Preseason Poll

[Cat Grad]

Yeah right, that's the one (guess we'll cut ya'll some slack because of the impending marriage and all--plus being related to those players on the dark side)

[JahGriz]

I don't know gato, I certainly wouldn't say only Griz fans over estimate what some players are going to do, and by the way, we fans are sometimes right in our assesments, and also many times miss looking at guys who aren't hyped who end up being great.(Kroy Bierman is going to be a stud, but did you hear any Griz fans talking him up, as opposed to Bagely) This year, sure, the Griz have a lot of unproven guys, last year, the cats did. I personally though Milton and Dominick looked great on paper, and both even had proven themselves to some extent. I don't know if Milton got hurt or what, but I dont' recall him doing anything. Dominick has plenty of room for improvement.
Though probably not the greatest example, because Dominick was solid, but not consistant. If needed I'll come up with better examples for you cat fans. The point being, and made by gato, everybody coming out of H.S. looks all world, but not a lot of those recruits end up that way. And cat wise, a lot of transfers look all world, but I've seen plenty wash out.
But if we always had a wait and see attitude and didn't speculate, these boards would be dead.

[Grizlaw]

But if we always had a wait and see attitude and didn't speculate, these boards would be dead.

Be careful though, Jah. Speculation is fine as long as you don't speculate that a player's previous credentials indicate that he might actually be good -- if you do that, you'll be labeled "arrogant."

[Cat-theotherwhitemeat]

But if we always had a wait and see attitude and didn't speculate, these boards would be dead.

Be careful though, Jah. Speculation is fine as long as you don't speculate that a player's previous credentials indicate that he might actually be good -- if you do that, you'll be labeled "arrogant."

You had to spice it up in here didn't ya.

However, I'll predict right here, right now, that Thomas Brooks-Fletcher, an incoming freshman next year, will be a Grizzly great before it's all said and done.

[Grizlaw]

To automatically predict that you'll have "a number of studs" is based on NOTHING but speculation, assumption, and yes, unfortunately, arrogance.

Gato -- it seems to me that it is YOU who does not read other peoples' posts.

You asked me to name who the Griz have returning next year that I would consider a "stud." I named Lex and Talmage -- Talmage, based on having seen him play for two years, and Lex, who I think most of us agree on (although you did pick on his last couple games; whatever your intent was with that). You disagree about Talmage, and that's fine, but my opinion is what it is, and that's based on what I've seen him do on the field, NOT on speculation or arrogance.

Aside from those two, I listed several other players who, yes, are untested, but who appear to have promise, and then I SPECULATED (and I'm pretty sure I said I was speculating at that point) that at least one of them would likely step up. I didn't predict any specific player, but I speculated that among Allen, Troxel, Bagley, etc. SOMEBODY would step up.

Anyway -- that's my story, and I'm sticking to it. If you disagree with me, that's fine. But don't act like I ignored your post and didn't address your question, because I did. You asked me to name Griz players who will be studs next year; I named two and speculated that one of several others would be too. You responded by discounting the players I mentioned and then pretending like I didn't name any.

Frankly, I couldn't care less whether or not you think I'm arrogant, but I will call you out for making intellectually dishonest arguments every time.

--GL

[mquast53000]

Hey Jah, what a player looks like in spring ball doesn’t matter either. You can talk about how great a guy looked in a scrimmage, but when it gets down to it scrimmages are meaningless! Speculations based off of spring ball performance are non-sense. The Griz have a lot to prove the first part of the season, and more then one guy has to step to the plate this year.

[Grizlaw]

Hey Jah, what a player looks like in spring ball doesn’t matter either. You can talk about how great a guy looked in a scrimmage, but when it gets down to it scrimmages are meaningless! Speculations based off of spring ball performance are non-sense. The Griz have a lot to prove the first part of the season, and more then one guy has to step to the plate this year.

Of course, when you say scrimmages are meaningless, I assume what you mean is "scrimmages are meaningless, unless a team's offense looks weak during spring ball, in which case they should be cited as very persuasive evidence that the team's offense will suck during the season."

