NBA Playoffs

Grizlaw · Post by **Grizlaw** » Mon May 23, 2005 1:57 pm

Hell's Bells wrote:speaking pf perspective and people taking advantage of their body in sports i wonder if shaq is doin so....wouldnt blame him to be honest with ya

That's rich. Are you really trying to equate the fact that Shaq uses his height and strength to his advantage with Stockton's weasley penchant for setting moving screens and drawing cheap fouls? If you really need someone to point out the difference for you, I'll give you a hint: one of the two is playing within the rules of the sport, and the other is not.

El_Gato · Post by **El_Gato** » Mon May 23, 2005 2:40 pm

Grizlaw wrote:...Are you really trying to equate the fact that Shaq uses his height and strength to his advantage...

I'm pretty sure that the rules state that if you create contact in an effort to gain space on the floor or to knock your opponent off-balance, it's supposed to be a foul. That being said, there should be a foul called on Shaq or the person guarding him EVERY TIME he touches the ball.

Shaq is probably the most dominant player of all time simply because he is a giant and the league has decided that the $$ created are more important than pure basketball. Shaq, more than any player in the history of the NBA, uses ILLEGAL contact to create most, if not all, of his shots.

I still like watching him play when he's healthy but it's amazing to me how one game the refs will let him get away with murder while the next crew will whistle him early in order to "set the tone" for a given game. I'm sure Big Aristotle gets a little tired of having to adjust his game every night to a different set of rules.

And lawman, please don't blaspheme John Stockton. I've never been a Jazz fan, but you have to respect the career a scrawny white kid from Spokane was able to sustain...

Grizlaw · Post by **Grizlaw** » Mon May 23, 2005 3:43 pm

Gato --

Shaq is a difficult player for referrees to deal with. You said it best when you said that arguably, every time he touches the ball, a foul should be called either on him or on the person who is guarding him. When Shaq is guarded by an aggressive defender, it's near impossible for the refs to judge who initiated the contact, but for every replay you show me of Shaq initiating contact to create space, I guarantee I can find you another replay of him getting completely mugged in the paint and not drawing a foul. In short, I'd say this debate is a draw, at best.

(As a sidenote, everything you said about Shaq backing people down could apply equally to every big man in the league who backs his opponents down to create shots, but I'll acknowledge that Shaq is much more dominant in that regard than anyone else in the league, and thus benefits the most from the refs' laissez faire attitude.)

As for Stockton -- I do respect the man for the career that he had. I spent my early childhood in Spokane before my family moved to Butte, and I'm happy to see a Gonzaga kid do well. That doesn't change the fact that he was, in some ways, a dirty player, though. Smart, yes -- he knew what he could get away with and took advantage -- but still dirty.

El_Gato · Post by **El_Gato** » Mon May 23, 2005 4:18 pm

Side note on Stockton:

Krysko once told me that Stockton & Malone were the biggest trash talkers he ever played against. Doesn't quite fit the image, does it?

Also, Krysko told me Barkley was the toughest guy to defend in the league, although I'm pretty sure any of us could keep up with the Round Mound of Rebound these days; he must be pushing 350!

Cat Pride · Post by **Cat Pride** » Mon May 23, 2005 4:26 pm

When did the NBA playoffs start? I thought the league disbanded when Magic, Larry and Jordan all retired.

mquast53000 · Post by **mquast53000** » Mon May 23, 2005 4:35 pm

Cat Pride wrote:When did the NBA playoffs start? I thought the league disbanded when Magic, Larry and Jordan all retired.

From the sound of it they are trying to join the NHL and have a lock out… I wouldn’t lose that much sleep over it…

BleedsBlue&Gold · Post by **BleedsBlue&Gold** » Fri Jun 10, 2005 8:35 am

Spurs looked good. Ginobili is a stud.

Durham recruiting in Argentina??

iaafan · Post by **iaafan** » Fri Jun 10, 2005 1:15 pm

It seems that running down the NBA is the cool thing to do these days. I think the lack of appeal is a result of the TV coverage. There's too much. I feel the same way for all the other sports. There's no novelty to watching a game. The only games I watch are when my favorite team is playing and when the playoffs get going. I haven't watched a Super Bowl since Green Bay lost to Denver. I always watch the World Series just for old times sake and the Rose Bowl is a must for tradition, too. Other than that it has gotten pretty blah.

