Harlem Forfeit

[Billings_Griz]

I talked to a couple C coaches yesterday and in their meetings yesterday morning this was probably the most talked about subject. It sucks for Harlem but probably sucks more for the kid that did it.

BTW, there were NO dunks in pregame yesterday. The only dunk came in the 1st minute of the 1st game. One of Big Sandy's studs had a nice jam.

[GrizinWashington]

The same rule applies in college. A St. Mary's player dunked in warm-ups prior to the WCC title game, and they trailed the Zags 1-0 before the opening tip (Boulden missed the 2nd FT).

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[BearCat]

Refs generally come out on the floor around the 15 minute mark. Before they come out players can do what ever. Once the refs are out dunking should stop or technicals should be called unless the refs don't see it. What constitutes as a dunk may differ between fans but actual snapping or hanging on the rim would cause a tech. If a player is able to throw the ball threw the cylander without touching the rim that is legal. Only during tournament time is a broken rim or backboard considered a forfiet. I would imagine it has something to do with availabiliy, maintenance, and keeping a schedule of multiple games. I don't know if this rule should be changed but I don't feel sorry for Harlem. They have tried to bend the rules multiple times within the last couple of years.

I hate to sound too much like one of our mods....but could you elaborate on this and cite some examples please?

[grizzh8r]

The rivals story had to have been written by someone who doesn't know anything about basketball tournaments. To say that Harlem was tired saturday morning because they played Friday NIGHT and had a short turnaround Saturday morning is ignorant. Anyone knows that if they lost/forfeited their first round game the play Friday AFTERNOON and, after winning, played a team that lost Friday NIGHT and that other team had the short turnaround.

The coach also said he gave the team the go-ahead to dunk since other kids were doing it! If other kids were jumping off a cliff would he tell his kids to do that too???? that was an omage to all of our parents.

the problem i have is refs aren't consistent with this rule. i understand why the coach would give the go ahead(not exactly jumping off a cliff)to dunk if kids in games before them were dunking. i don't know if anyone here remembers the last aa state tourney in bozeman in 99 but i do. in warm-ups of the chipper, billings west was putting on a show. i swear everyone of their players but maybe one or two could not only dunk....but could THROW DOWN! i'm talking windmills, alley-oops, reverse dunks, off the backboard, 360's. etc! it was actually pretty sweet. and no technicals were called. but funny enough, the night before, missoula hellgate started the game off with free throws because danny faaborg was "attempting" to dunk! anyone who remembers him will recall he didn't exactly have hops, and dunks were pretty much hit or miss! anyway, my point is you never know when the refs are going to call this, and that's what bothers me. now you have ONE kid who feels like he let his team, his coaches, and his entire team down, and i don't think it's fair.

Since when was life ever fair? Live and learn and get over it.

[bcats]

That would be the eligibility of AJ Longsoldier. The kid doesn't always make it to class. Between Harlem and Hays the last couple of years multiple coaches have protested his eligibility with the MHSA. There head coach is a good disciplinarian who doesn't get the communities support when he has tried to straighten this kid out.

[griztasteslikechicken]

the problem i have is refs aren't consistent with this rule. .[/quote]

You should know what you're talking about before spouting off!!! Do you see a lot of officials "ignoring" pre-game dunking? If so, I'd like to know when and where. First off, warm-up time is usually 20 minutes. Referees are required to be on the floor to watch warm-ups and conduct the captains meeting at the 15 minute mark. That leaves 5 minutes of "unsupervised" warm-up time. Home administration is responsible for both teams during this 5-minute time. If they allow dunking, and don't address it, that's not the referees problem. A pre-game dunk is a technical foul IF and only IF the officials witness it. They can't be told "hey, #32 was dunking a couple of minutes ago"... they have to witness it. Coaches are taking a risk as well...if a kid gets caught dunking it is a direct T against the kid (personal foul counting toward his 5 allowed for the game) and also an indirect T against the coach. This gives the coach a "seat belt" for the entire game and he/she can't stand to coach at all. To go even further - if an official witnesses 3 dunks during warmups by one team the coach is ejected (3 indirect T's and your gone). Pretty stupid to do it as the penalties aren't worth it. I think refs are consistant as their jurisdiction only starts when the arrive on the court. I've NEVER seen officials actually witness a pre-game dunk and NOT penalize a team for it. Like I said above, if you have I'd like to know when and where.