Frank Brown Update

GOKATS · Post by **GOKATS** » Sat Jul 09, 2005 7:18 pm

Someone asked not too long ago about Frank Brown. This article was in the Chronical today.

http://bozemandailychronicle.com/articl ... /brown.txt

PapaG · Post by **PapaG** » Sun Jul 10, 2005 8:37 pm

I hope the young girl who had this done to her is doing OK. This sort of thing could mess her up for a long time.

And I hope Frank likes Deer Lodge.

gtapp · Post by **gtapp** » Sun Jul 10, 2005 9:14 pm

PapaG wrote:I hope the young girl who had this done to her is doing OK. This sort of thing could mess her up for a long time.

And I hope Frank likes Deer Lodge.

It sounds like she was pretty messed up before she met Frank.

PapaG · Post by **PapaG** » Sun Jul 10, 2005 9:18 pm

gtapp wrote:
PapaG wrote:I hope the young girl who had this done to her is doing OK. This sort of thing could mess her up for a long time.

And I hope Frank likes Deer Lodge.
It sounds like she was pretty messed up before she met Frank.

Are you blaming the victim?

Bottom line is this. Frank knew she was under age. He may have also had adult relations with her while she was unconscious. This is a permanent black mark on our men's basketball program. I am ashamed.

4everacatfan · Post by **4everacatfan** » Mon Jul 11, 2005 7:57 am

Again this is an example of an athlete with a major character flaw. Rules don't apply to him, I am tired of seeing athletes at all levels think that their athletic talent allows them a pass on the rules. He should go to prison but I don't hold out a lot of hope for that. They have already let him move back to Las Vegas. Good Luck getting him back here.

I think the University did the right thing in suspending him, there is not much else they can do. My hope is that in the future the coaching staff does a better job on checking the character of the athletes they recruit to MSU and explains to them the do's and don'ts of living in Montana. I'm not blaming the coaching staff, Frank Brown is the guilty party.

I just hope this young girl can eventually recover.

Post by **SonomaCat** » Mon Jul 11, 2005 8:41 am

Not to excuse Frank's behavior, but I'm not sure this is exclusively an athlete thing. If every guy in Montana that had sex with a 15 year old when they were 18 or older (statutory rape) was in Deer Lodge, they would need to add a new wing.

The fact that she was blacked out (memory gone due to alcohol) one of the times certainly does make it that much worse, but still, not unique to athletes or people not from Montana (if she was actually unconcious when it happened, then that's just totally messed up on a whole other level, but I guess there's no way of knowing whether that was the case).

I do suspect this would be much less of a story if Frank wasn't a basketball player. I'm not saying that the charges wouldn't have been filed (I don't know enough about that to opine), but I do suspect that the impact on him is more severe as a result of his higher-profile status. That being said, it is definitely is a black mark on the program and shameful to all of us.

It's just a bad situation all around, and hopefully one all of them can eventually recover from.

Cat Pride · Post by **Cat Pride** » Mon Jul 11, 2005 9:12 am

4everacatfan wrote:Again this is an example of an athlete with a major character flaw. Rules don't apply to him, I am tired of seeing athletes at all levels think that their athletic talent allows them a pass on the rules. He should go to prison but I don't hold out a lot of hope for that. They have already let him move back to Las Vegas. Good Luck getting him back here.

I think the University did the right thing in suspending him, there is not much else they can do. My hope is that in the future the coaching staff does a better job on checking the character of the athletes they recruit to MSU and explains to them the do's and don'ts of living in Montana. I'm not blaming the coaching staff, Frank Brown is the guilty party.

I just hope this young girl can eventually recover.

I dont think this is an "athlete getting off" thing. In fact, being as he WAS an athlete at MSU, he is probably getting more press and attention than your average accused rapist.