As for basketball, there is a lot of good ball being played, but it isn't the same as the Magic/Bird/Dr. J era when it was good ball and we weren't saturated. I think the league has done something to create parity since then, because it seemed like those three teams just waltzed through the reg. season from 1980 to 1987. Then Detroit came along and took Philly's place. After that it seems like the teams got more balanced. The West had and still has about 4-5 real good teams and the East (post-Jordan) has about 3-4. You used to get locked in on the Celts/Sixers/Lakes and seemed to know every player on all three teams, whereas now you only know a couple guys on about 10 diff. teams.

BleedsBlue&Gold · Post by **BleedsBlue&Gold** » Tue Jun 14, 2005 8:32 am

Will the Spurs sweep? I doubt it. I haven't heard Rasheed garuntee any games though. I bet the Pistons get a game or two back in Detroit.

El_Gato · Post by **El_Gato** » Tue Jun 14, 2005 1:03 pm

If SA wins game 3 tonight, they will sweep; I know that's not really going out on a limb, but this Pistons team has really unravelled in just 2 games.

Mike Tirico blasted Bill Walton at halftime of Game 2 when the Big Pothead stated that the Pistons had lost respect for Larry Brown & all the hoopla surrounding his decision for next season; I hate to admit it, but I think Walton is right. Watching a couple of "huddle shots" in the second half of Game 2, it really appeared that the players weren't paying ANY attention to LB during timeouts.

Another observation: The first 2 games of the Finals is clear evidence of how PATHETIC the Eastern Conference has become the past 4 or 5 seasons. The fact that Detroit won last year was a fluke, IMO, and was mainly due to a complete MELTDOWN by the Lakers. I'm amazed at how easily the Spurs CRUSHED Detroit in the first 2 games; I think SA went into Game 1 a bit wary because of Detroit's victory a year ago, but now they know they are a MUCH better team and I won't be at all surprised if they complete the sweep.

Of course, after all of Detroit's whining, I won't be surprised if Duncan, Obi Wan Ginobli, and Parker each have 2 fouls in the first 4 minutes tonight, either!

Speaking of Ginobli, does anyone doubt that this guy is already one of the top 10 players in the league today (and for the next 5 or 6 years)? Imagine Manu on a team like Phoenix or Seattle; he'd probably win a few scoring titles & MVP's along the way...

BleedsBlue&Gold · Post by **BleedsBlue&Gold** » Mon Jun 20, 2005 4:57 pm

Horry saved the day, again!

Bleedinbluengold · Post by **Bleedinbluengold** » Mon Jun 20, 2005 9:36 pm

I'm thrilled for Bigshot Rob. He's one of my favorite all-time.

I just can't even believe that "Detroit Basketball" left him wide-friggin'-OPEN! GAWD, make anyone shoot but him in that situation. I'd almost give Duncan a layup!

Man, Duncan woulda been better off just throwing the ball overhand at the hoop on those freethrows. Made Shaq look like Hornacek.

ESPN radio this afternoon was cool. The host kept playing radio play-by-play Horry's big shots in years gone by...great moments.

El_Gato · Post by **El_Gato** » Tue Jun 21, 2005 10:39 am

Why wasn't anyone on the Spurs coaching staff SCREAMING at Duncan to quit "freezing" so long before shooting his free throws?

His normal routine appears to be 2 dribbles, pause, 2 dribbles, set, shoot. Sunday night I swear he was holding his set for a good 7 or 8 seconds before shooting in the 4th quarter; you just KNEW he was going to clank those.

You have to love Big Shot Bobby; when the Spurs repeat next season, he'll have more rings than Bird, Magic, Jabbar, and Jordan.

Interesting question: Who would you rather have taken when he first came into the league: Pippen or Horry?

