233
Joined: Wed Feb 16, 2005 4:45 pm
Location: Billings

Post by mquast53000 » Wed May 25, 2005 9:52 am

Okay Mr. Welsch here are my problems with this article. I am ready for some hate mail from our posters, but here we go...
This is still a state where some alums grumble about giving football and basketball scholarships to minorities.

-I think that as a reporter if you print commments like this you should back them up with some type of proof instead of an assumption. We all can make outragous assumptions…
This is still such a mono-cultured valley that a white separatist named Kevin McGuire sees fertile ground for the nourishment of his group's twisted views.

-3.6% of all voters? You think that it would have been lower in the South were there is a higher African American population?
African-American athletes in predominantly Anglo communities are on guard against getting pulled over for "driving while black."

* If a black athlete and white woman are walking down the street, the woman might be asked "is everything all right?"

* Minority athletes view the police and media with equal wariness, mistrust or disdain.
-This is a lot like the Newsweek article… Can’t you get a quote from someone about these types of occurances? At least if there was a written record of these sorts of occurrences, then there would be some changes made in the Police Dept.
When we putter around whitebread Bozeman, where cultural diversity means some Anglos drive 10-year-old bio-diesel Passats and the other Anglos drive sparkling-new SUVs...
-This remark is racist. I know that white people are not suppose to say things are racist, but there you have it I feel this is a racist remark. Whitebread? Are you kidding, you won’t say something bad about the Griz, but you will knock the people in Gallatin Valley?


FTG

User avatar
SonomaCat
Moderator
Posts: 23999
Joined: Tue Mar 09, 2004 7:56 pm
Location: Sonoma County, CA
Contact:

Post by SonomaCat » Wed May 25, 2005 10:07 am

I personally see nothing racist or negative about the article. I have been told the same sorts of things by minorities living in Bozeman (and my ex-girlfriend, when she and I were there for a few days), and the same would apply to any area that is predominately white (which Bozeman obviously is). He wasn't calling out Bozeman as being any worse than anyplace else -- he was simply enlightening people as to the perspectives of minorities, which I think is always a good thing, whether it be me walking down 125th Street in NYC or an African-American walking down the streets of Bozeman.

He didn't suggest any hostility on the part of the people of Gallatin Valley, but spoke only of the perceptions from minorities.

And it scares me, too, that the Aryan feels comfortable there. He obviously doesn't have a lot of support, but I think the point is that a guy like that wouldn't be so bold in a place with a less homogenous population. That doesn't mean that Gallatin Valley is a hotbed of racism, but it's just another point in illustrating how intimidating such an area could be for somebody who isn't in the majority.

Whitebread isn't all that derogatory -- I use that term to describe Montana all of the time. It's just a cuter way of saying homogenous, and isn't meant (when I use it) as a negative -- just a fact.

I think the article was meant to make people a little uncomfortable, which is necessary when speaking of issues like this. It's necessary to shake people up a little bit to get them to see things from a perspective they aren't used to. As a result, I can see some people being a little defensive. But to say that anything in the article was racist is, in my opinion, a bit of stretch.
Last edited by SonomaCat on Wed May 25, 2005 10:08 am, edited 1 time in total.



User avatar
Cat Pride
1st Team All-BobcatNation
Posts: 1741
Joined: Mon Mar 29, 2004 1:33 pm
Location: Bobcat Country

Post by Cat Pride » Wed May 25, 2005 10:08 am

I thought that was a really good article, and dont think Jeff meant it like you put it, but you make some solid solid points Quast. I cant argue with a single one of those. Even though they are snippets of his article, I wouldnt say they were taken out of context either.



Post Reply