Preseason Poll

Cat Grad · Post by **Cat Grad** » Wed May 25, 2005 6:35 pm

ECFizzle: You're betting the Fizzlies take first, correct? I'll wager you they don't.

grizzh8r · Post by **grizzh8r** » Wed May 25, 2005 6:56 pm

Eastcoastgriz wrote:
grizzh8r wrote:
Grizlaw wrote:...we all know that there are some top D-II teams that are better than the bottom of the barrel I-AA teams....
Hrmmm... that brings back memories of a few years ago when the Griz lost to NoDak, at the time a D-II team... And that Griz team was not by any means "bottom of the barrel." Goes back to the old saying "Any given Sunday...", or in this case, Saturday
I dont think we have to go very far back to find a D-II team that beat the cats.

In all honesty, It wasn't meant as smack, just a recent reminder that upsets do happen, as Grizlaw stated.

In 2002 we lost to D-II Central Wa. But the loss to NoDak was in 2003, more recent history.

SausageCrotch · Post by **SausageCrotch** » Wed May 25, 2005 7:45 pm

Cat Grad wrote:ECFizzle: You're betting the Fizzlies take first, correct? I'll wager you they don't.

You could run yourself into bankruptcy pretty quick making wagers like that CatGrad. The Griz will have a new quarterback and new receivers this year, but if you think the guys coming in are going to suck you're in for a big surprise. EWU will be good, but not good enough from keeping the Griz from winning yet another conference championship. And when that happens, remember where you heard it first.

ralph · Post by **ralph** » Wed May 25, 2005 8:17 pm

CelticCat wrote:... Most of the voters on the AGS poll are east-coasters, and the simple fact is they don't know a ton about our teams ...

Big Sky Bias = Anyone East of Big Sky schools are "east-coasters" who don't know anything about the Big Sky.

Post by **kmax** » Wed May 25, 2005 10:09 pm

ralph wrote:
CelticCat wrote:... Most of the voters on the AGS poll are east-coasters, and the simple fact is they don't know a ton about our teams ...
Big Sky Bias = Anyone East of Big Sky schools are "east-coasters" who don't know anything about the Big Sky.

Come on now Ralph, we don't all feel like that. Like I said from the posters on AGS that were sharing their votes it looks like many easterners were ranking all Big Sky teams higher than some of the western posters.

ralph · Post by **ralph** » Thu May 26, 2005 1:11 am

kmax wrote:
ralph wrote:
CelticCat wrote:... Most of the voters on the AGS poll are east-coasters, and the simple fact is they don't know a ton about our teams ...
Big Sky Bias = Anyone East of Big Sky schools are "east-coasters" who don't know anything about the Big Sky.
Come on now Ralph, we don't all feel like that. Like I said from the posters on AGS that were sharing their votes it looks like many easterners were ranking all Big Sky teams higher than some of the western posters.

Naw, I just defined those who have the bias (BTW, what do you mean by "easterners"? Am I an "easterner" in Chicago?).

Post by **kmax** » Thu May 26, 2005 10:12 am

ralph wrote:
kmax wrote:
ralph wrote:
CelticCat wrote:... Most of the voters on the AGS poll are east-coasters, and the simple fact is they don't know a ton about our teams ...
Big Sky Bias = Anyone East of Big Sky schools are "east-coasters" who don't know anything about the Big Sky.
Come on now Ralph, we don't all feel like that. Like I said from the posters on AGS that were sharing their votes it looks like many easterners were ranking all Big Sky teams higher than some of the western posters.
Naw, I just defined those who have the bias (BTW, what do you mean by "easterners"? Am I an "easterner" in Chicago?).

You know when I wrote my comment I thought about putting easterners in quotes so it may be more clear I was using it in a general way. For the purposes of my quote I am mostly talking A10 fans as those are most of the votes I saw and was refering too. Nothing derogatory intended there and your not too much of an easterner, but you are more east than I am.

El_Gato · Post by **El_Gato** » Thu May 26, 2005 10:34 am

Grizlaw wrote:...and we have enough studs at other skill positions that our team will be fine...

Could you please name them?

I know you'll say Hilliard (despite only 64 yards on his last 26 carries, with 1 TD and a long of 9 yards; very "un-stud-like"). But what other skill position studs are you referring to?

Grizlaw · Post by **Grizlaw** » Thu May 26, 2005 11:11 am

El_Gato wrote:
Could you please name them?

I know you'll say Hilliard (despite only 64 yards on his last 26 carries, with 1 TD and a long of 9 yards; very "un-stud-like"). But what other skill position studs are you referring to?

First, I love how you tried to make Lex look bad by looking at his "last 26 carries," instead of just looking at his season. I bet if I went through Lulay's entire season, I could probably find a string of 26 pass attempts where he looks a little less than "stud-like" too; does that mean he's not as good as everyone thinks he is? Have you ever thought about law school?