For me, it'd be Horry anyday. No ego, HUGE when the stakes are highest, and always seems to do the "little things" as well as kill you with his clutch shooting. Pippen will always go down as one of the most overrated players in NBA history, IMO.

mslacat · Post by **mslacat** » Tue Jun 21, 2005 11:06 am

I must admit I always liked Scotty Pippen as a player, but I will admit he was way over rated. He was on the list of the top 50 ever NBA players, but when ever you took MJ away from him he was a good player but no where near top 50 ever. At Portland and with the Bulls while MJ was playing baseball he was a servicable star player, it was only when MJ was playing with him that he really shined. Clearly the case where MJ made him better!

Cat Pride · Post by **Cat Pride** » Tue Jun 21, 2005 11:28 am

Pro basketball... its putrid! It is a far stretch to even put todays NBA in the same category as the NBA of the 80's and early 90's. Gregg Doyle of CBS Sportsline summarizes today's game perfectly.

http://cbs.sportsline.com/collegebasket ... ry/8581140

Bleedinbluengold · Post by **Bleedinbluengold** » Tue Jun 21, 2005 3:22 pm

El_Gato wrote:Why wasn't anyone on the Spurs coaching staff SCREAMING at Duncan to quit "freezing" so long before shooting his free throws?

His normal routine appears to be 2 dribbles, pause, 2 dribbles, set, shoot. Sunday night I swear he was holding his set for a good 7 or 8 seconds before shooting in the 4th quarter; you just KNEW he was going to clank those.

You have to love Big Shot Bobby; when the Spurs repeat next season, he'll have more rings than Bird, Magic, Jabbar, and Jordan.

Interesting question: Who would you rather have taken when he first came into the league: Pippen or Horry?

For me, it'd be Horry anyday. No ego, HUGE when the stakes are highest, and always seems to do the "little things" as well as kill you with his clutch shooting. Pippen will always go down as one of the most overrated players in NBA history, IMO.

The better question maybe is: Who would you take to play along side Jordan? Pippen was the better fit, because he was all-defense, and could guard the 2 or the 3. Horry can guard the 3, and on a great day, the 4. He can't play a 1 or a 2. I don't think Pippen is overrated, I think he's fairly rated. There is just no doubt that he was a better player because of Jordan, but heck, who wouldn't you be able to say that about? Pippen is a hall-of-famer, and Horry has more work to do to get in...BUT, I would give a clutch shot to Horry anyday over everyone but (maybe) Jordan, Kerr, and Reggie.

Hell's Bells · Post by **Hell's Bells** » Tue Jun 21, 2005 4:15 pm

Bleedinbluengold wrote:
El_Gato wrote:Why wasn't anyone on the Spurs coaching staff SCREAMING at Duncan to quit "freezing" so long before shooting his free throws?

His normal routine appears to be 2 dribbles, pause, 2 dribbles, set, shoot. Sunday night I swear he was holding his set for a good 7 or 8 seconds before shooting in the 4th quarter; you just KNEW he was going to clank those.

You have to love Big Shot Bobby; when the Spurs repeat next season, he'll have more rings than Bird, Magic, Jabbar, and Jordan.

Interesting question: Who would you rather have taken when he first came into the league: Pippen or Horry?

For me, it'd be Horry anyday. No ego, HUGE when the stakes are highest, and always seems to do the "little things" as well as kill you with his clutch shooting. Pippen will always go down as one of the most overrated players in NBA history, IMO.
The better question maybe is: Who would you take to play along side Jordan? Pippen was the better fit, because he was all-defense, and could guard the 2 or the 3. Horry can guard the 3, and on a great day, the 4. He can't play a 1 or a 2. I don't think Pippen is overrated, I think he's fairly rated. There is just no doubt that he was a better player because of Jordan, but heck, who wouldn't you be able to say that about? Pippen is a hall-of-famer, and Horry has more work to do to get in...BUT, I would give a clutch shot to Horry anyday over everyone but (maybe) Jordan, Kerr, and Reggie.

you might want to add hornasek and stockton to the clutch shot list...

Bleedinbluengold · Post by **Bleedinbluengold** » Tue Jun 21, 2005 5:46 pm

I thought about both - but I'd take any of the other guys before either Stockton or Hornacek. Not saying that the latter two weren't good in the clutch.

I thought about Magic and Kareem, too.