Not to defend Frank, but he (parents) did post his bail, and that is why he is back in Vegas living with his parents.

mslacat · Post by **mslacat** » Mon Jul 11, 2005 9:13 am

From my wife and other friends who have delt with such things. Apretty standard sentence could be three years with about 9 -18 months of actual "Deer Lodge time" Now what can effect the actual sentence is the age difference between the two. Like it or not, as the age difference gets larger the the worse the jury/judge could look at the offender. The girls and family testomony could also effect the sentence. If they get on the stand and fry Frank the sentence could double or worse. Normally if the young lady give positive testomony (ie we were in love bla bla bla ) it does not help that much (the perp should have known better), but Frank is right on the border line -young enough- that that might carry some weight, and help his case. It should be interesting to see what happens, but I would bet a plea agreement has been reached and both Frank and the girls parents have signed off on it.

gtapp · Post by **gtapp** » Mon Jul 11, 2005 9:45 am

PapaG wrote:
gtapp wrote:
PapaG wrote:I hope the young girl who had this done to her is doing OK. This sort of thing could mess her up for a long time.

And I hope Frank likes Deer Lodge.
It sounds like she was pretty messed up before she met Frank.
Are you blaming the victim?

Bottom line is this. Frank knew she was under age. He may have also had adult relations with her while she was unconscious. This is a permanent black mark on our men's basketball program. I am ashamed.

Victim??????????? What victim????????? Keep in mind she back a second time after it happened the first time. Reminds me of the Kobe Bryant case. "Thank you sir may I have another"!!!!!!!!!!!!!

mslacat · Post by **mslacat** » Mon Jul 11, 2005 10:01 am

gtapp wrote:
PapaG wrote:
gtapp wrote:
PapaG wrote:I hope the young girl who had this done to her is doing OK. This sort of thing could mess her up for a long time.

And I hope Frank likes Deer Lodge.
It sounds like she was pretty messed up before she met Frank.
Are you blaming the victim?

Bottom line is this. Frank knew she was under age. He may have also had adult relations with her while she was unconscious. This is a permanent black mark on our men's basketball program. I am ashamed.
Victim??????????? What victim????????? Keep in mind she back a second time after it happened the first time. Reminds me of the Kobe Bryant case. "Thank you sir may I have another"!!!!!!!!!!!!!

She was 15, and non-sexually active before this happened! Frank is/was an adult, 5 or so years older. That makes her a victim no matter how many time they had relations. Consent or not, is not the issue.

Post by **SonomaCat** » Mon Jul 11, 2005 10:12 am

The worst part about these kinds of things is that none of us really have any idea what the real truth is of this situation, but we probably each make certain assumptions, and those assumptions are bound to conflict with other people's assumptions. The two extremes of the layman opinion probably run along these lines:

Extreme cynic: This was a sexual relationship between a 15 year old girl and a 18 or 19 year old guy, similar to the age range that many of us probably saw quite often in high school (and some even ended up getting married). A person can make the argument that a 15 year old is more than capable of making decisions of this kind (and in the not-so-distant past, they probably would have been married and having kids within a year or two). She was apparently willing to have sex with him as she did come back several times, and there was nothing to suggest that Frank was any more the aggressor than she was. This case is just about the parents wanting thier pound of flesh from somebody ... and one could even throw in suggestions of racism (would this have been an issue if Frank was a white kid from small town Montana?). She was drunk, but then, it's not all that rare for teenagers to be drunk when having sex in Montana.

Person stongly senstive to the victim: This was a case of an older, more mature man taking advantage of an emotionally inequipped young girl and raping her in numerous occasions. He plied her with alcohol and had sex with her without either actual consent and certainly without her legal consent (as she doesn't have the ability to grant that until her 16th b-day). The man is a dangerous predator who may have had sex with her even after she was unconcious, and if left to roam the streets, will harm others and should be locked up for a long time.

I have no idea where the truth lies within those extremes or the spectrum between, so I am just saddened by the whole thing. It's really hard for me to now get strongly behind either party in a rape case as I have just read about too many of them, and I have come to realize that if I do take a strong stand either way, there's a good chance that I'm simply wrong as the real facts are seldom known by anyone other than the people involved (and not even them if they were blacked out at the time).

Statutory rape is a crime, however, and he is pleading guilty to those charges, so apparently we can rely on the assumption that the sex itself did happen.

