Bobcat\Grizzly Analogy

catatac · Post by **catatac** » Thu Jul 15, 2004 4:54 pm

Just thought of this today. The Grizzlies are the Tiger Woods of golf. In a slump? Not really, but it depends on your expectations. Not number one anymore but around 4 or 5. Doesn't enter games\tourneys anymore expecting to blow opponents away. Has taken a back-seat to Phil Mickelson lately.

The Bobcats? Phil Mickelson.

Just something to ponder.

Cat-theotherwhitemeat · Post by **Cat-theotherwhitemeat** » Fri Jul 16, 2004 8:49 am

catatac wrote:Just thought of this today. The Grizzlies are the Tiger Woods of golf. In a slump? Not really, but it depends on your expectations. Not number one anymore but around 4 or 5. Doesn't enter games\tourneys anymore expecting to blow opponents away. Has taken a back-seat to Phil Mickelson lately.

The Bobcats? Phil Mickelson.

Just something to ponder.

That just may be the best compilment I've heard a Cat fan give the Grizzlies ever.

CARDIAC_CATS · Post by **CARDIAC_CATS** » Fri Jul 16, 2004 9:10 am

catatac wrote:Just thought of this today. The Grizzlies are the Tiger Woods of golf. In a slump? Not really, but it depends on your expectations. Not number one anymore but around 4 or 5. Doesn't enter games\tourneys anymore expecting to blow opponents away. Has taken a back-seat to Phil Mickelson lately.

The Bobcats? Phil Mickelson.

Just something to ponder.

Who is Hauck then? Tigers Caddy?

Maybe thats why Tiger is in a slump then, letting his caddy pick his clubs for him.

Its 50 yards to the pin, Hauck doesn't select a pitching wedge for Tiger, but instead picks out the driver for a hail mary run option play. The opponent wasn't expecting that

Cat Pride · Post by **Cat Pride** » Fri Jul 16, 2004 9:35 am

Now that is funny Cardiac...absolute gut buster!

jagur1 · Post by **jagur1** » Fri Jul 16, 2004 10:06 am

Let me get this straight BH 9 wins last year. Mr. Clean 7 wins. Mr. Clean may know how to coach against the Griz, it's everybody else he needs to improve on.

Cat-theotherwhitemeat · Post by **Cat-theotherwhitemeat** » Fri Jul 16, 2004 10:09 am

jagur1 wrote:Let me get this straight BH 9 wins last year. Mr. Clean 7 wins. Mr. Clean may know how to coach against the Griz, it's everybody else he needs to improve on.

Now that's a good point. A lot of you Cat fans have been very critical of Hauck, yet he won two more games than Kramer. And, in his first year as head coach, which typically is the toughest for any coach. hmmmm

Cat Pride · Post by **Cat Pride** » Fri Jul 16, 2004 10:22 am

I wouldnt trade Krames for Hauck any day of the week. I think that Hauck inherited an incredibly good and deep team. One thing he did do a great job in last year was handling the injuries situation. I mean Samson/Hartman started against Idaho last year...give me a break!

Lets leave it at this...how many close games did Hauck win last year? Of the 9 games his team did win, how many of those required his educated football mind to actually strategize, gameplan, scheme, and make adjustments to help his team earn that victory? That may be his biggest weakness, making gametime adjustments. But, like people have said, it was his first year at HC - then again, I thought he had a veteran staff to help nurture Hauck through this stage?

But hey, I am just a slouch who is passionate about the game, I am certainly not a coach. But I know a good one when I see one, and I'd take half the coaches in the Big Sky before I'd take Hauck. Now as a recruiter...that is another story, Hauck certainly knows what he's doing in that department.

hokeyfine · Post by **hokeyfine** » Fri Jul 16, 2004 10:35 am

there is absolutely no way that ANYBODY who was head coach of the griz last year shouldn't have won 9 games. That team had the talent to carry any inept coach and make them look great. papa bear started with an edsel and left it a caddy. dennehy kept it in drive, but couldn't make it up the hill. glenn held on for the ride, and hauck has, so far, stayed in the back seat. the griz have the car, the only thing they have to worry about is who's driving it.

jagur1 · Post by **jagur1** » Fri Jul 16, 2004 10:46 am

Even you guys know how great the Griz are.