Anyway -- aside from Lex (who is a stud, despite any twisted logic you may use to argue otherwise), I actually think our WRs are going to be awesome next year as well. I know Talmage has never put up great stats, but he is a great player and has made some amazing catches for us the past few years, and without Heidleberger and Segars to overshadow him, I think he'll be special. Aside from him, our WRs are untested, but physically they're impressive, and I have to believe that among Allen, Troxel and Bagley, at least one will step up.

Anyway, those are my thoughts for now. Work calls; I'll try to get back to this later.

Cat-theotherwhitemeat · Post by **Cat-theotherwhitemeat** » Thu May 26, 2005 11:14 am

El_Gato wrote:
Grizlaw wrote:...and we have enough studs at other skill positions that our team will be fine...
Could you please name them?

I know you'll say Hilliard (despite only 64 yards on his last 26 carries, with 1 TD and a long of 9 yards; very "un-stud-like"). But what other skill position studs are you referring to?

A lot of people talk about Hilliard, and rightly so. However, I think the big surprise from the Griz this year will be their receivers. I've heard the transfer is going to be a stud, plus Talmage, Bagley, Shulte, and a couple others could really have great years. Also, don't forget about Waller. He's a more than capable backup that would start on a lot of teams. I think this year could be a lot like last year with a lot of young talent that comes together near the end of the season. Especially on offense.

Cat-theotherwhitemeat · Post by **Cat-theotherwhitemeat** » Thu May 26, 2005 11:17 am

Almost forgot....

Simpson, Ja'Ton is a fine Tight End.

mquast53000 · Post by **mquast53000** » Thu May 26, 2005 11:22 am

I've heard the transfer is going to be a stud..

Come on Meat, your QB transfer was suppose to be a stud... Stop relying of transfers to make an argument about your "great offense."

Grizlaw · Post by **Grizlaw** » Thu May 26, 2005 11:28 am

mquast53000 wrote: Come on Meat, your QB transfer was suppose to be a stud... Stop relying of transfers to make an argument about your "great offense."

Actually, I've never heard anyone argue that Washington was going to be a "stud," even before spring ball. I think the Griz have had enough transfers over the years to know better than to assume that someone is great just because they're from a I-A school; however, the WR transfer (Allen, yes? I'm blanking on the name...) is supposed to be the real deal.

We'll see...like I said before, I'm not predicting that any one player from that group will be great; I'm just predicting that, with the athletes we have at that position, somebody has to be.

Cat-theotherwhitemeat · Post by **Cat-theotherwhitemeat** » Thu May 26, 2005 11:28 am

mquast53000 wrote:
I've heard the transfer is going to be a stud..
Come on Meat, your QB transfer was suppose to be a stud... Stop relying of transfers to make an argument about your "great offense."

I have yet to say anything about the QB transfer and didn't think he was supposed to be a stud. I'm going by reports from spring ball and a couple of the players. I don't know about the offense being "great", but I think they'll be better off than most here predict. Now, if one of those qb's comes out and surprises everyone than it could be a special year because, as Grizlaw pointed out, the other positions aren't looking too bad. I'm not holding my breath that the qb's will be stellar, mind you. From spring ball, they didn't overly impress. Allen did.

El_Gato · Post by **El_Gato** » Thu May 26, 2005 11:30 am

law,

I'm not arguing Lex is a stud; I'd love to have him line up behind Travis Lulay for 15 games. My comments are simply meant to say look what happened when your last 2 opponents set out to stop him: They did and quite effectively, I might add. If I were a griz fan (insert your own joke here), that would cause me to raise an eyebrow, especially when you consider that Craig Ochs won't be back there racking up yards with his arm and his feet.

Talmage is OVERRATED. 4 receptions/game, 60 yards/game last season. DEFINITELY NOT a "stud". This season, he will not be overshadowed, as you say, but he'll also draw the other teams best cover-guy simply because he is the only "known quantity" at receiver. I'd be amazed if Talmage posts more than a 20% improvement in any category this season. I won't be at all surprised if he ends up with LESS #'s. (BTW, don't bother talking up ANY Griz skill player other than Lex until after the Oregon game; you simply don't have anyone who's proven it on the field and the Fort Lewis High game won't be any indication; any talk of players not named Lex Hilliard is simply hype/speculation)

As for the rest? I'm sorry, but you failed to mention any of your plethora of returning/incoming "studs". Bottom line is your best 3 and 5 of your top 7 receivers are gone and you have zero quarterbacks with any real-time experience. Does that mean they'll suck? Of course not; the point here is that your optimism is based on tradition and bias rather than on what's been DEMONSTRATED by the players on the field. It's fine to be a "rah-rah" guy, but you griz fans have to go into this season more uneasy than at anytime in the past 10 years, I'd say. That being said, your "don't worry about us, we'll be fine" attitude smells more like arrogance and assumption than fact...