Bozgriz · Post by **Bozgriz** » Mon Jul 11, 2005 10:25 am

Nothing to talk about or dispute here. Frank Brown is about to become a convicted rapist...and its a bad situation for everyone involved, victim, community, everyone...what's to discuss here?

mslacat · Post by **mslacat** » Mon Jul 11, 2005 10:36 am

BAC
The interesting thing to read in the post here is the "What should Happen" vrs "What will Happen". My wife works with rape victims on a regualr basis. She has a very pesimistic out look as to what a perp will be sentenced too. By the same token we have two friends who work perps. Name a scum bag who has been arrested in westrn Montana over the last 10 or more years, and either one or both have either done a evaluation for the state or therepy section in prison. Name a crime, which jurisdiction, a little bit of facts and they can tell you pretty close what the sentence will be. It is pretty amazing! Forget the trial, presentencing review, in a lot of cases It just doesn't matter.

I have no idea what all the different facts are in the Frank Brown case. I really don't give much thought to what he should get. It basically comes down to What he will get.

If you can do the time don't do the crime -don't do it- ya ya ya !

mquast53000 · Post by **mquast53000** » Mon Jul 11, 2005 10:58 am

I think that Brown was an idiot. How many of your guys hung out with high school students when you were in college (ones you didn’t know from your own high school days)? Come on, this guy royally f*** up and now must pay the price. An Unconscious 15 year old female victim… He is old enough to know better.

CARDIAC_CATS · Post by **CARDIAC_CATS** » Mon Jul 11, 2005 11:05 am

mquast53000 wrote:I think that Brown was an idiot. How many of your guys hung out with high school students when you were in college (ones you didn’t know from your own high school days)? Come on, this guy royally f*** up and now must pay the price. An Unconscious 15 year old female victim… He is old enough to know better.

Yep, TOTAL IDIOT. I would just rather we let him ride off into the sunset to prison. I don't consider him a Bobcat anymore and not part of the Bobcat family in any way. Just another black eye on the MSU program in the last 2 years. The only way you can really control something like that is to try and recruit good kids, but bad one's are going to slip through the cracks. I don't even think he deserves having his name even mentioned on the Bobcat ATHLETICS message board.

Hell's Bells · Post by **Hell's Bells** » Mon Jul 11, 2005 1:24 pm

The following morning, when the victim awoke on the neighbor's floor, she allegedly didn't know how she got there and she didn't know she had sex.

?????

AZCAT21 · Post by **AZCAT21** » Tue Jul 12, 2005 2:04 pm

I DON'T THINK THAT FRANK BROWN IS A BAD KID AT ALL. I THINK HE MADE A REALLY REALLY POOR DECIDION BUT EVERYTIME I HAVE EVER TALKED TO HIM HE WAS A VERY NICE PERSON. FROM WHAT I HAVE HEARD THE GIRL HAD HAD SEX BEFORE SHE HOOKED UP WITH FRANK SO IT COULD HAVE BEEN JUST A MATTER OF TIME BEFORE THIS SORT OF THING HAPPENED.

ANOTHER QUESTION THAT I HAVE IS WHY WERE HER PARENTS NOT KNOWING THAT SHE WAS SNEAKING OUT AND HANGING OUT WITH MSU BASKETBALL PLAYERS. SEEMS LIKE THEIR COULD BE SOME PARENTAL ISSUES TOO.....JUST A THOUGHT

Ponycat · Post by **Ponycat** » Tue Jul 12, 2005 2:16 pm

Nice guy or not he broke the law, he even admitted that he new her age...NO EXCUSE.

Jimmy Buffet said it best 15 will get you 20.

mquast53000 · Post by **mquast53000** » Tue Jul 12, 2005 2:51 pm

Nothing like blaming the victim…

CelticCat · Post by **CelticCat** » Tue Jul 12, 2005 3:43 pm

mquast53000 wrote:I think that Brown was an idiot. How many of your guys hung out with high school students when you were in college (ones you didn’t know from your own high school days)? Come on, this guy royally f*** up and now must pay the price. An Unconscious 15 year old female victim… He is old enough to know better.

*raises hand to hanging out with hot seniors girls in high school while I was a freshman-sophmore in college*