Kickers & Cal Poly

wbtfg · Post by **wbtfg** » Tue Jul 19, 2005 7:45 am

MSU football: Coach Kramer working to improve Bobcats kicking core

By TIM DUMAS, Chronicle Sports Writer

Mike Kramer likes to be in control.

Some things, however, are out of his hands.

Like the just-released preseason predictions that have Montana State picked no higher than third in the Big Sky Conference.

Or consistently catching passes. Or that annual thorn in the side, place kicking.

Kramer knows what his offense, defense and most of the special teams have to offer. But when it comes to kicking field goals, one of MSU's starting safeties - even the quarterback - may become last-ditch, throw-up-your-hands options.

"That's the open envelope," Kramer said of the kicking chores.

Freshman Tyler Bolton is the only returning Bobcat with experience at the Division I-AA level. But that doesn't mean he's a lock.

Bolton was inconsistent during the spring, when he was the lone kicker on the roster.

"At no point did Tyler Bolton take the job. It was his (to win)," Kramer said. "So we go into (fall) camp with a level playing field. Whoever kicks best in camp ..."

The Bobcats are coming off a season in which - despite E.J. Cochrane's late-game heroics - they made less than 50 percent (12 for 25) of their field goal tries.

And MSU fared even poorer from the right hash mark, connecting on one of seven attempts.

That's why during last season's pivotal Eastern Washington game, Kramer elected to go for it on fourth-down and eight from the EWU 27-yard line. At the time, the Bobcats were leading 37-30 with 13:35 left in regulation.

The 'Cats did not make it. Five minutes later, the game was tied as the Eagles went on to win in overtime.

"I had no confidence in our kicker," Kramer said.

The Bobcats will have two other kickers in camp, which begins Aug. 10. One has junior college experience while the other just finished high school.

Jeffrey Hastings kicked at Long Beach City College last year, making 12 of 14 field goal attempts, including seven of nine from 30 yards or more. His long was a conference-high 48 yarder.

The last time MSU made a field goal anywhere near that distance was Carson Souter, who hit one from 50 against Sacramento State in 1998.

Also contending is Eric Fisher, who graduated from Billings West in June and is the only Bobcat freshman that has a chance at any playing time this season. All others are expected to redshirt.

Fisher was 16 of 21 for his career on field goals with a long of 47 yards. He actually played two sports during the fall for the Golden Bears, earning all-state honors as a kicker and a punter and was all-conference in soccer.

There are other options if that trio doesn't make the grade, although it would take drastic measures for Kramer to utilize them: Safety-punt returner Ryan Force or quarterback-punter Travis Lulay.

"If we go a couple of weeks and it's just misery, I'm going to let Force do it and call it good," Kramer said. "Force or Travis."

Those opening weeks will once again dictate how things shake out for MSU's Big Sky opener against Idaho State on Oct. 1.

The season starts at Division I Oklahoma State on Labor Day weekend before Stephen F. Austin and new head coach Robert McFarland visit.

Kramer says he won't base the whole season on how the Bobcats play against OSU, their toughest opponent since meeting Washington State in 2002.

"You make the most progress after your first game," he said, "and playing Oklahoma State, there's no team we'll play on our schedule that's better or faster. There will be guys who will stagger and make mistakes, who will have great years.

"I will read nothing out of the Oklahoma State game."

After SFA, Montana State travels to California to meet Cal-Poly San Luis Obispo, which has beaten the 'Cats six consecutive times.

Cal Poly has given Kramer fits since he took over in 2000 as Rich Ellerson's Mustangs have outscored MSU 120-55 in four games.

"I get out-coached every single year by that guy," Kramer said. "He has beaten me any way you can."

Kramer doesn't mind getting beaten physically, but between the ears is another matter.

"We will only play the smart kids in that game," Kramer said, chuckling. "We might only play nine guys on offense and leave two spots empty.

"We're really pointing toward that game."

http://bozemandailychronicle.com/articl ... otball.txt

PDXKat · Post by **PDXKat** » Tue Jul 19, 2005 8:38 am

wbtfg wrote: Also contending is Eric Fisher, who graduated from Billings West in June and is the only Bobcat freshman that has a chance at any playing time this season. All others are expected to redshirt.

I guess that answers speculation about Kramers expectations for the incoming freshman. And thats a good thing really. It shows that the program has matured to the point where we have developed depth and we get to let the younger guys develop. This year we'll have guys sitting who would have started for us a couple years ago.

WYCAT · Post by **WYCAT** » Tue Jul 19, 2005 8:48 am

Pretty scary when we are already (45 days to kickoff) talking about emergency kickers like our safety or QB. Doesn't exude a ton of confidence to me. However, less than 50% last season does about the same thing - including 1 for 7 from the right hash mark.

What about kickoffs? Doroski was great last season, do we have anyone with that strong of a leg this year?

VictorG · Post by **VictorG** » Tue Jul 19, 2005 9:16 am

Last year the Griz got Carpenter and he was pretty good for a true freshman. At the same time Kramer signed another Montana kid and said that he got the kicker he really wanted. Who was that and what's up?

wbtfg · Post by **wbtfg** » Tue Jul 19, 2005 9:55 am

VictorG wrote:Last year the Griz got Carpenter and he was pretty good for a true freshman. At the same time Kramer signed another Montana kid and said that he got the kicker he really wanted. Who was that and what's up?

Tyler Bolton broke his toe last year, thus was forced to sit the season out. He was the only kicker in camp this spring, and performed so-so. Not good enough to win the job outright.

goat · Post by **goat** » Tue Jul 19, 2005 10:18 am

tyler bolton will be just fine. he had a bad foot last year. he is working out all summer and this is the best he has felt since high school.

i would have more concern with who is holding and more so snapping. this is what lead to some of the problems in the spring!!