The prosecution rests...

mquast53000 · Post by **mquast53000** » Thu May 26, 2005 11:35 am

Go put that in your pipe and smoke it…

Cat-theotherwhitemeat · Post by **Cat-theotherwhitemeat** » Thu May 26, 2005 11:44 am

mquast53000 wrote:Go put that in your pipe and smoke it…

I have a prescription for that.

El, predicting what players are going to step and be "stars" is what it's all about. Of course they are guesses and yes, we are biased. But we (or at least I) go to all, if not most of the games and watch. We either go or get reports on the practices and spring ball. We talk to the players or anyone that will listen. All of this to get an idea, just an idea of who will step up the following year. History has proven over the last 10+ years that the Griz have had players step up and be those "stars". Is it optimism that they will do it again...yes. But it's that way for a lot years. After Drew Miller graduated everyone thought the sky was falling on the qb position and whamo.....John Edwards. I believe last year before the season started a lot of Cat fans were saying that Ochs sucked, was over-rated, wouldn't last a season.....oops. Just keep thinking that.

Grizlaw · Post by **Grizlaw** » Thu May 26, 2005 11:57 am

Gato:

Re: Talmage, I think we'll just have to agree to disagree. I've seen him make enough great plays these past two years to know that he can play. Can I "prove" it? No. You cited his stats as being unimpressive; personally I think 55 catches for just over 800 yards is pretty impressive when you're, at best, the third option on the team. When he's been given opportunities, he's made plays. Period.

Re: everyone else -- I don't know what to tell you. According to your logic, no one who didn't get extensive playing time last year is worth discussing, so I won't bother. All I'll say is that we've got WRs who are big and fast, and who have done well at the levels at which they have played, and we've got a lot of them. Again, I can't "prove" anything, but I'm confident someone from the group will step up. You're right; I don't have "facts" to back anything up (is there really such a thing as "facts" in preseason?), but this isn't just blind team loyalty, either; I have actually thought about our team and formed a reasoned opinion.

Re: the rest of your b/s, I'll just assume that what you meant to say was that you respectfully disagree with my assessment of our team, and you think we'll suck next year.

--GL (ok back to work...for real this time)

Cat Grad · Post by **Cat Grad** » Thu May 26, 2005 12:17 pm

I notice this year all of NAUs games are afternoon games (except Adams State) so the Fizzlies won't have to play in Flagstaff at night on Nov 5, get back to Mazzola late Sunday and then play a night game in Sacramento on Nov 12. Convenient.

SausageCrotch · Post by **SausageCrotch** » Thu May 26, 2005 12:48 pm

El_Gato wrote:law,

I'm not arguing Lex is a stud; I'd love to have him line up behind Travis Lulay for 15 games. My comments are simply meant to say look what happened when your last 2 opponents set out to stop him: They did and quite effectively, I might add. If I were a griz fan (insert your own joke here), that would cause me to raise an eyebrow, especially when you consider that Craig Ochs won't be back there racking up yards with his arm and his feet.

Talmage is OVERRATED. 4 receptions/game, 60 yards/game last season. DEFINITELY NOT a "stud". This season, he will not be overshadowed, as you say, but he'll also draw the other teams best cover-guy simply because he is the only "known quantity" at receiver. I'd be amazed if Talmage posts more than a 20% improvement in any category this season. I won't be at all surprised if he ends up with LESS #'s. (BTW, don't bother talking up ANY Griz skill player other than Lex until after the Oregon game; you simply don't have anyone who's proven it on the field and the Fort Lewis High game won't be any indication; any talk of players not named Lex Hilliard is simply hype/speculation)

As for the rest? I'm sorry, but you failed to mention any of your plethora of returning/incoming "studs". Bottom line is your best 3 and 5 of your top 7 receivers are gone and you have zero quarterbacks with any real-time experience. Does that mean they'll suck? Of course not; the point here is that your optimism is based on tradition and bias rather than on what's been DEMONSTRATED by the players on the field. It's fine to be a "rah-rah" guy, but you griz fans have to go into this season more uneasy than at anytime in the past 10 years, I'd say. That being said, your "don't worry about us, we'll be fine" attitude smells more like arrogance and assumption than fact...

The prosecution rests...

Your rhetoric is all too familiar, Gato. Last year you were saying the same about Heidleberger and LV, and that Ochs wouldn't last the entire season. But don't let that tidbit distract you from convincing yourself the Griz offense will be sub-par, it will just mean that the big boot of reality will kick you that much harder in the butt come football season.