Just remember that the next time your spouting off at the mouth.

Cat Pride · Post by **Cat Pride** » Fri Jul 16, 2004 10:59 am

That's the best you can do in a debate about coaches? Just one post ago you said Hauck was great, Kramer no.

Well, if the Griz are that great and so is Hauck, then why only 9-4 with a first round loss at home no less.

I do think the Griz are very good, nobody is disputing that. Their downfall will be poor coaching and a fragile QB. If Ochs is healthy all season, and Hauck lets his coordinators do their job, the Griz should challenge for the NC. However, if Ochs goes down and Hauck tries to "outthink" his counterparts and his ego gets in the way of his coordinators, then I can almost hear the boo-birds coming out at Washington/Bobcat stadium.

Cat-theotherwhitemeat · Post by **Cat-theotherwhitemeat** » Fri Jul 16, 2004 11:00 am

hokeyfine wrote:there is absolutely no way that ANYBODY who was head coach of the griz last year shouldn't have won 9 games. That team had the talent to carry any inept coach and make them look great. papa bear started with an edsel and left it a caddy. dennehy kept it in drive, but couldn't make it up the hill. glenn held on for the ride, and hauck has, so far, stayed in the back seat. the griz have the car, the only thing they have to worry about is who's driving it.

I like that analogy

Remember when you were 15 and you first got your license? It took a while, but you got the hang of it and now look at ya....you're cutting people off in traffic and flipping the bird

Cat Pride · Post by **Cat Pride** » Fri Jul 16, 2004 11:01 am

And you Griz fans better hope Hauck doesnt get his license taken away from him.

Cat-theotherwhitemeat · Post by **Cat-theotherwhitemeat** » Fri Jul 16, 2004 11:03 am

Cat Pride wrote:That's the best you can do in a debate about coaches? Just one post ago you said Hauck was great, Kramer no.

Well, if the Griz are that great and so is Hauck, then why only 9-4 with a first round loss at home no less.

I do think the Griz are very good, nobody is disputing that. Their downfall will be poor coaching and a fragile QB. If Ochs is healthy all season, and Hauck lets his coordinators do their job, the Griz should challenge for the NC. However, if Ochs goes down and Hauck tries to "outthink" his counterparts and his ego gets in the way of his coordinators, then I can almost hear the boo-birds coming out at Washington/Bobcat stadium.

I agree with everything with the exeption of his coordinators. The offense coordinator, IMO, hasn't shown me anything other than a tendency to play too conservative at the wrong times.

Cat Pride · Post by **Cat Pride** » Fri Jul 16, 2004 11:32 am

That is a good point, but who was truly calling the plays? Was it the OC or HC? Or was Hauck strong arming Phenecie to call what Hauck wanted called?

Actually, I think Kramer and Hauck are pretty similar. Both have enormous egos, say stupid things to the press, and are possibly blinded on some field desicions as a result of those egos. Kramer definitely has gone through his growing pains at MSU, but I think turned a corner last year. Hauck is going through some growing pains right now as well, its just that his team was one of the most talented in the country, where Kramer inherited one of the worst teams in the history of the BSC. Obviously first year results would vary immensely.

Still, today, I take Kramer every time over Hauck, as I do with half the Big Sky coaches. The jury is still out on Hauck, and only time will tell how good a coach he can become. But until then, he has a lot of growing up to do as a coach and person.

Cat-theotherwhitemeat · Post by **Cat-theotherwhitemeat** » Fri Jul 16, 2004 11:42 am

Cat Pride wrote:That is a good point, but who was truly calling the plays? Was it the OC or HC? Or was Hauck strong arming Phenecie to call what Hauck wanted called?

Actually, I think Kramer and Hauck are pretty similar. Both have enormous egos, say stupid things to the press, and are possibly blinded on some field desicions as a result of those egos. Kramer definitely has gone through his growing pains at MSU, but I think turned a corner last year. Hauck is going through some growing pains right now as well, its just that his team was one of the most talented in the country, where Kramer inherited one of the worst teams in the history of the BSC. Obviously first year results would vary immensely.

Still, today, I take Kramer every time over Hauck, as I do with half the Big Sky coaches. The jury is still out on Hauck, and only time will tell how good a coach he can become. But until then, he has a lot of growing up to do as a coach and person.

