redo...which poster should be kicked off the "island&qu

[Cat Grad]

So, when did you flunk out

[eRat-a-Cat-er]

Cat Grad, sit back n'relax, you shouldn't over-tax that which has always failed you in the past!

[Eastcoastgriz]

BTW, grizlaw, MSU's Accounting program has ALWAYS outperformed dUMb's when it comes to producing CPA's; although dUMb has closed the gap, MSU clearly dominates in this area of study. MSU is one of the TOP performing Accounting schools IN THE NATION over the past 25 years.
you hear about Tech or Eastern

.

El Gato, you need to do a little research here. The CPA pass rate from U of M is very close to pass rate in bozo. (Some years U of M even has a higher pass rate.) All this shows is msu focuses more on passing the test than Missoula. I have an acquaintance that does a lot of hiring for the states largest CPA firm. He has stated while more bozo student pass the exam, he get better qualified accountants from U of M. I also know a senior executive with D. A. Davidson, who been involved with the hiring of many U of M and msu students, same story, U of M students come better prepared

[El_Gato]

Well, you're going to force me to get the real data, but that's ok because it's going to EMBARRASS the hell out of you. As I said, I know dUMb has closed the gap recently, but I also know that in the 80's, MSU finished FIRST in the nation a number of times and dUMb was struggling to be near the average (roughly HALF of MSU's pass rate).

Don't worry, I'll get the #'s and it will be good to watch you eat a little crow.

BTW, would you be so kind as to share the Alma Mater's of the two people you referenced? I'm betting they are either both griz alum or (even worse) bandwagon griz.

And I notice this is the ONLY area you contest, ecg. Interesting...

[Cat Grad]

Oh well...why argue?

[Eastcoastgriz]

Well, you're going to force me to get the real data, but that's ok because it's going to EMBARRASS the hell out of you. As I said, I know dUMb has closed the gap recently, but I also know that in the 80's, MSU finished FIRST in the nation a number of times and dUMb was struggling to be near the average (roughly HALF of MSU's pass rate).

Don't worry, I'll get the #'s and it will be good to watch you eat a little crow.

BTW, would you be so kind as to share the Alma Mater's of the two people you referenced? I'm betting they are either both griz alum or (even worse) bandwagon griz.

And I notice this is the ONLY area you contest, ecg. Interesting...

Get the numbers and while you’re at it really embarrass me, show us the top 25 accounting programs say for the past 5 or 10 years.

BTW, Both are UM grads, both are leaders in their industries and both are very profit driven.

Do you think it’s possible for a UM grad to be objective??

By the way, one is avid football fan the other is not.

If you know anything about DADCO, you would know the company supports both major universities equally.

[CelticCat]

I know within the last couple years, MSU students had the highest pass rate of the CPA exam of any college in the nation. Something like 87%. Not talking smack, just laying that out there.

[Bozgriz]

I'm just upset I wasn't listed as a choice in the poll...

[jagur1]

Bozgriz: Once you got listed as one of Gato's top 5 most wanted you've backed off a bit.

[SonomaCat]

BTW, grizlaw, MSU's Accounting program has ALWAYS outperformed dUMb's when it comes to producing CPA's; although dUMb has closed the gap, MSU clearly dominates in this area of study. MSU is one of the TOP performing Accounting schools IN THE NATION over the past 25 years.
you hear about Tech or Eastern

.

El Gato, you need to do a little research here. The CPA pass rate from U of M is very close to pass rate in bozo. (Some years U of M even has a higher pass rate.) All this shows is msu focuses more on passing the test than Missoula. I have an acquaintance that does a lot of hiring for the states largest CPA firm. He has stated while more bozo student pass the exam, he get better qualified accountants from U of M. I also know a senior executive with D. A. Davidson, who been involved with the hiring of many U of M and msu students, same story, U of M students come better prepared

MSU's pass rate has been at or near the tops in the nation for the last 20 years or so ... and yes, a lot of this has to do with an emphasis on passing the exam. When I was in school, that meant essentially taking an extra semester of classes to prepare for the exam -- essentially taking half of a masters degree. MSU also (at least used to) require more accounting classes to graduate with an accounting degree and made it much harder to get a double major in Accounting and Finance (whereas at UM you only had to take an additional handful of classes to graduate with a double major, which kind of defeated the point of getting a double major).

I'm not sure about the current state of things, but in the past most high caliber MSU accounting grads were going to out of state offices, so it wouldn't surprise me that the largest accounting firm in Montana had better luck with UM grads as UM historically did a very poor job bringing in the major firms to recruit its grads. I hope that has improved. I actually helped out a couple UM grads in getting internships via my MSU connections as all of the MSU students already had jobs lined up and there were some slots left to be filled.

The fact that CPA's now must have masters degrees has narrowed the gap on the CPA exam across the country (as MSU's advantage in number of classes taken is now narrower), but different states' rules on how many parts must be taken at once, etc., still give rise to some differences regionally (MT has harder requirements than most). Despite all of this, MSU is still kicking butt on the CPA pass rate, which is amazing. If you can pass the exam on the first sitting and have anything resembling a personality, you can get a good job right out of school (with a major firm). That's what MSU still offers. You have to work your butt off your last semester or two, but it's worth it.