Am I close?

[mquast53000]

Hey Jah, what a player looks like in spring ball doesn’t matter either. You can talk about how great a guy looked in a scrimmage, but when it gets down to it scrimmages are meaningless! Speculations based off of spring ball performance are non-sense. The Griz have a lot to prove the first part of the season, and more then one guy has to step to the plate this year.

Of course, when you say scrimmages are meaningless, I assume what you mean is "scrimmages are meaningless, unless a team's offense looks weak during spring ball, in which case they should be cited as very persuasive evidence that the team's offense will suck during the season."

Am I close?

Scrimmages are pointless when you are talking about the Griz possibly having any offensive weapons… Scrimmages are accurate when it gives us Bobcats ammunition to bash the Griz’s offense… Very simple when you get right down to it. The Griz’s spring ball playmakers are unproven, and the offense that couldn’t gel during spring ball has proven that they are worthless. This is a very logical and accurate way to measure the Griz’s football team.

You don't win many cases as a lawyer do ya?

[El_Gato]

I'm guessing that grizlaw found out that he failed to make partner again today; he's in a very pissy mood.

law, I CLEARLY stated why I focused on Hilliard's last 2 games. Once again, you demonstrate your inability to read or your lack of focus.

No wonder you haven't made partner...

by the way law, I'm just needling you; I'm only trying to point out that at this point you are relying on about 75% speculation and 25% direct evidence; that & the fact that I doubt you're truly as confident as you claim to be here. If you are, good luck!

[Grizlaw]

You don't win many cases as a lawyer do ya?

No, but I'd probably win more if I didn't spend all day on here arguing with you guys.

--GL (I'd probably win more if I was a litigator instead of a tax lawyer, too. Oh well...)

[JahGriz]

mqauast, I agree how a player looks in spring ball and scrimmages proves nothing, but it is one of many indicators. I certainly wouldn't say how a player looks in spring ball or scrums doesn't matter. Are you kidding me. It matters, because it may mean they don't make the team for one, it matters because that is where coaches get evaluate what they have and start getting a feel for who is going to be a player and who needs improvement. It just doesn't prove anything, that is done on the field come game time.
The Griz have something to prove every year, we fans may give them the benefit of the doubt, but opposing team don't, opposing teams are gunning for the Griz every year. They circle the game on their calendars. They wish other teams they just played luck at beating the Griz. They chear when the Griz loose. Any of this ringing a bell cat fans.
And yet, after all of that, and all of the questionable recruits, questionable coaches, questionable play calling, questionable off the cuff remarks, etc, they just keep winning.
Hmm, I suppose it is all of the Griz bias across the country..right. All of the luck right, like all of the luck we had with injuries in 2002 and 2003. Didn't stop the Griz from winning or sharing the conference title.
Though, injuries did do a number on the cats last year. Right? Not that you were making excuses when you mentioned...like us Griz fans did in 2002 and 2003. We were making excused, you guys were just stating it as a fact.

[El_Gato]

BTW, Jah,

Nice to see your transformation. I remembered you as just another smack talker before I left for a few months. You are now a reasonable, thoughtful, and analytical griz fan. Wait! Is that really possible? JK

Anyway, assuming this is REALLY jahgriz, thanks for the comments!

[Grizlaw]

I'm guessing that grizlaw found out that he failed to make partner again today; he's in a very pissy mood.

law, I CLEARLY stated why I focused on Hilliard's last 2 games. Once again, you demonstrate your inability to read or your lack of focus.

No wonder you haven't made partner...

Gato, I did read your after-the-fact explanation of why you said you focused on Lex's last two games, and if you had stated all of that as your point in the first place, I would probably have believed it. The reality is, your first post sounded like you were trying to bash Lex, and your second post came out sounding a lot like a convenient explanation for why you made a bad argument in your first post. Frankly, if I unquestioningly bought what you said in your second post, I think that would speak more negatively about my partnership prospects than the skepticism I have shown here.