BobcatLionFan · Post by **BobcatLionFan** » Tue Jul 19, 2005 10:29 am

Message he is giving is kick and win the job. Don't blame holding, snaps, etc. They take that into consideration and will replace those guys (as they did last year with the holder (Coppack replaced) after the 2nd game I think) if there is a problem. Kramer is not shy about calling an apple an apple.

They brought the two new guys in because of the need for a backup (two kickers were hurt at the same time last year) and Bolton not having won the job (which he could have and still could). Simple thing is just make all the under 30s and half of those over and you have the job.

On freshman playing, when your depth chart across the board has solid backups already, things are good.

Post by **kmax** » Tue Jul 19, 2005 10:33 am

goat wrote:tyler bolton will be just fine. he had a bad foot last year. he is working out all summer and this is the best he has felt since high school.

i would have more concern with who is holding and more so snapping. this is what lead to some of the problems in the spring!!

Very good point here. While we definately had our share of kicking woes the last couple of years, one thing we could always count on was a good snap and hold. I seem to remember somebody saying that whoever was taking over snap/hold duties were working togethor regularly this summer to try and maintain that same level of consistency we are used to. I hope that is the case as it has been nice not really having to worry about a bad snap/fumbled hold.

mquast53000 · Post by **mquast53000** » Tue Jul 19, 2005 10:41 am

Finding a snapper and holder is a lot easier then finding someone to kick the ball. Snapping and holding will not be a problem, but kicking very well could.

BobcatLionFan · Post by **BobcatLionFan** » Tue Jul 19, 2005 10:44 am

Agree, I remember a couple of years ago Dusty was left behind on the road trip because of getting into a fight. Eddie did the snaps for punting and field goals in the Weber game. He practiced before the game (in pre-game) and actually did fine. Obviously not as good as Dusty and they did not do some field goal attempts because they were worried about the chance of a bad snap. But Eddie came through.

Kicking is a different thing. Lulay and Force will probably not be able to kick beyond 30 (if that) so we need one of the three to come through consistently.

Possibly two kickers, one that is 100% good 35 and in. One that has a better leg for the longer attempts (but not as consistent in close).

raincat · Post by **raincat** » Tue Jul 19, 2005 11:02 am

Coach, if you're reading this..it's time to bring back the drop-kick. The leather helmet boys were routienly banging them in from 40 yards out. Plus, you don't need to mess around with a holder. Lulay already has the rugby rollout down. He is easily talented enough to master the "dropper".

theblackgecko · Post by **theblackgecko** » Tue Jul 19, 2005 1:13 pm

I agree Lulay did an overall great job of punting the ball last year. It's not going to surpirse anyone anymore, but is still effective and usually impossible to get a good return on.

catatac · Post by **catatac** » Tue Jul 19, 2005 1:20 pm

Why are we even discussing this? Lulay kicking field goals? Has he even done it? I can see punting, and I reluctantly agree with him doing that but not kicking. Can you say “Roughing the kicker…” a lot? I also noticed they referred to Force as a punt returner – that was a stop-gap, and he’s not going to be doing it this season is he?

GOKATS · Post by **GOKATS** » Tue Jul 19, 2005 1:45 pm

Lulay is fine punting the ball, he was 9th in 1-AA last year averaging over 42 yds./kick. It also offers a lot of options in 4th down situations. The Cats definitely need to find a consistent FG kicker though.

WYCAT · Post by **WYCAT** » Tue Jul 19, 2005 1:51 pm

catatac wrote:Why are we even discussing this? Lulay kicking field goals? Has he even done it? I can see punting, and I reluctantly agree with him doing that but not kicking. Can you say “Roughing the kicker…” a lot? I also noticed they referred to Force as a punt returner – that was a stop-gap, and he’s not going to be doing it this season is he?

I agree that even mentioning Lulay (or Force for that matter) as a FG kicker is a joke. As far as Force returning punts I thought that was about our 5th choice last year and was done only out of total necessity. Although Ryan did a pretty good job I expected to see Eddie Smith this season as that is one of the things Kramer touted when Eddie signed - someone that could carry on for Corey Smith.

grizhatr · Post by **grizhatr** » Tue Jul 19, 2005 3:01 pm

What about Tramaine Murray? He is supposed to be a special teams contributor as well. Why do we have such a crappy time finding decent kickers?

BobcatLionFan · Post by **BobcatLionFan** » Tue Jul 19, 2005 4:10 pm

During the spring, Murray was the guy returning punts the entire time. Same with one of the two back for kick off return practice. Would not be surprised with Bass back there on kickoffs, he has that open field style. Roosevelt was the guy last year before he got hurt. Probably still a good choice.

On Force, they just didn't want the fumbles last year and put him in because he is reliable. Not the pure speed, but didn't make mistakes.

I think Kramer was tongue and cheek with Lulay and Force, in that they seem to do everything (punt, hold for the kicker, punt returns, etc.) Both played soccer so it's not impossible, but we are in trouble if it came to that. One of the three will be the solution (whether good or oh-my-god type solution).

As to hard to find a kicker, it's windy in Bozeman, more so than most places. It seems to screw with the minds of the kickers, in it whips in one ear and out the other without being stopped by anything.

mquast53000 · Post by **mquast53000** » Tue Jul 19, 2005 4:53 pm

catatac wrote: I can see punting, and I reluctantly agree with him doing that but not kicking. Can you say “Roughing the kicker…” a lot?

Roughing the kicker is more likely on punts then FG. I wouldn’t worry at all having Lulay kick FG (getting hit late), but I doubt that he actually can kick a FG…

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