So in summary, I'm sure one could find anecdotal examples of people saying that they find UM accounting students coming better prepared. The big difference might be that the comparable MSU grad (in terms of rank within their class) has already accepted a job making a lot more money and having a lot more upside already and didn't apply for that job. It's somewhat sad to say, but nearly all of the top accounting grads (and grads in many other areas) go for the much better jobs that exist outside of Montana, many with the idea of returning later in their careers after they have gotten the experience that they wouldn't be able to get within the Montana business community.

[Grizlaw]

I dropped out of this discussion once before because it started looking too much like a grade school playground argument, but I suppose I can come out of retirement for one post. Hopefully any responses will be rational.

Regarding accounting programs: I studied accounting at UM in the mid 90's, knowing full well that I planned on going to law school without ever sitting for the CPA exam, so I chose my school without paying much attention to historical CPA pass rates (focusing instead on my greater goal, which included preparing for law school and, thus, taking a greater number of liberal arts classes than a typical accounting student probably takes). Thus, I really don't know anything about the schools' respective pass rates during the years before I was there, and I stopped paying attention after I graduated from law school (2001).

What I do know is that, during the years I was actually paying attention to UM's pass rate, it was always right around 80%. From the class I graduated with, the first time pass rate was exactly 80%, and of those who did not pass, all but one "conditioned," and only one person failed outright. Every other year I was there, the rate was comparable. Was MSU's pass rate better for those years? Maybe; I honestly don't know -- it couldn't have been *much* better than 80% though, could it?

I guess my point is, I don't know where the two programs were 25 years ago (and frankly, I would question the wisdom of anyone who would choose one school over the other based on their CPA pass rates from 25 years ago), but in more recent years, the difference, if any, is negligible in that department.

[CelticCat]

As of 2003, MSU ranked 6th in the nation for CPA pass rate.

It is the 17th time in the past 21 years that MSU accounting students have ranked in the top 10 in the country among colleges and university's whose students who have taken the rigorous CPA exam, according to the National Association of State Boards of Accountancy. NASBA tracks and publishes various statistics on candidates success in passing the CPA exam.

On the various sections of the test, MSU accounting students ranked second in the nation in the financial accounting and reporting/business enterprise section of the test with a 93.8 percent pass rate, third in the auditing section, also with a 93.8 percent pass rate and fourth in the accounting and reporting section with an 87.5 percent pass rate.

MSU College of Business students finished with a 68.8 percent first-time pass rate on all four sections of the exam for candidates with advanced degrees. MSU was ranked behind the University of South Florida, the University of Wisconsin-Madison, the University of Iowa, Wake Forest University and the University of Wisconsin-Whitewater. Rounding out the top 10 after MSU were the University of Florida, the University of Houston and a two-way tie with Northern Illinois University and the University of Montana.

MSU accounting students have ranked No. 1 in the country in 1983, 1991, 1995, 1996 and 2002.

[SonomaCat]

To clarify my post, I would be remiss to fail to add that I have many close friends who graduated from UM in accounting, and all are very successful and very good people (and all passed the exam). You can find a lot of success coming out of either program. The only thing I can say about MSU's program is that they will force you to work harder as there is so much institutional pressure to perform well on the exam. Without that external pressure, I probably wouldn't have put in half of the work I did in preparing for the exam.

I sat for the exam in 1995 (one of the years we were number one in the country) and our pass rate was only 50%. I think the national average was about 15% at the time (skewed as many/most people didn't sit for all four sections at once as many states didn't have the same conditioning requirements as Montana). It appears that the pass rates for the Montana schools have risen considerably since then (probably due to the 150 credit rules), and presumably nationwide as well.

[wbtfg]

Two years ago when MSU was #1 with an 83% pass rate, the national average was 17%.

[Bozgriz]

Bozgriz: Once you got listed as one of Gato's top 5 most wanted you've backed off a bit.

True, although all this "our school is smarter than your school" stuff is possibly the dumbest thread I have read since the high schoolers hijacked a couple of egriz threads last month...

Frankly, as a Griz alum (BA 1990), I am very proud of my university and its programs! I tell my msu graduate employees that on an almost daily basis...

[G.W.Bush]

BAC

[Bozgriz]

Frankly, as a Griz alum (BA 1990), I am very proud of my university and its programs! I tell my msu graduate employees that on an almost daily basis...

NOW THAT SOUNDS LIKE A HIGH SCHOOL STUDENT! THAT IS THE LAMEST THING YOU COULD SAY! PROUD MEMBER OF THE 2006 GRADUATING CLASS FROM BILLINGS WEST- Bozgriz!

As Steve Martin once said to a heckler in the crowd: "I remember my first beer..."

[Grizlaw]

Frankly, as a Griz alum (BA 1990), I am very proud of my university and its programs! I tell my msu graduate employees that on an almost daily basis...

NOW THAT SOUNDS LIKE A HIGH SCHOOL STUDENT! THAT IS THE LAMEST THING YOU COULD SAY! PROUD MEMBER OF THE 2006 GRADUATING CLASS FROM BILLINGS WEST- Bozgriz!

At least Bozgriz has better things to do with his time than create two different accounts on a message board, one as the President and one as the guy who ran against him, and have conversations with himself...

[jagur1]

This is fun poking fun at Bozgriz. (It's a lot like taking a stick and poking a sleeping bear)

[Bozgriz]

All this down time is killing me...80 days until the season starts????