None of this matters, of course -- in your heart, you know what your intention was, and what it sounded like to me is just my opinion, which I don't expect to matter to you.

Anyway, this has been fun, but I think this little debate has pretty much run its course, and the conference call that I've been diligently sitting in my office waiting for just got cancelled, so I'm going to go have a beer and go home. Despite my apparent "pissiness," I have actually enjoyed this discussion.

Later,

--GL

[El_Gato]

law,

As a lawyer, I'm going to assume you read my "fine print".

Hope you enjoy(ed) the beer(s)!

Later.

[JahGriz]

BTW, Jah,

Nice to see your transformation. I remembered you as just another smack talker before I left for a few months. You are now a reasonable, thoughtful, and analytical griz fan. Wait! Is that really possible? JK

Anyway, assuming this is REALLY jahgriz, thanks for the comments!

Me..a smack talker? Must have caught me on a bad day. I might sneak some smack in, but I like to give my honest assesment.
Though, I've got to sugarcoat just a tad at times, so as not to loose any friends.

[GOKATS]

The 2 teams I always root for, as always:
1. MSU &
2. Whoever is playing the Fizz!

[Grizlaw]

Thanks Gato. I will enjoy them (and it will be plural).

[GOKATS]

Oh Great! Another drunk lawyer!

Just kidding GL, after our little tryst the other day, I have realized that you are posing an optimistic, not "arrogant", view of the upcoming season.

Love beer myself- enjoy!

[ralph]

... You can't just log on to ESPN and read a bunch of analysis and predictions from so called experts. You have to spend hours and hours researching it yourself, visiting message boards, and so on. It wasn't a slam on fans of the eastern teams, just stating my belief that not too many people know half as much about other conferences as they do about their own in IAA. I apologize for sounding presumptuous.

I hear that but I must say I never go to ESPN for anything. They are so mistake ridden and I-A drivel filled that I have really tuned them out. Yes it takes longer to research I-AA nationwide but some sites do try to help and fans like yourself are driving that aspiration. Keep it up and lets get the word out.

[Eastcoastgriz]

WOW!

And you griz fans say WE'RE touchy?

You fellas (grizlaw, crotch(which is where your head is buried, btw)) don't really READ anything, do you?

I admitted MANY TIMES that the current crop of Griz MAY end up being good. The point I'm so miserably failing to make, obviously, is that YOU DON'T KNOW AND THAT YOU ALL SIMPLY ASSUME THEY WILL BE GREAT BECAUSE THEY PLAY FOR THE ALMIGHTY GRIZ.

The difference I'm trying to highlight to you griz-colored-glasses folk is that YOU JUST DON'T REALLY KNOW and that your assumptions are based on little more than hope and the past history of your program. I'm not blaming you for that; I'm sure I'd be in a similar frame of mind if I were a griz fan. I'm simply pointing out that for once, you CANNOT BE SURE what you're going to have. To automatically predict that you'll have "a number of studs" is based on NOTHING but speculation, assumption, and yes, unfortunately, arrogance.

The Cats, on the other hand, pretty much know the LEAST we can expect out of Lulay, Domenick, Gatewood, Guinn and a number of other players. So we ARE expecting that our offense will be pretty damn good because we have 13 of our top 15 offensive players back from an offense that was very good by the end of last season. It's no different than you griz fans being high on your D because most of them are back.

Please note: I HAVE NOT PREDICTED that the 2005 Grizzly offense will be bad or even mediocre. I've simply raised the fact that based on their individual performances & experience, YOU HAVE NO IDEA HOW GOOD OR BAD THEY'RE GOING TO BE and how BLINDED a number of you griz fans are by the past and the assumptions you make based on that alone.

Gato,

We have had many questions over the past ten plus years. New quarterbacks, hurt quarterbacks, etc, etc. We have a great nucleus of seasoned players, that, the talent brought in this year and our winning attitude will result in another BSC crown for the GRIZ.

If any one is being arrogant on this board it would be the cats, every one of you has the cats finishing 1st. Lets get real.