Totally agree!! Especially with their ego's being larger than life. However, I don't know too many coaches who don't have enormous ego's. Hauck did say some things after games that didn't sit with me very well. (i.e. the Cat game and the NDSU game). I'm not really high on Hauck but as you say, the jury is still out. I can't decide if I like Kramer or not. The way I decide if I like a coach is whether or not I'd like to play for them myself (back in the days of course).

JahGriz · Post by **JahGriz** » Fri Jul 16, 2004 12:02 pm

I'm with you ctowm. The jury is still out on Hauck. And really, what did anybody expect. It was his first year as a HC, and the first year this staff has worked together as a unit.
I wasn't happy with some of the play calling. And I've heard it both ways on who was really calling the plays, both from fairly reliable sources. So who knows.
As far as the Griz being a talented team, I agree. But, it is not as if their talent streched to every position and we didn't have weak spots. We were young and thin at DB, without question. And even Vernon didn't play as well as he has in the past. Our LB's weren't exactly standouts. Meyers was the fastest, but was only around 200 lbs. And he wasn't a burner like Hawthorne or even Utterback are now. Our LBs lateral movement was weak overall, and they just didn't have much speed overall.
On O, our WR's are pretty solid, but there certainly was no Joe Douglas' or Etu Moldens on the team.
So, it wasn't as if Hauck and co were coming into a team that had everything. And it was far from one of the more talented Griz teams in the past.

Cat Pride · Post by **Cat Pride** » Fri Jul 16, 2004 12:08 pm

Having met Kramer, I can tell you that face to face with the guy, you cant help but like him. He is positive, energetic, smart, and seems genuine. But that is probably the case with most coaches. He has a very likable personality, and is a great speaker - besides the use of his "big words". Kramer has done wonderful things for bringing back the fan base to MSU as well as a ton of booster $$$. I think he is hard on his kids, physically, mentally, and scholastically, and I wouldnt want it any other way. I havent met a player of his from MSU who wouldnt run through a wall for the guy. I say that keeping in mind the fact that he has run off his fair share of kids thruogh the years.

I didnt like Kramer at first....he's grown on me, and has done some great things for MSU football despite the fact that his overall record is sadly 19-29. Now, if he can stop degrading players in public (that has to be reserved for private conversation) can tone down some of his exaggerations of player potentials (Marcel Dunn, Azimi, Jimmy Beal anyone), and please coach, PLEASE! win the %*$#! Homecoming game!

Helcat72 · Post by **Helcat72** » Fri Jul 16, 2004 12:48 pm

I was wondering...how many of the friz coaches come from winning programs? I know they have a lot of experience. Is it a money thing?Except for Kwiatkowski and Bailey, Kramer seems to like to work with younger "trainees" rather than experienced coaches. Maybe they're the only ones that will work for next to nothing.

theblackgecko · Post by **theblackgecko** » Fri Jul 16, 2004 12:57 pm

Cat-towm wrote:Actually, I think Kramer and Hauck are pretty similar. Both have enormous egos, say stupid things to the press, and are possibly blinded on some field desicions as a result of those egos.

I chalk up Kramer's bulletin board material as part of who he is. He consistenly says it regardelss of situation. I contrast that to coach Potera, the old women's bb coach, who consistently would talk smack against the Griz after winning in Bozeman, then get embarassed in Dahlberg arena. Kramer says things that entertain the press, but don't rile anyone who understands how we talks.
The one quote from Kramer that really bothers me is the "No harm, no foul" quote after the EWU loss last year. An 8-4 (as opposed to 7-5) record would have certainly changed the playoff structure. The Bobs might have been able to get a home playoff game, and might have kept NAU out of the playoffs with that win. While I realize that teams need to reload after every game and not dwell upon the past, it made it seem like Kramer didn't care about the football game.

Cat-theotherwhitemeat · Post by **Cat-theotherwhitemeat** » Fri Jul 16, 2004 1:12 pm

tbg, I didn't write that

Bobcat\Grizzly Analogy

Bobcat\Grizzly Analogy

Re: Bobcat\Grizzly Analogy

Re: Bobcat\Grizzly Analogy